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William
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10/02/2002
15:17:27
Subject: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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What can you do to notify your people in Brazil about Luis Inacio da
Silva?
Castro and China are making in roads to get a hold on Central and South
America Countries.
They will do to those countries what they have done to Cuba and China.
They have gained control of Venezuela.

The following article appeared on Newsmax.com on Sept. 21st, 2002.

Please inform the news media and Silva opponent about Silva.
I pray to God that Silva does not get elected.

Sincerely,

William J. Howell
______________________________________________________________
Voice of America Silent as Terrorist Threat Looms South of the Border
Wes Vernon, NewsMax.com
Saturday, Sept. 21, 2002

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/20/204632.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2002/9/20/204632.shtml

WASHINGTON

A Castroite with extensive ties to international terrorism is leading
in
the polls in Brazils current presidential campaign, and thanks to
Clinton holdovers in Washington, the U.S. is not able to reach the
Brazilian people with the truth about the front runner and the dangers
he represents to his country and the entire Western Hemisphere.

If Luis Inacio da Silva is elected next month, it will add Brazil to
Fidel Castros Cuba and Hugo Chavezs Venezuela as nations right in our
own backyard who pose a threat to the security of the post-9/11 United
States.

Whats more ironic is that several months ago, the Voice of Americas
governing board made a decision to cut its broadcasts to Brazil in
Portuguese, the dominant language in that country. That means that just
as terrorist-friendly regimes increase in this hemisphere, the U.S.
voice is muted.

"It was a preposterous decision, stormed Robert Schadler, a onetime
chief of staff at the U.S. Information Agency, predecessor to the
Broadcasting Board of Governors (BBG), now dominated by Clintonites,
which presently oversees VOA. Schadler also formerly held a variety of
responsible positions at VOA itself.

"Brazil, I think, is the seventh largest country in the world, added
Schadler, now a leader of the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation,
"Its clearly the dominant country in South America.

In an interview with NewsMax.com, Schadler said, "A Voice of America
that gives an American perspective on America and international issues
[in Brazil] is absolutely vital and very inexpensive.

Writing in the Washington Times August 7, Hudson Institute Senior
Fellow
Constantine C. Menges said if da Silva is elected, "the results could
include a radical regime in Brazil re-establishing its nuclear weapon
and ballistic missile programs, developing close links to state
sponsors
of terrorism such as Cuba, Iraq, and Iran, and participating in the
destabilization of neighboring democracies.

Menges, a former member of the National Security Council, points out
that this could lead 300 million people in six countries coming under
the control of radical anti-U.S. regimes and the possibility that
thousands of newly indoctrinated terrorists might try to attack the
United States from Latin America.

"With Mr. Castros support, Menges writes, "Mr. da Silva founded the
Sao Paulo forum in 1990 as an annual meeting of communist and other
radical terrorist and political organizations from Latin America,
Europe, and the Middle East. This has been used to coordinate terrorist
and political activities around the world and against the United
States.

The Sao Paulo Forum is still very much in business and pursuing its
goals. Its last meeting was held in Havana, Cuba in December 2001. That
meeting sharply condemned the Bush administrations leadership in the
war against international terrorism after 9/11.

When Menges talks about the threat from a Brazil under da Silvas
leadership, he is not merely theorizing. The Brazilian presidential
candidate has said Brazil should have nuclear weapons and move closer
to
China, which has actively courted the Brazilian military.

Free Congress Foundation President Paul Weyrich notes that the Clinton
loyalists dominating the BBG have persistently thwarted the objectives
of the Bush administration. "even deciding to practically shut down
broadcasting in Latin America without consulting Assistant Secretary of
State Otto Reich, who argued it was important to maintain a U.S.
presence on the airwaves there.

Schadler told NewsMax that he has good reason to suspect that budget
considerations drove this move.
"I believe&. that this issue was tied to the idea that they need to
have
a major initiative in the Middle East with music [programming], he
said.

That raises another issue that can backfire against the U.S. that
NewsMax.com will deal with it in separate report.
Suffice it to say that the terrorist threat against the United States
is
increasing in Latin America, and the U.S. voice is missing in action,
so
to speak.

On Thursday, NewsMax.com e-mailed the International Broadcasting
Bureauthe sister organization of VOA with an inquiry. The spokesman
was
referred to us by the State Department under whose umbrella both the
VOA
and IBB operate at the direction of the Broadcasting Board of
Governors.
The question read as follows:

"It is my understanding Portuguese language broadcasts to Brazil were
cancelled due to budget constraints. Now that a Castroite is up in the
polls to lead that country in the upcoming election &. in hindsight,
should those broadcasts to Brazil have been given a greater priority?
Will they be reinstated?

We gave the IBB a deadline to respond, with over 24 hours to come up
with an answer. As we went to press late Friday, no reply had been
received.




Patinho
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10/02/2002
16:49:09
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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I was reading an article stating that if he does get elected - Along with Venezuela, Cuba, and possibly Brazil.... It is already being referred to as a possible "Latin Axis".

kind of freaky, huh? Just food for thought.


eurokid
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10/02/2002
17:31:22
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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No he isnt and dont be silly. Lula will probably win, but that doesn´t make him Fidel just cause some right winged dock says so, jeeze, i think u North Americans are getting paranoid.


Sick
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10/02/2002
21:36:47
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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"Paranoid" is putting it mildly. The cold war warriors are still around and they miss the old days of coups, meddling in elections, and "disappearing" people so much that they are trying to turn the war on terrorism into a new cold war. Ya know, Comm..err terrorist threats everywhere. Think of all that defense spending they are gonna need now. It's obvious that anti-American candidates are doing quite well in South America. Gee, I wonder why? Could it be because of the games these cold war warriors played with the lives of South Americans up through the 1980s? Nahhhh, couldn't be. Perhaps South Americans WANT to be anti-America (US), ever think of that?


brazilloverboy
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10/03/2002
21:43:50
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro wannabe! lol
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First and foremost Lula can't be Fidel and both nations are totally different, Cuba is a small island and Brazil is almost a continent.

Second, if there's any 'Anti-American' in Brazil (or anywhere else) we can thank to Mr Bush's polemical decisions and you AMERICANS be sure the 'Anti-Americans' or Anti-Foreigners are the vast minority here.

Third, there is no chance of Brazil becoming a threat to the security of the USA, neither, to any other country that is surrouding us. This is a pacific nation with a blessed people that will get through this speculation and -in fact- crisis as we've gone through many others (this one is piece of cake).

In my view, the interest in narrowing the trading agreements is larger to the US (of course, Brazil is interested, too), because neither Chile nor Mexico have the power to stimulate a massive ''entrance'' of US within the Latin countries, but, Brazil can.

Also, Brazil can play an important role on narrowing the relations between China (that has been growing fast, recently) and many other countries where the US have not an ``acceptance``. Moreover, it is good to remember that this role can be further than commercial relations within countries, but, also diplomatical.

My candidate for Oct 6th is Jose Serra, whose project and ideas are somewhat alike to what I'd like to see on my country.

From now up to Monday the country stops and everyone waits anxiously for the results.

What I do hope and believe is that no matter the coming president, he has to keep the progress and -of course- improve the many faults that are still there, but, not a change as if it were a new place.

I love the world and its people, including Americans. However, if there's a man whose ideas and decisions are leading the whole WORLD to a tension, this man is not our President but, yours.

Have a good day! Hope you come soon to Brazil and enjoy this wonderful land. You're all welcome.

Reynaldo


Bambino
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10/04/2002
03:07:48
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Come on! I have heard about "anti-Americans" in Brazil and elsewhere, long before Bush 2.0...

The man almost died from eating snack food. If anything... his weak image encourages other countries to "mess" with us. He's goofy.

Lastly, do you really think Hitler would have been elected if everyone thought he was gonna go nuts and massacre people?? I think not.

Anyway... God Bless America... and Brazil.


Donna Troy
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10/05/2002
17:14:23
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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LOL...

I wonder how many brazilians ever heard the "Voice of America"... LOL...

It is not being missed, I can assure you that.


John Miller
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10/07/2002
09:19:40
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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You cold war dinasaurs are going away just as Brasil is doing away with its dinasaurs like Brisola, Jader, etc.
Give up with this pathetic scare mongering tactics. You tried the same thing on Australia in the early 70's with the Whitlam government. Get a life.
Brasil (and Lula) has no more interest in failed economic/political strategies like communism, but certainly a 3rd way agenda needs to found around the crippling debt piled up by the IMF throwing money at Brasil debt. The pension system needs serious reform and the banks need to reign in borrowings, but most important, Brasil needs to export more, and be given FAIR access to US markets to enable it export. The recent steel and continuing agricultural trade barriers imposed by this Jurassic Bush administration are a mockery of what the US economy has traditionally stood for; free and open trade.





Kenn
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10/07/2002
12:06:11
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Brazil should be able to import more into the USA, I agree, but Brazil is notoriously tight on anything coming into Brazil.. Import duties can be as much as 100%. If Brazil wants easier access in the markets of the US then Brazil should loosen it's death grip on it's own import restrictions and high import taxes..


plamatika
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10/08/2002
04:50:32
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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God, I really hope he is. That way we'd stop being America's little puppy dog and do things for ourselves. There's enough of everything in Brazil for us to be quite happy, including LAND!

Who the hell needs America interfering with their business (that's all they do anyway)?

So, I really hope he's the new Fidel, because Fidel is a good man, and maybe people in Cuba can't wear the latest gear, but they have a roof over their heads.


Randy
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10/08/2002
07:41:14
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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People in Cuba have a roof over their heads??? You must not know a lot about Cubans! Castro is a dictator...when is the last time you have heard good things from a country with a dictator as the political head of state??? Please! America only gets in the way??? Maybe you should read how many billions American companies have in Brazil..what would happen if they all pulled out? I love Brazil...I hate when I read America-bashers in Brazil...I love being able to have a choice to buy guarana and pao de queijo here in America...you should be happy to be able to purchase American products in Brazil. A global economy is a wonderful thing.


eurokid
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10/08/2002
12:20:19
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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The only people in the world who has a problem with Fidel Castro is United States of America. Europe and most of the world have no problem with him. Neither should you, SO WHAT you have a communist in your back yard. It is a small Island and the USA could bomb it twenty times over if they wanted to, they even have a base there!!!. What i am disgusted over is the trade enbargo on Cuba, its completely pointless and causes unnessary harm to the people of cuba. The whole world knows it, why cant you!!

ps.Even the United Nations has condemned the US embargo against Cuba.


USCIT
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10/08/2002
22:12:40
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Hmmm. Seems as if a few people need to develop a little better backgound on the U.S. of America and how the system operates. First of all John Miller, the U.S. does not stand for free and OPEN trade and never has. Do we appear to be idiots? Do you think this country leads the world economical structure with stupidity? The U.S. stand for free and FAIR trade, but not open trade. When a country uses near slave tactics and pays wages below any reasonable poverty level, thereby producing products at a totally ridiculous price by comparison to a country that does pay a living wage and at least makes an effort to raise the economic level of the poor, the U.S. is not going to BUY from that country and compete with its own businesses.

Nor is the U.S. so stupid as to buy billions of dollars worth of product from a country that perhaps buys a few millions in return. That's a thing called balance of trade. If Brazil wants to sell to the U.S., they had better find things needed that are manufactured here to buy in return. Otherwise, we'll go to a country that does know what balance of trade means.

I'm sure the U.S. wants much better relations with Brazil. The question is, does Brazil want BETTER relations with the U.S., or just more.




Patinho
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10/08/2002
23:45:01
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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"Fidel is a good man"?? Who the hell are you kidding? I suppose he is such a good man and dictator that the Cubans who swim 90 miles through shark infested waters to get to Florida are just plain crazy.

I have decided that I really don't care much about this whole "Lula" situation. It's none of my business anyway... Just as long as I can still make trips there to visit friends and have good times without fear that I am gonna get into trouble simply for being there. Good luck with your elections Brazil.


plasmatika
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10/09/2002
02:19:44
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Yes, Fidel is a good man, he respects his people and his people adore him. Have you ever been to Cuba? Have you met the Cubans who are happy to live there? If America hadn't deprived Cuba and imposed all sorts of restrictions, things would be much better there.

The Cubans who leave Cuba do so following an empty dream. The desire to buy MacDonald's and to be able to watch shit on television. And to work as a janitor in a school... Except, of course for the 0.00000001% who actually achieve the 'american dream'.

Americans (read the government, some americans are aware of reality, not what's on the news) are the new Romans. They think they own the world and that its at their disposal. Well, if they carry on like that it's going to backfire. Every body in the world is pissed off with America, except for Tony Blair the lap dog.


plasmatika
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10/09/2002
02:23:22
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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By the way, if American investors pulled out of Brazil we might be able to save our environment. The only people who benefit from Corporations dirty millions are the corporations themselves. Yes, a few people might get jobs, but nowhere near enough. If you know anything you know that most brazilians live in misery, even though there's more than enough land for everybody to subsist on!!!! And who owns the land, and who's ruining our rain forest? I'll give you one guess.


USCIT
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10/09/2002
21:49:28
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Well Plasmatika, you might want to read one of your local newspapers. It seems that if Lulu wins one of his first tasks is going to be to create a special envoy to treat with the U.S.. Yes, the hated U.S. of America. The reason is he needs a 15 BILLION dollar loan to get his government going. The problem is, the U.S. doesn't think it really wants to stick another 15 billion dollars into Brazil. But you had better hope the U.S. does not pull out. The predictions for that are not all that promising for Brazil. Like maybe another Argentina? Or maybe you can borrow from them. Or Castro. I'm sure someone will eagerly step in.


USCIT
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10/09/2002
21:54:34
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Oh yes, I forgot to mention. If you promise to stop shooting them, we'll send you tree huggers by the truck load for your environment. We have them coming out of our ears here. But the safety record down there for the people who do try to help the environment isn't really very good. Improving, granted. But it does need more work, from your end.


Patinho
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10/09/2002
22:58:55
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Plasmatika---

Once again, what world do you live in? The only happy Cubans I have ever met are my brother-in-law's family in Miami. The only reason they are "happy" is because he has left Cuba and the fascist dictator that rules it.
The poverty you speak of is caused by Castro. And the "restictions" you speak of are Castros own fault when he overthrew the government and ran off all the American investors. Not to mention the whole "Cuban Missle Crisis" of the 60's.
I love the Cuban culture, and I hope to visit Cuba someday... so I hold nothing against it's people. How can you say the people "adore" him, when they risk death and imprisonment to escape his grasp of corruption?
The American Dream you speak of usually consists of Cubans seeking employment in which they can earn more than 4 pennies a day for their work. This is easily achieved in the US.
Maybe America is the "New Romans". So what.. I was born here.. that's not my fault. So.. if it will end someday.. so be it. I will enjoy it while it lasts.
And who is ruining the Rain forest? Brazilians are. Plain and simple. Who sells the forest? Who cuts it down? Brazilians. You can't call the buyer guilty without calling the seller guilty as well.
Look, I don't like to argue. I come here to discuss interesting topics and learn new things about a culture I love. But when I hear such an ignorant comment such as "Castro is a good man"... it makes me even more eager to return to Brazil to find out what the hell you are smoking.


USCIT
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10/10/2002
00:12:45
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Hey Patinho, Your postings are good. Am now curious as to what you would like to see for a subject in the forum in the way of an interesting topic. You wanna start a new thread? Maybe get a positive one going.


Anonymous
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10/10/2002
02:32:07
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Oh, I've really started something here haven't I? Americans really seem to live in world of their own. Look, you may have opinions about Brazil, hey, some of you are brazilian, but I need to put the record straight about things that (at least to me) are obvious, but not everybody else has the same type of exposure (not because they are stupid, but merely due to circumstances).

"The problem is, the U.S. doesn't think it really wants to stick another 15 billion dollars into Brazil. But you had better hope the U.S. does not pull out. The predictions for that are not all that promising for Brazil. Like maybe another Argentina? Or maybe you can borrow from them. Or Castro. I'm sure someone will eagerly step in."
The USA will always stick money in here (unfortunately), there are too many resources (and very cheap labour) for them (and I mean them, not you, this is your government we're speaking about, not you, as you can gather by the tone of other messages, some people turn the whole discussion into a personal thing).
And if America were not to put any money into Brazil (they always get back more of what they put in in interest payments alone!) that might be a good thing. Just like children grow up, so should nations...

USCIT :
"Oh yes, I forgot to mention. If you promise to stop shooting them, we'll send you tree huggers by the truck load for your environment. We have them coming out of our ears here. But the safety record down there for the people who do try to help the environment isn't really very good. Improving, granted. But it does need more work, from your end."
Hey, I didn't realise Bush had joined the discussion. If I promise to stop shooting them, you'll send tree huggers? You're extremely powerful, aren't you? Our safety record is bad because we have bad governments and we have had them for as long as I can remember. Lula is the first half-decent human being to (hopefully) take power. And our people are amongst the most peaceful in the world, only there's only so much shit and poverty and humilliation one can take before snapping. It's our government who f**** everything up.

Patinho :
"Look, I don't like to argue. I come here to discuss interesting topics and learn new things about a culture I love. But when I hear such an ignorant comment such as "Castro is a good man"... "
Calling someone ignorant because they have a different view point from yours is about as ignorant as one can be! Some people hate living in Cuba, others don't. Just like some people love Bush and others hate him. It's called having an opinion, and they tend to be different. And I stil think Castro is indeed a good man, no matter what you say. At least he doesn't go around bullying other countries into submission. And I'm not saying Castro's way is perfect. I guess you must have grown up being brainwashed by America propaganda. You might want to read more alternative media. Have you ever heard of Jonh Pilger? He writes some hard stuff about governments from all over the world...

And, look Patinho, I don't want to argue either, I never was, I was merely stating my opinion, you're the one who got upset!


And yes, it was the Brazilian government who sold out to America, which is why we need a government who cares about the people, not the money (although I never heard of such government just yet...). I think most of you need to make a clear distinction between government and the people. The American government pissed off a lot of people out there, 3000 people died in the WTC.
Then the American government went after Osama, they never got him, but around 3000 innocent Afghan civilians died... That's they way it goes, the government does what it thinks it must do, and innocent people pay for it...

I better stop before I bore you all to death. To some of you : please stop taking things so personally and open your eyes!




plasmatika
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10/10/2002
03:00:57
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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p.s. the message above was from plasmatika...


plasmatika
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10/10/2002
03:10:58
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Oh, yes, another thing (referring to a previous posting), I actually live in England and the grass here ain't too bad, so if you go back to Brasil to find out what I'm smoking you're not going to find me there. And the English media is more unbiased than the American (mind you, not by much) and so we get a clearer picture.


USCIT
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10/11/2002
01:35:06
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Hey Anonymous guest. Good post. I enjoyed your response.

I do take exception to people saying the U.S. is fouling the Amazon. Hate to harp on this, but it isn't the U.S. that's doing it. Its Brazilians. The U.S. buys the product because its made available for sale. If the U.S. didn't buy it, Japan probably would. Japan is very timber hungry. They just find the shipping costs much lower to buy Alaskan timber, and for the U.S. to buy Brazilian. Since its offered.

As you also mention, and we are aware, you have had some bad governments. From what I can discover reading the news, Lulu might make Brazil a good president. I'm not knocking him. I actually hope he is the answer to Brazil's problem.

I do take exception to people saying Castro is a good man. He took over his country and ran it with terrorist and torture tactics. That is documented and well known. He's eased off in recent years, but that does not change his record.

As to being powerful enough to send tree huggers, that was said tongue in cheek and should have been easily recognized for such. In other words, the U.S. has an abundance of people who are trying to save the world (and the Amazon) not trying to destroy it.

As to the loan. That is a very definite problem. And on a far larger scale than most might be thinking. The U.S. government does not want to put money in Brazil. So stated in many articles. However, if the Brazilian economy were to fail, the debt load is so high that the repercussions would echo down through ALL of the world markets. (Just the uncertainty has devalued the Chiliean currency.) It would throw many countries that are already on the edge into a recession of their own and, they at least fear, that it would completely stall any economic recovery currently making progress within the U.S..

As to the interest. You might look a little more deeply into that. The U.S. does not get it. At least in full. The actual loan comes from the IMF. The International Monetary Fund, and is merely backed or guaranteed by the U.S.. Therefore, the interest paid goes to the IMF. About the best the U.S. can hope for is to get its money back from the IMF with a very few percentage points. This is providing Brazil does make a turn around and pay its debt. If it does not, then the U.S. is out 15 billion bucks. So far the record has not been all that good. I'm not blaming or knocking anything. Just stating well known facts.

As to Lulu, I personally hope he makes it. He just might turn the country around. If elected, he has many problems facing him. If he is successful, he'll be an International hero. If he is not, just another bad government.

One other thing, in an article in the Washington Post 2 days ago it was said that Lulu intended to make U.S. bashing unfashionable. Not as it has been in past administrations. Its been all too easy to blame the U.S. for the ills and not take self responsibility. The thing that 'might' help the average citizen of Brazil is for them to understand the U.S. is actually a friend. Not a foe. The U.S. is not out to harm or take advantage of Brazil. You have problems with U.S. corporations in your country. Hell, we have problems with U.S. corporations in THIS country. Corporations are corporations. U.S. or otherwise. The thing needed there are reliable courts that will keep them in check. And that, again, has to come from Brazilians.

Good luck.







Vargas
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10/11/2002
09:19:04
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Eurokid, stuff it.


Patinho
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10/12/2002
01:09:40
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Plasmatika---

you are right about respecting other people's opinions. I have always considered myself to be one the most "open" persons I know, and it goes against my own nature to say that you are ignorant for expressing your opinion. I sincerely apologize. Didn't mean to argue.
But I still disagree about Castro. Although I like to believe that I can see through most of the "American Propaganda"..... maybe there is alot of "propaganda" because he threatened to KILL us. Has he ever threatened to do that to Brazil??
Food for thought.
Bye! look forward to your reply.


Hilmar
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10/13/2002
13:01:00
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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I live in Brazil since i was born :) 26 spins of Earth

I cant take it anymore, nobody can... we could be a better place to live but 8 years of last government just ripped out our hopes...

Lula has majority of votes, and this means we want changes

dont pray for that, cause we got million here praying for education, food, health and security...


Brent
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10/13/2002
14:48:20
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Himler, I don't understand. Are you pro-Lula? Do you think he will help Brazil find her former glory?


Tina
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10/13/2002
17:45:48
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Bom, vou escrever em portugues...

Mas fico me perguntando o que voces (de fora) conhecem do Lula ou até de comunismo. Não vou discutir sobre comunismo, afinal pensamos de forma bem diferente.

Sobre Lula, só vou falar uma coisa, ele era um líder sindical, que foi um dos responsáveis pela consolidação de um partido (PT), que sempre participou de forma legal e sob bases democráticas. Então, falar que ele é comunista, simplesmente pelo discurso, não cola.

E mais, o Brasil possui 3 poderes, e instituiçoes democráticas fortes. Então por mais radical seja o próximo presidente ainda haverá um congresso.

E mais, o Brasil foi governado durante 8 anos por um partido chamado PSDB.. partido do Serra. Votar no Lula representa (p/ mim) muito mais uma mudança política, o que só trará benefícios, já que aqueles que foram responsáveis pelo agravamento de vários problemas do Brasil, terão que sair do executivo.

Mudança social ou economica, infelismente, eu não acredito que ocorrerá, independente de quem for o presidente. Fruto de uma má administração de 8 anos de duraçao...




USCIT
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10/13/2002
18:57:46
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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For those who don't read Portuguese, the gist of what Tina says above which I got from a mechanical tranlator is:

"I am going to write in portugues..

But I stayed myself asking what voces (of outside) they know of the Squid or to of communism. I am not going to discuss about communism, after all we think of well peculiar form.

About Squid, alone I go speak a thing, he was a union leader, that was an of the responsible by the consolidation of a departure (PT), that always he participated of lawful form and under democratic bases. Then, he speak that he is communist, simply by the talk, does not he bond.

And more, Brazil I possessed 3 you will be able to, and instituiçoes democratic fortresses. Then for more more radical be the near president still will have a congress.

And more, Brazil was governed during 8 years by a departure called PSDB.. departure of the Mountain Range. It vote in the Squid represents (p/ me) a lot more a political change, what alone will bring benefits, since those that they were responsible by the agravamento of several problems of Brazil, they will have that leave of the executive.

Social change or economica, infelismente, I do not believe that will occur, independent whose will go the president. Fruit of a bad administration of 8 years of duraçao.."


plasmatika
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10/14/2002
01:34:42
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Arent' these mechanical translators just brilliant? I bet that's what they use at the ONU (i.e. UN) conventions!

Patinho, I'm glad you're a sensible person and I guess we're just going to have to agree to disagre! I'm sorry but Castro never threatened to kill the Americans, it was, once again, one of those mechanical translators misundertandings...

Currently shocked about bombing in Indonesia... The world is not looking too good at the moment.

Viva Lula!


Carlos Abreu
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12/29/2002
15:07:46
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Não, ele não chega nem aos pés, se fosse igual, provavelmente o povo brasileiro estaria em boas mãos.Para os bostas burgueses que escreveram nesta merda de pesquisa falando mal do "castrocomunismo" uma menssagem: voceis são a minoria, estão apenas pensando na roupa que lhes tapam o cú, não leram nunca nada sobre o que era Cuba antes de 1959, não entendem a verdadeira ação da "democracia" nos países latino e sul americanos, enfim, a sua opinião é forrada de preconceito e americanismos.


Anonymous
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12/29/2002
20:06:10
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Amigos,

A informação que tenho sobre Cuba antes da Revolução era a da existência de uma sociedade voltada para a monocultura exportadora, o turismo e o jogo, atividades econômicas capitaneadas por norte-americanos. Valendo-se da insatisfação popular oriunda da miséria extrema, Fidel alçou-se a condição de ditador, estatizando os faustos negócios capitalistas. Sabemos que não há liberdade de expressão em Cuba e a vida do povo é muito difícil, todavia as condições de saúde e educação no país são melhores que as do Brasil. Como explicar que uma nação tão pequena e com poucos recursos dê ao seu povo melhores condições que um gigante riquíssimo em recursos humanos e naturais? É forçoso dizer que há aspectos positivos no regime cubano, portanto. Se compararmos Cuba a outros países caribenhos, é inegável os benefícios socias alcançados com a revolução. Não obstante, é imperioso que a democracia em Cuba seja instalada, pois de nada adianta razoáveis condições sociais sem liberdade. Contudo, Fidel utiliza o embargo norte-americano como justificativa a sua permanência no poder. De fato, como podem os Estados Unidos comerciar com a comunista China e negar fazê-lo com Cuba? O senão da Revolução é, certamente, a ditadura cristalizada de Fidel. Creio que uma abertura comercial iniciada pelos Estados Unidos seria a gênese da tão necessária abertura política.
Quanto a comparação entre Fidel e Lula, esta é descabida. Lula é um democrata convicto que alcançou o poder pelo voto direto do povo do Brasil. Fidel é um ditador, embora seu carisma magnetize uma grande parcela da população cubana e uma miríade de fãs ao redor do globo.

Abraços,
Alex Furtado.


Lucas
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12/29/2002
20:25:28
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Se o Maradona, aquele cheirador de carreira, que poderia ter ido pra qualquer lugar do mundo pra se tratar, foi pra Cuba.. Hum.. Isso significa alguma coisa.



Pedro
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12/30/2002
06:32:45
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Para Annonymus:

Você repete os mesmos equívocos que foram repetidos por toda uma geração. A Cuba de antes de Castro era um país de 3o mundo, mas acima da média dos países sul-americanos. Em 1958, por exemplo, 80% dos cubanos eram alfabetizados. Fidel partiu de uma infra-estrutura que já existia.

Hoje em dia os padrões de saúde e educação cubanos são superiores aos brasileiros, mas inferiores, por exemplo, aos do Uruguai e da Argentina. Mais ou menos a mesma situação que já havia em 1958.

A economia cubana, hoje em dia, é tão frágil e dependente quanto o era antes de Castro. Produz basicamente os mesmos itens básicos daquela época.

Cuba foi o grande mito da nossa geração, mas no fundo ela não passa de um "dente-de-leite" que precisamos arrancar se quisermos crescer.

Quanto a Lula, ele de fato não é nenhum Fidel, mas muitos petistas tem um passado muito pouco recomendável. Resta saber qual tendência será dominante...



Alex Furtado
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12/30/2002
11:43:42
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Caro Pedro,

Depois que descobri ao acaso este fórum, encontrei aqui uma ótima oportunidade de debater sobre o meu país, que amo, de aprender um pouco de inglês e entrar em contato com pessoas como você, que tem algo a dizer, capazer de modificar minha visão de mundo. Desconhecia que Cuba antes da revolução tinha um padrão educacional superior ao brasileiro e inferior ao padrão uruguaio e argentino. Isto é um fato contundente que faz pensar.
Contudo, Pedro, o que dizer da sáude, é possivel dizer sobre ela o mesmo, o nível da saúde do povo cubano não teve expressivo incremento com a advento da revolução cubana?
Quanto ao Lula e ao PT, não creio, de verdade, que a ala radical do partido tenha algum parcela de poder decisório no novo governo. As medidas econômicas anunciadas pelo futuro ministro da fazenda, que nas palavras de Abílio Diniz, são ortodoxas ao ponto de envergonhar Boston, e as lágrimas da senadora Eloísa Helena pela indicação do banqueiro Meirelles para o Banco Central, são uma indicação que acena claramente neste sentido.

Abraços,
Alex Furtado.


Fernandobn
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12/30/2002
15:16:06
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This article is dangerous! God, what a paranoid article!
I personally don’t like Lula, but let’s give the man a chance and time. I think what all Brazilians want is a change in the “Status Quo”. Jobs, more affordable housing, education, security and etc. Like US, Brazil needs to defend their interests, firmly, as US does! This Constantine C. Menges is a stupid one! Why US is the only country that can have Nuclear Weapons? Soon or later we gonna be taged as Terrorists! Terrorism acts are in any place in the world! This article is a sort of terrorism, don’t you think? Anti-americans exists everywhere, but it isn’t the feeling of the majority of the Brazilian people. American people make a lot of good things as bad things as anybody else. I hope that peace will prevail at the end.
God bless us all!



Pedro
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12/31/2002
05:13:35
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Salve Alex Furtado!

É confortante encontrar um genuino brasileiro aqui no forum dessa revista onde, ironicamente, os brasileiros são minoria, e por vezes tenho a impressão de que o país aqui abordado não é o meu BRAZIL, mas o BRAZZIL - uma terra meio imaginária e bastante distorcida, uma vez que só é descrita pelo ponto de vista do visitante.

Sobre Cuba, acho que eu (assim como toda a minha geração) tive uma fase de encantamento, mas não engana mais. Pelo que ouvi dizer, em Cuba não falta médicos, mas os remédios que eles receitam nunca são encontrados. Eu creio que na verdade tudo não passou de um engodo, um jogo de soma-zero onde o que se ganha de um lado se perde do outro. O trabalhador cubano nunca viveu melhor do que o trabalhador do resto da América Latina. Comparando:

- Aqui o trabalhador passa necessidade porque não tem dinheiro, em Cuba ele passa necessidade porque não tem o que comprar;

- Aqui faltam médicos, lá faltam remédios;

- Aqui poucos tem acesso ao ensino superior, lá todos tem acesso, mas quando se formam vão ganhar US$30 por mes...

E o resto é discurso de Fidel. Espero que a esquerda brasileira consiga se livrar desse ídolo pré-histórico.



Brazilian Girl
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1/04/2003
12:57:57
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First of all, a great reality in America is the Americans have no idea of what happen outside the United States. I've live in Amazonia area for 10 years, and do you know what are the main companies destroying the forest? American Companies and Pharmaceuticals!
Secondly, this communist paranoia put in your head, just like the Misel Crises with Cuba has also been created to justify any future invasive.
So, where is the "Freedom" that the American people talk so much about? Or is it, "free, as long as you don't go against American interests, which includes exploitation and devastation, so you can have the way of living you do?"
Unfortunately, after I moved to US, I've learned that the American people are truly good at heart, but alienated and naive.



Sick
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1/04/2003
15:15:00
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*"First of all, a great reality in America is the Americans have no idea of what happen outside the United States." - I've talked to hundreds of people from all over the world in person and on the internet and I can safely say the same holds true for everyone else, as far as being naive of other cultures outside their own.

*"...and do you know what are the main companies destroying the forest? American Companies and Pharmaceuticals! - I was going to challenge you to name them, but I know you don't know, so I looked it up for you. Gee, guess who is driving the destruction of the rainforest.

According to an October 31, 2001 Greenpeace report:

"A recent Greenpeace report, Partners in Mahogany Crime, found that the mahogany trade is driving the destruction of the Brazilian Amazon rainforest and is run by a corrupt industry which is undermining traditional cultures, and leading the illegal destruction of the world's most biologically diverse ancient forest.

The report details these illegal acts and the two mahogany kings, Moisés Carvalho Pereira and Osmar Alves Ferreira, who control most of the trade. According to information obtained from workers, the wood seized at the Juvilandia farm belongs to Osmar Ferreira.

Much of the mahogany paperwork is falsified and the wood is then exported by these companies to international markets, predominantly to the US, the UK, the Netherlands and Germany.

Just four importers, DLH Nordisk, Aljoma Lumber, J Gibson McIlvain Co Ltd and Intercontinental Hardwoods Inc accounted for more than two-thirds of the mahogany export trade in one year from Moisés and Ferreira. This mahogany is used largely in luxury goods such as yachts, high-class furniture, musical instruments and coffins."

Those two men are Brasilians. US demand for this product I am sure will be blamed for this destruction and mayhem. At no point should one ever blame the country actually harvesting the rainforest. I can only infer that you view your own countrymen as mindless, robotic dupes enslaved by US consumer demand. It is nice to know you think so highly of your fellow Brasilians, perhaps this self-loathing is what prompted your move to the States?

*"Secondly, this communist paranoia put in your head, just like the Misel Crises with Cuba has also been created to justify any future invasive." - Not since 1989. By the way, I harbor no paranoia, I agree that much of that was overboard and over-simplified. However, wouldn't it also be fair to say that the paranoia of alleged US imperialism in Latin America is often a bit overboard and over-simplified as well?

*"So, where is the "Freedom" that the American people talk so much about? - You lost me, where does freedom to self-determination NOT exist in Latin America?

*Or is it, "free, as long as you don't go against American interests, which includes exploitation and devastation, so you can have the way of living you do?" - This is just paranoia of alleged US imperialism and has been created to justify any future electoral victory of left wing candidates. How quickly the tables turn.

*"Unfortunately, after I moved to US..." - Yes, I agree, that is quite unfortunate. How can you stand living in the belly of the beast?


Brazilian Girl
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1/05/2003
07:58:52
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I never Meant to say anything bad about the American People, but about the government. Besides, it is a whole different issue to "talk" to people on the Internet and to have actually lived in different countries. I have lived in 3 so far: Brazil, England and USA. I am a great admirer of Clinton, who had a very good International Politic, 8 years without wars. Mr. Bush only needed a couple!
Besides, It is human nature (in general, generalizing, exceptions do exist) to exploit and/or take advantage when necessary; any country would do so (and I can talk about human nature, because I am a Psychologist). Many Americans have agreed with me and with the idea of being naive, those were one of my teacher’s words (A doctor in English Literature), about not knowing what happens outside the USA. Secondly I could start name companies that have fabrics in third world countries because they are cheaper like Nike, Levi's, productions in the apparel industry that many times are also employers of children.
I am not denying the faults my country has, otherwise I would be acting just like you, but that is one difference, Brazilians do not deny them. Many times we fought, we go to the streets, we risk our lives. The issue is that you shouldn't be talking about things you don't know, and ask further about the things you read on the newspaper. If you don't question your self and do not accept the fact that other truths might be at hand then you are being dogmatic only. I do not believe America is a beast, nevertheless it's people, but liberty of expression does exist and if I have more information than you to criticize then I should do so. I love my country, but that doesn't stop me from criticizing it, when things are going too bad!
Ethnocentrism limits our options and our perspective towards the world.
About the companies in Amazonia, the only reason why I don't name them to you (and I never said that only American companies devastated it, but they were there as well, and I admit, many times behind corporate shields, and along with Brazilian Companies), because this under investigation and project of the University I used to attend.
Furthermore, I don't believe you are the most qualified people to judge us about devastation and preservation, considering you have killed all your Native Americans, and devastated most of your forests, so we could have the way of life we do.
Brazil has one of the biggest protected areas for native Brazilians, and even though many of them are now alcoholics and deal the wood on their preservations, many have never had contact with civilized man.
Besides, think with me, for real, not with hate or any kind of judgment because we are having this little "thing" here, but what would you think USA would do if Amazonia was in America, with all the gold, diamonds and natural resources there? Of course it would use it, like it did with those that are here already. We might be mistaking in many things but we have good people there trying to fight it, people that are giving their time, away from their families, and I didn't talk to anyone about it, I saw it, I was there.
Just think about it, just give it a chance that the world and the Elites are about power and money.
Lula has been in our lives for many years, we were there, we talked to him, we didn't watched on the news, or we didn't read in a magazine, so maybe you should give credit for what we say.
Brazilians aren't about war, just read about it. In history that you seem to know so little about. We are about soccer and carnaval, and we are about minding our own business. We only want to raise our kids in a better Brazil, and be more nationalist.
The big preoccupation of the international market behind excuses like he being friends with Fidel isn't the friendship per se, but that Mr. Silva was going to be way more strict to international trades, etc than previous presidents have been.
We are mostly worried about millions of people that do not have what to eat, and as an American you should be happy that the biggest DEMOCRACY in Latin American showed maturity to change and give better hope to its people.



Macunaima
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1/05/2003
08:36:07
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Brazilian Girl:

Far be it for me to defend the Wushinho or American foreign policy. Furthermore, I'd like to state right now that the original poster of this message is a startingly stark example of the typical ignorant American boob; the kind of guy H.L. Mencken would be lambasting today if he were still alive.

I would like to point out a few flaws in your arguements, however:

1) "I am a psychologist, so I understand human nature"

If you believe this, then you certainly didn't listen very carefully during your required sociology classes at the university. Psychological reality is not social reality. Individuals in the aggregate are a different kind of phenomenon than individuals on their own. The American empire doesn't exist because every individual American gets a thrill out of excersizing power: it exists because a handful of very rich, very powerful Americans want it to. Their interests are not the same as those of the vast majority of Americans they rule. You raise an interesting point when you ask why the masses of Americans don't rise up and overthrow the crooks in power. That they "feel good about oppressing others because this is human nature" is not the answer, however.

2) "Brazilians risk their lives to change their government." Yes. Sometimes. Sometimes, however, they sit like a lump on the log while injustices occur, just like the Americans are doing now. May I remind you that the vast majority of Brazilians /supported/ the military dictatorship, at least passively, for the majority of its existence? You're probably too young to remember what things were like back in 1968. I suggest you read some of the many books written by activists from that time. The one thing they all agree upon was the fact that their struggle against the dictatorship was completely removed from the concerns of the average Brazilain "man in the street".

3) "The U.S. has killed all its Indians." This is simply an ignorant, uninformed opinion. There are around 1,000,000 Indians in the U.S. today, about half of whom live on reservations. Many of these Indians have a culture and lifestyle that is quite different from that of your "average" American. I've worked on reservations in both Brazil and the U.S. and, frankly, I've not noticed that Brazilian Indians are any more "Indian" or real than the U.S. American variety. Brazilian Girl, I really think you don't know what you're talking about here.

4) "Clinton didn't start any wars." As much as I prefer Clinton to Bush, I really wonder where you've been during the last decade. Clinton fought a major war against Serbia, don't you remember? During his presidency, he bombed the Sudan, Iraq (multiple times) and, IIRC, Afganistan. Hell, that's just what I remember off the top of my head. Oh yeah! There was also the U.S. intervention in Somalia, too. However much you like him in comparison with Bush, Clinton was not a man of peace. In fact, he represented the same elite American interests that Bush now represents, though admittedly, he was more mediagenic.

Brazilian Girl, like the Americans you criticize, you seem to be very poorly informed about issues which you are willing to fight over. The only "human nature" I see being demonstrated here is a sort of brute tribalism: i.e. "my people better than yours". That's not an unmodifiable flaw written into human character, honey, it's ignorant prejudice and it dissappears when you educate yourself and show some sympathy for the other fellow.




Brazilian Girl
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1/05/2003
09:20:23
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I do show sympathy and my post wasn't (far from it) an intention of describe/defend any masters thesis!
Secondly, I believe you haven't study Psychology ever in your life, human nature is linked to human behavior, and human behavior is (many times, not always, not all the time) predictable. Which includes survival instincts. I am not going to talk to you about Gestalt Therapy, Behaviorism, Person Centered Therapies, Conditioning, Operant Conditioning, Positive Reinforcement, because it is just too much to write about.
I am against wars period.
And when I pointed out the Brazilians the "fight and do something" I was talking about ONE issue, ONE situation to which I was part of, as you carefully misread in my post.
Thirdly, I do remember the wars Mr. Clinton was a part of, but I was talking about a so flagrant "no reason at all for war" that's been happening right now. As we learn in English classes, it is not necessary to say that it was my opinion, my view, but it looks like I have to point that out now. I didn't think I was supposed to explain myself in every detail, considering that everybody here had some brain synapses working.
The post was just one point of view, on one issue, but you preferred to look at it in a simplistic, stereotypical way.
The truth has many faces; it depends where we are looking from.



Sick
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1/05/2003
10:15:07
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Brazilian girl,

You are lost.

Clinton had no wars? The US killed ALL it's indigenous population? And it's Americans that are naive and do not know what goes on outside it's borders? This has to be a joke. But I admit, I love irony.

First of all, I never denied anything about the US, it's actions outside it's borders, or the alleged naivete of it's people. In this thread, I have only argued the context in which US foreign policy was conducted. Whether you or I agree or disagree with the reasons behind it is irrelevant. Our opinions do not change the facts.

Thanks for the enlightening bit of info about the US having factories in third world countries. NO ONE knew that, you need to tell the media so the world can know. And be sure to add it is ONLY the US that exploits third world labor.

Amazonia...YOU said it was being devestated by US companies and pharmaceuticals. Now you can't name the list of companies involved because it's a super secret investigation of the university you no longer attend? You're a joke. I never judged Brasilians on the devestation of the rainforest, it is THEIR rainforest. I was merely pointing out that it is WRONG to blame the US for it.

"Ethnocentrism limits our options and our perspective towards the world." - Bravo. Then you go on to say this little diddy: "We only want to raise our kids in a better Brazil, and be more nationalist." - Since when has being more "nationalist" improved anyone's options and perspective toward the world?

"Just think about it, just give it a chance that the world and the Elites are about power and money." - Another brilliant observation. Thank you "Mistress of the Obvious".

"Brazilians aren't about war, just read about it. In history that you seem to know so little about." - When did I say Brasilians were about war?

"We are about soccer and carnaval, and we are about minding our own business." - Is this the modern version of "Fiddling while Rome burned"?

"...and as an American you should be happy that the biggest DEMOCRACY in Latin American showed maturity to change and give better hope to its people." - I never complained about Lula being elected. It's just, I am not a fan of left wing solutions. And I am allowed that right, correct? Also, the history you claim I don't know, seems to support my point of view. However, maybe Lula will do it right, we'll just have to wait and see. I direct your own advice right back at you: "If you don't question your self and do not accept the fact that other truths might be at hand then you are being dogmatic only."


Brazilian Girl
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1/05/2003
11:18:26
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1.estimates for the value of forest products for pharmaceuticals of US$20 billion annually in the US market is in Science 268 (1995), 1551; and drugs also appear in ancient texts, Nature 376 (1995)
2.The Queen of Bubble Bath
She has been called "The Mother Theresa of capitalism". But in the past few years Anita Roddick's reputation has suffered more than a few bruises. The founder of Body Shop has been accused of several unethical business practices including the exploitation of the Brazilian Kayapo Indians.
ORIGINAL:
http://www.brazzil.com/p19dec96.htm

3.In Brazil, Latin America's largest country and the twelfth largest economy in the world, Amazonian Indians are demarcating their territories, making it illegal for outsiders to enter without permission. Brazilian Indians are pressuring the government to recognize their intellectual property rights to pharmaceuticals developed by international drug companies after the Indians shared their traditional knowledge and plants with researchers.
OROGINAL:http://mytwobeadsworth.com/IndianLA802.html
4.Brazil Wants Cut of Biotech Firms' Jungle Plunder

ORIGINAL:http://forests.org/archive/brazil/biotechs.htm

You do have the right to you oppinion as I have to show a different point of view for what I have seen.
As I said in the post where I retreat the "misanderstanding" about Clinton and whatever, my inttention was only to show that there are other truths, nothing more. If you teel me that there are many Americans actually helping Brazil in many ways I am going to agree with you. I also believe that we have to be humble enough to admit that there things we don't know, some we do, and some we only have partial knowledge about. I used to have a completely different view of Americans, the American People, today I do know, talking about those I met, that Americans are good people, warm and happy. Nayve, as I said before, were my teachers words. Not in a sense to humiliate or to make it less, but in a sense of not knowing that some truths might be different.
As you talked about Lula, yes you do have the right to think he might be a new Fidel, and I have the right to say that you might be wrong. And even if he wants to be a Fidel, it's our problem and our problem only. If he doens't want to hurt you, attack your country, hurt your people, as he made real clear in the meeting he already had with Mr. Bush , where both agreed to work together, then I don't know why create a ordeal and spread fear in people.





Sick
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1/05/2003
12:41:44
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"As you talked about Lula, yes you do have the right to think he might be a new Fidel, "

I NEVER ONCE SAID OR IMPLIED THAT LULA IS THE NEW FIDEL!!! HAHA LORDY.

"Brazilian officials fear the material is smuggled out of Brazil to become the raw genetic fuel for U.S., European and Asian pharmaceutical industries seeking cures for AIDS, cancer and a host
of age-old ills."

Did you even read the article you posted? Where in that article does it say that US (you consistantly forget to mention other nations or regions) pharmaceuticals are "destroying" the Amazon with biopiracy? If you had said, the US is undermining international law in regards to intellectual property rights and being hypocrites about it, I would have totally agreed.

The article about "Body Shop" is supposed to have a point in relation to this discussion? It is about an unethical business owner. Apparently these only exist in the US? HAHAHAHA

"Not in a sense to humiliate or to make it less, but in a sense of not knowing that some truths might be different." So far, you have done nothing but mislead and misinform and that Clinton comment borders on an outright lie. I don't think you would know a truth if it bit you on the ass.

"I also believe that we have to be humble enough to admit that there things we don't know, some we do, and some we only have partial knowledge about."

You don't appear to be very humble.


Macunaima
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1/05/2003
17:03:02
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Brazilian Girl:


“Secondly, I believe you haven't study Psychology ever in your life…”

Wrong, honey. I’ve TAUGHT sociology to Brazilian psych students at UVA and Candido Mendes and I’ve had to read tons of psych during my undergrad.

“…human nature is linked to human behavior, and human behavior is (many times, not always, not all the time) predictable.”

Psychology isn’t the study of humans in mass. That’s sociology. The problems the U.S. are experiencing are not psychological in nature: they are sociological and historical. Individual Americans are just as well adjusted or not as other human beings and many, MANY of them are laying their “lives, fortunes and sacred honor” on the line fighting against Mr. Bushes’ war. That the war is occurring has little to do with human psychology and everything to do with politics, history and the sociology of power.

If you think that everything in the world can be explained purely by psychology, you need to go back and re-read Malinowski and his comments on Durkheim. Then get back to me. All I can say is if you made a claim like that while trying to pass a graduate-level examination at UFRJ, you’d be failed.

“…but I was talking about a so flagrant "no reason at all for war" that's been happening right now.”

Refresh my memory again: what WAS the reason for the American intervention in Somalia and the bombardment of the Sudan?

I notice you mention nothing about North American Indians in your rebuttal, which is probably for the better.

“Brazilians aren't about war, just read about it. In history that you seem to know so little about."

Hmmm. In MY history courses, I seem to recall a little war where Brazil killed 70 percent of the male population of Paraguay. Then there was the Canudos Rebellion, where all the survivors the Brazilian Army could catch were gutted. Now, however, we are beyond war, right? Which is why our PMs in Rio kill more people every year than the Israeli Army kills Palestinians. If Brazilians “are not about war”, it is perhaps because they have forgotten their own history and don’t bother to read the newspapers very carefully. The wars are occurring, but good citizens like you don’t seem to be too well informed about them. Americans are ignorant about what goes on beyond their borders, but you, B-G, are apparently ignorant about what goes on INSIDE your country’s borders.

Brazilian Girl, if there’s one thing that irks me more than ignorant Americans, it’s Brazilians who claim to be nationalists and who don’t even know the history and actual state of their own country.






Me and Myself
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1/05/2003
19:18:27
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Hey Macunaima,

Did that UVA is a University in Fortaleza-CE???????
Because if it is, you taught my cousin, she told me about an American Professor that was there, she even asked me to translate some stuff for them!
LOL, isn't the world small?!
and about the question, I don't believe Lula will be a new Fidel. He was very radical few years ago, but I believe he learned that his radical political ideas wouldn't be bought in Brazil :)
Let's pray and hope that he does a great job. This "wind of hope" that's blowing in Brazil is amazing, and it's giving people hopes that they had long lost with previous governments!
Good luck to you guys and let me know if it is you!



Me and Myself
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1/05/2003
19:32:27
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Oh, and Macunaima, Canudos war had nothing to do with Paraguay. It was a war in the "sertao" of Bahia, and it was a religious war. People from the "sertao" against land owners, and it happened in 1896-97. And had Antonio Conselheiro , from Fortaleza-Ce (very far away from Paraguay border) as lider. If you understand a bit of portuguese there is anice webby http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/Lab/6434/canudos2.html
The war against Paraguay was even before that, it happened in 1864-70. And it was more a war that was battled in between Spain and Portugal than a war battled by Brazilians.
Nice webby too: http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/guerrapara/guerradoparaguai.htm
Just thought you would like to know!:D


Macunaima
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1/05/2003
23:37:05
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Me myself:

Nope. UVA Rio.

And yes, I do know that Canudos had nothing to do with the Paraguayan War. I was mentioning TWO seperate historical incidents in which the Brazilian armed forces massacred their opponents. there are many others.

Brazilians have a nasty habit of cutting their enemies throats after they surrender.


Macunaima
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1/05/2003
23:40:43
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Me myself2:



Usually in English, the comment "Then there was..." indicates an event seperate from the immediately proceeding one. I.e. "First there was lunch. Then there was dinner." So when I mentioned Brazilians killing enemies in the Paraguayan War and followed that with "Then there was the Canudos Rebellion...", that indicates to most native speakers that the two events were seperate.

Just thought you might like to know.


Me and Myself
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1/06/2003
05:18:03
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I am not going to get in the issue of who does what in wars, because as far as I know, many people do terrible things in wars, that's not something granted to Brazilians only. But those wars were long ago...
And Canudos was not even war against other country, it was an internal war. Religious people who followed Antonio Conselheiro against the Republic at the time, along with land owners. I do appreciate the lecture on the english thing though:)The more you know the better!
You seem to "dislike" us a lot! hehehe
Well, it happens! :D I hope I am mistaken.
I do believe we are good people, and peaceful, as long as nobody messes with us. Just like any other nation would behave I suppose.



Macunaima
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1/06/2003
07:31:35
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"I am not going to get in the issue of who does what in wars, because as far as I know, many people do terrible things in wars, that's not something granted to Brazilians only. But those wars were long ago..."

Which is precisely why, in my original post, I mentioned that today the PMs in Rio kill more people yearly than the Israeli Army. (That's the second basic reading error you've made now, My Guest. Not good. You write English too well to make the excuse that you can't read it. What's the problem?) Obviously, the viscious streak we're talking about here isn't a thing of the past. I could mention many other contemporary tragedies, but I'm sure you get my point.

"And Canudos was not even war against other country, it was an internal war."

My point was, in response to Brazilian Girl's notion that Brazilians "aren't about war" is that Brazilians have been so very much in the past and are certainly into organized, state sponsored killing now. Neither her nor I were talking exclusively about foreign wars, just wars. So your point is...?

"You seem to "dislike" us a lot!"

Now THIS is ironic! Brazilian Girl and several other Brazilians have complained here and elsewhere that Americans think Brazilians hate them when all Brazilians are doing is constructively criticizing them. I bring up some cognizant points re: Brazil and warfare and now I'm accused of "disliking" Brazil.

Insisting that history be looked at objectively, with all its warts, is not an excercize in "dislike", it's simply good sense. You and B-G very rightly point out that Americans don't seem to want to come to grips with what their country has done and is doing. Yet when I point out some not too pleasant things that Brazil has done/is doing, I'm immediately accused of "disliking" Brazil.

So tell me: what's the moral difference between you guys and the ignorant Americans you ridicule?

Furthermore, what's this "us" shit, kid? I'm a Brazilian citizen through naturalization. I vote, pay taxes and raise my family in Brazil. Last I looked, Brazil was just as much an immigrant nation as the U.S. and by our constitution, I'm just as much a Brazilian as you.

"I do believe we are good people, and peaceful, as long as nobody messes with us. Just like any other nation would behave I suppose."

Unfortunately, "good people" is an oximoron. There are only good individuals, e olha la.





Me and Mylself
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1/06/2003
08:33:39
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LOL! I a going to laugh about that! You sure are very defensive! I didn't read to the totality of your "conversation" with BG, and I am far from denying the misdeeds and errors of my country. On the contrary! I was part of the Student Movement for many years, since I was 14, I(when I say I, I include myself only) was really tryin to fight unfortunate happenings, etc that happens there and just like any were else. I haven't post anything personal, depressive or humiliating about the USA. I love the American people. I have been very welcomed here in the USA.
I am just kindda surprised by the way that I feel (please don't take me wrong) that you are attacking me!
One's oppinion doesn't make a whole nation's oppinion, and definatly doesn't make mine.
About the issue on the"don't know how to read" I just meant that I misread it, and I am sorry if I expresed myself wrongly. My intention was far from make you feel down, I just thought you would like to know more. If you tell me about American History I am going tolisten to you because you were born here and might have a different perspective from what I've learnd in school in Brazil.
Like many people I just want peace, I belive we are all humans and I don't like or dislike nations or races, but individals.
When I said you didn't like us, I said it in a sarcastic way, making a joke (that's why I put the smily face there), but I'll hold my jokes to myself now. I just came here because I thought I could swap informations, learn more and contribute with the few things I know, or belive
in.


Pedro
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1/06/2003
09:29:22
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PMs in Rio kill more people yearly than the Israeli Army? Sure? I did not know that!

But did you know that Rio is THE 1ST CITY IN THE WORLD IN TOTAL OF POLICEMEN KILLED IN ACTION YEARLY? Hundreds every year! Did you know that?

Brazilians and americans have each a peculiar relationship with their police officers. Americans use to picture them in movies as heros and supermen, so displaying an image that is better than reality, while brazilians make every effort to show their police far worse than it is in fact.

Example? For brazilians, the hero is Fernando Gabeira, the terrorist who kidnapped the american ambassador Charles Burke Elbrick. I wonder what americans think of "O que é isso, companheiro?"... I don´t know the english translation of the title, but this movie won several prizes...

But that was the disease of our generation. We believed that officers were inherently bad, while bandids and terrorists were no more than poor victims of the international capitalism... We wanted to make Brazil a new Cuba, but coudn´t. Sad, sad, sad...




Ana Silva
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1/06/2003
09:41:30
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Galera aqui eh muito retardada meu!
E gringo achando que pq passou ferias no Rio e mestrando em Brasileiro, pq leu 'tons' de Picologia e Psicologo. hehehe
Sem falar n alienacao tipica dos tidos paises desenvolvidos que ainda acham que o mundo gira em torno deles e que todos tem a obrigacao de fazer 'o que ees querem'!
And please do not use automatic translator, it doesn't work at all!


Sick
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1/06/2003
09:52:02
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Pedro,

Do you recall if Alan Arkin played the role of Ambassador in the movie you mentioned?






Me and myself
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1/06/2003
10:04:13
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Oh, and Macunaima please don't use that type of language with me "Furthermore, what's this "us" shit, kid?"
I have being very polite with you and I believe I deserve the same treatment, besides, bad names can be very vulgar, specially when talking to someone you do not know, ok? ;)
I wish I was a kid, I am 26 with tons of bills to pay!!!!!!!! Good Luck, and Peace for all, because rage and violance give wrinkles! :D


Macunaima
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1/06/2003
17:40:21
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Ana, morro no Brasil faz 15 anos, sou cidadao, professor universitario e me formei - tanta na graduacao quanto no pos - em universidades brasileiras. Se voce acha que minhas opinioes sao erradas, porque nao enumerar as faltas logicas nelas? Dizer que alguem e ignorante apenas por ter nascido no exterior e racismo.


Ana
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1/06/2003
19:12:09
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Macunaima meu amor, nao estava falando de vc mas de muita asneira que li.Se a carapuca sentou, paciencia. Acho ridiculo isso de re-escrever o que pessoas escreveram e "procurar" pelas falhas, perca de tempo meu caro Watson, construo minhas proprias falas. Tem muita coisa interessante aqui, muita gente que se expressa legal, muita gente que so fala merda! Tava falando dos que falam merda, e merda e ideologias deturpadas.
Hahahaha, falar de racismo chega a ser exagerado, mas se vc quer colocar assim paciencia, sua opniao nesse quisito me importa nada, afinal, amo o meu pais e principalmente o fato de saber que varios sangues correm em minhas veias. A minha opiniao sobre mim mesma, e minhas conviccaoes sao as que mais importam, eu sei que eu nao sou racista, "entonssi"!
Vc parece bem propenco a criticar os outros, e "apontar" o que os outros disse, mas nem teve o cavalheirismo de pedir desculpas a(o) Me pelo palavriado chulo e pobre, ate pq a pessoa pode ate ter idade de ser teu filho(a)!
Falo e repito, tem um monte de gringo retardado que so fala merda, que e etnocentrico, que nao sabe que e explorado pelos EUA ou decapitado por brasileiro. Como fora do Brasil a gente tb e gringo, isso vale para todos os energumos da parada!
Mas vc nao entendeu!



Ana
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1/06/2003
19:15:56
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Ah, e nao disse que uma pessoa por nascer no exterior eh ignorante, por favor nao coloque palavras na minha boca (ou letras no meu teclado)! Extremamente deselegante isso!


Ana
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1/06/2003
19:50:27
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Ah e no dia 1º maio de 1865, o governador do Uruguai, Venâncio Flores, o presidente da Argentina, Bartolomeu Mitre e o imperador do Brasil, D. Pedro II, formaram a Trípice Aliança para combater o DITADOR do Paraguai, Solano López. Foi nossa GUERRA CONTRA O TERRORISMO! hehehe
"Vcs pode e nois nao, eh ruim ein cumpadi!" "sai pra la que quem gosta de pe e chule!"


Pedro
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1/07/2003
08:42:55
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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To Sick:

I dont´t remember the name of the actor, but he was american. He did a good job.


Pedro
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1/07/2003
08:52:23
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Para Ana Silva:

É bom encontrar uma mulher e brasileira aqui nesse forum, onde o que tem mais é homem e americano. O resultado disso você viu, tem horas que a besteirada come... isso seria até engraçado, mas o caso é que essas opiniões podem se materializar em preconceitos e enganos grosseiros a respeito do Brasil e dos brasileiros.

Nossa tarefa é longa, mas aos poucos iremos ensinando um pouco de Brasil para esses americanos tipo papai-sabe-tudo. Alguns são machões enrustidos mesmo, mas outros são apenas mal informados.




Ana
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1/07/2003
09:25:45
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Para Pedro:
Com certeza! Principalmente no que vc disse sobre preconceito!
E eu que pensei que a gente estava falando de atualidades e "neguinho" veio pegar guerra de 2 seculos atras para falar que a gente corta garganta dos outro?????? Loucura meu!
Fala que pessoas estao mal informadas, mas com certeza nao tem lido o jornal ultimamente, afinal, o Brasil assinou tratado de nao proliferaca de armas atomicas (apesar de o novo ministro da Ciência e Tecnologia, Roberto Amaral defender a pesquisa(http://oglobo.globo.com/oglobo/pais/69115499.htm). O que PARTICULARMENTE, eu penso ser genuino, afinal somos democraticos nao?! Se uns tem o direito "nois tb", aliancas e apoio de varias democracias no mundo e o povo ainda ta vivendo na Revoluca Cubana... falar sobre historia eh muito legal e melhor ainda se vc puder dividir conhecimento para nao cometer erros passads e aprender com eles, e repetir oque deu certo, mas como vc mesmo falou, pode aumentar preconceito e ideias negativas. Afinal, o Brasil nao eh so feito de morro e trafico no Rio (nada contra, minha familia eh toda carioca, adoro o Rio), mas tb de gente alegre, festiva, e de bom coracao, como comprovou uma pesquisa (por favor, nao lembro o nome, procurem na net{ aqui ce tem ate de fazer sitacao, fonte de informaca, ano, autor, etc, pq se nao ;) em que o Brasil em numeros $ doa tanto quanto paises desenvolvidos como USA e Inglaterra, entao a gente eh legal tb ne? E as riqezas lindas como Amazonia (que sim, tem varias empresas Americanas la, e grandes Pharmaceuticals, mas o que tb nao tira nossa responsabilidade e relacao a mesma), Boi de Parintins, ser recebido por gente simples do interior que te trata que nem celebridade, gente calorosa e cheia de paixao... cada qual tem sua expriencia e perspectiva. Eu mudei muito, dentro do Brasil e fora, gosto de ver o bom de cada lugar, o ruim? o ruim a gente tenta fazer ficar melhor ao inves de perder tempo falando dos "flaws" no discursso dos outros, parece Campanha politica!!! hehehe Beijos Pedro e se cuida!


Macunaima
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1/09/2003
07:55:33
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Ana...

"E eu que pensei que a gente estava falando de atualidades e "neguinho" veio pegar guerra de 2 seculos atras para falar que a gente corta garganta dos outro??????"

Se o único exemplo desse tipo de comportamento por partes de brasileiros fosse durante a guerra de Paraguai, 130 anos atrás, talvez você teria razão. Todavia, em quase todas as situações envolvendo violência organizada (seja pelo Estado, seja por organizações ou instituções não governamentais), os brasileiros tendem a ir até as últimas consequências. Esse comportamento faz parte do Brasil contemporâneo e certamente mostra que sua tese da "pacificidade brasileira" é errada.


Pessoalmente, ahco que a tese do brasileiro pacífico e calma e tão ridículo quanto a do Brasil do tráfico e da favela. Ambas são ideias simplistas, reducionistas e ridículas.


Ana
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1/10/2003
18:39:22
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Olha Macunaima meu filho, se vc so vai atacar brasileiros toda hora, se a gente e tao horrivel, mau,assassino, cruel, cortador de garganta, "vai ate as ultimas consequencias", antipacifico assim, ta fazendo o que ai ainda meu filho??????????? Vai embora para a sua America, para o povo que nao vai ate as ultimas consequencias, que nao usou UMA BOMBA ATOMICA e matou um monte de gente inocente, que matou milhares de pessoas e em trocentas guerras por dinheiro e poder, que agora quer comecar mais uma guerra para justificar a ganancia pelo petroleo do Oriente Medio,vai. A unica coisa que vc faz e copiar o que os outros escreveram e atacar, vc eh que nem cientista de quinta categoria, que ao inves de estudar novas teorias, trabalhar em pesquisas novas, sugerir solucoes, trabalha na pesquisa dos outros e 'mete o pau".
Se vc nao sabe falar nada construtivo, ou criticar contrutivamente ou dar ideias e solucoes , entao, faca o favor e se mude!
Brasileiro nenhum tem a ilusao de que no Rio nao existe trafico e bandidagem. O Brasil nao e feito do Rio apenas, e um dos maiores paises do mundo, e pelo jeito ou vc nao o viu nada, ou nao quis ver. Os problemas do Brasil, sao principalmente de carater economico e social, causados pela pobreza e pela fome, mas vc nao deve saber o que eh isso (eu nao falo ver, eu falo sentir, passar fome, nao ter o que comer, ver seu filho chorar de fome, ver sua mae se acabar de trabalhar num tanque para poder comer feijao e arroz todo dia), pq se vc quiser "meter o pau" a gente pode falar de adolescentes americamos que tem casa, comida, roupa lavada, bons pais, dinheiro, e pegam armas e saem matando todo mundo na escola, um caso por mes quase (se quer uma fonte, le jornal! Usa a internet para algo util)). Eu fico triste com pessoas como vc, pobres de espirito e alienadas. E para completar mal educadas, que usam palavras de baixo calao e que so gosta de humilhar e denegrir as pessoas, nada do que vc falou aqui ate agora eh util, nem para o povo brasileiro, nem para quem quer aprender mais, o fato de vc morar ai a 15 anos, e pagar taixas e criar seus filhos ai nao faz de vc um brasileiro,. ser brasileiro eh tah na merda e ainda sim sorrir, eh pegar o pouco que vc tem e dividir com teu vizinho que ta passando fome, eh ir para o carnaval e tentar ser feliz, nem que seja por tres dias, para eskecer a fome, mas vc nao sente isso, se acha tao ruim faz alguma coisa para mudar, ao inves de sentar na frente do computador e ficar maltratando os outros. Vc eh chato, se acha muito inteligente, mas fala muita besteira, e magoa as pessoas. Se vc nao notou, o topico do forum eh "Lula, o novo Fidel" e nao : "brasileiro corta garganta, brasileiro nao eh pacifico". Por favor, nao se incomode em responder para mim, pq nao vou mais perder meu tempo com vc, como ja falei, cria algo rapaz, faz algo de construtivo! Se vc fosse meu pai, eu ia ter vergonha de vc, que mora no pais onde eu moro, talvez onde eu nasci e fica ai falando tanta coisa ruim, generalizando as pessoas pela nocao que vc tem desse seu mundo frivolo e pequeno! Vai fazer amor com sua esposa, vai tomar um chopp no barzinho da esquina, vai ver um jogo de futebol, vai ler um bom livro, vai sorrir, vai ser feliz, vai olhar o por do sl no Arpoador, vai andar de charrete em Itaparica, vai viajar pelo sertao do nerdeste onde vc e tratado melhor do que na casa da pessoa mais rica do mundo, vai na Amazonia ver o boto cor de rosa, ver os indios dancando e cantando, vai no Pantanal ver onca-pintada, e se ainda assim tudo tiver mal, violento, o que quer que seja, faz algo para melhorar, ajuda uma crianca a entrar na escola, vai dar sopa de madrugada para sem teto, e se ainda assim nao der certo junta tuas tralhas e te manda! Tem um ditado brasileiro que cae como uma luva para vc, "OS INCOMODADOS QUE SE MUDEM!!"




Pedro
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1/11/2003
07:43:30
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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É verdade, o Brasil não é só o Rio. Eu sempre morei no Rio, desde a época em que ele era bom, mas hoje meu sonho é ir morar em outra cidade. Já morei em Maricá, mas como eu continuo trabalhando no Rio, ficou muito puxado.

Temos que mostrar para os estrangeiros que O BRASIL NÃO É SÓ O RIO.




Guest


1/11/2003
16:53:41
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Mas aqui é tão gostosinho...


Macunaima
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1/12/2003
12:26:13
RE: Lula is a new Fidel Castro
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Ana: Bom exemplo do mau humor brasileiro em situações de conflito é sua própria resposta: “Olha Macunaima meu filho, se vc so vai atacar brasileiros toda hora, se a gente e tao horrivel, mau,assassino, cruel, cortador de garganta, "vai ate as ultimas consequencias", antipacifico assim, ta fazendo o que ai ainda meu filho.” “Brazil: love it or leave it”, neh? Quero dizer, como imigrante e cidadão, penso que devo enxergar tanto o lado ruim quanto bom do meu país e, como cientista social, devo ajudá-lo melhorar. Aparentemente, você acha essa atitude traiçoeira, não digno de um “bom brasileiro” que não deve, nunca, falar nada com que você não concorda.

Face it Ana: you’re just as much of a nationalist, nativist putz as any redneck American.



Dan
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2/01/2003
22:13:15
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Lula is not the next Fidel, I am sure of it. Lula was a labor leader but when the military took power in Brazil he fought and went to jail fighting for the return to democracy, Fidel never did that. Lula is a religioous man who beleives in catholicism, Fidel outlawed religion. The pope visited but that was only to show-off his new style of relgioius tolerance. Lula is a man who understands the market, and desires to export more, while Fidel stays put with his ancient crippled economy. Lula is smart, a good politician and now lets pray he helps push Brazil forward with the reforms needed.

Now he does put some fear into me when he puts a man like Jose Sarney as president of the Senate. I know he needs the PMDB votes but you cant find a man who is not corrupt! He dominates his state like a cornel. And the PT has power over corruption since Jose Alencar recently stopped his hiring of his sister and niece to government positions after at outcry by the PT party. Good for the PT party. I hope Lula reforms the justice system because they need to fight corruption and put everyone in jail even if they are rich politicians!


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