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Remy
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10/28/2002
13:33:16
Subject: Let me call it stupid
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What about the 60 $ fee to obtain a visa , this is unique to Brazil; that is only misplaced pride and very unproductive.


Anonymous
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10/28/2002
13:59:09
uh, stupid is you...
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I believe that fee is only charged in "reciprocation" for the exact same fee charged by the US for a similar visa.


Brent
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10/29/2002
11:24:14
the fee IS stupid
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Actually, I think it is US$100 now. What a fucking crock of shit
that fee is. I agree with the poster.

You can't honestly tell me that Brazilians have to pay the
equivalent of US$100. I don't believe it. That's like R$400, or
more, depending on how badly the Brazil economy is sagging
at the moment.


Randy Paul
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10/29/2002
12:33:04
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Brent, you can link here for the facts:

http://www.consulado-americano-rio.org.br/noniv.htm

Business Visa: $60
Tourist Visa: $65
Work Visa; $100
Exchange Visa: $40

Here's what the Brazilian Consulate in New York says on their site:

Tourist visas for U.S. citizens are issued free of charge. Nevertheless, a processing fee of US$ 65.00 (effective November 1st, 2002, the processing fee will be US$ 100.00) is charged in reciprocity for identical fee paid by Brazilian citizens who apply for a visa to the United States. A handling fee of US$ 10.00 will be charged if the application is not presented by the passport holder. Please check

This is the law in Brazil. What's sauce for the goose . . .



Brent
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10/29/2002
13:05:05
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Randy, you are correct. I investigated it. That's not cool if
some guy from Brazil has to pay R$400 for a visa. Damn.

This has got to be the most illogical statement I've ever read:

>Tourist visas for U.S. citizens are issued free of charge.
Nevertheless, a processing fee of US$ 65.00 (effective
November 1st, 2002, the processing fee will be US$ 100.00) is
charged in reciprocity for identical fee paid by Brazilian
citizens who apply for a visa to the United States.<

So visas are issued free of charge, but a fee of US$65 is
charged? Doesn't sound like they're issued free of charge.

Dumbasses.


Randy Paul
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10/29/2002
13:37:53
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Brent, you're being a bit harsh. It is really only a matter of semantics. The US Consulate in Rio also refers to the fee as "visa application processing fee" and not the actual cost of the visa.

For what it's worth, the visas to Brazil used to be free. My first two were in 1995 and 1996. It was only after the US really amped up their rates did Brazil start charging.


Randy Paul
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10/29/2002
13:55:24
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Here's an explanation of the difference for a visa issuance fee and a visa processing fee. I got this from the travel section of the US State Department's website:

"THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN VISA ISSUANCE & VISA APPLICATION FEES
If money is important to you, and you or somebody you know needs a United States visa, you need to understand the distinction between a visa 'issuance' fee and a visa 'application' fee.

"Most non-diplomatic and non-official visas issued by United States consular officers abroad require a visa 'application' (Machine-readable visa - MRV) fee that recovers for the United States the costs associated with manufacturing, processing, and printing the visa. The current visa 'application' fee is $100.00.

"Most visa applicants (visitors, students, temporary workers, etc.) are charged this $100.00 visa 'application' fee even if there is no visa 'issuance' fee.

"So, when you are looking at one of the following country reciprocity schedules, don't forget that an additional $100.00 visa 'application' fee should be factored into the overall total cost of the visa unless the visa is 'diplomatic' or 'official' in nature."

There is then a distinct difference between the two.

The site - which is worth bookmarking if you're a US citizen - is here: http://travel.state.gov/reciprocity/index.htm

Remy, you're simply incorrect if you say that this is unique to Brazil. The State Department wouldn't have to address this issue if that was the case.



King Kong
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10/30/2002
08:36:35
RE: Let me call it stupid
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well then, great, I feel much better knowing my 100 bucks is an application fee and not an issuance fee. That makes all the difference in the world...

I mean, I am perfectly happy to pay for a visa application fee, just as long as it's not an issuance fee, by golly. Won't pay a damn cent for no issuance fee, I tell you.....

But an application fees, well, there's good value in them things. I'd pay double what they are changing, but don't tell them that!


Brent
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10/30/2002
09:18:33
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Randy, harsh or not, I think it's downright stupid how the
Brazilian Consulate words its rule:

>Tourist visas for U.S. citizens are issued free of charge.
Nevertheless, a processing fee of US$ 65.00 (effective
November 1st, 2002, the processing fee will be US$ 100.00) is
charged in reciprocity for identical fee paid by Brazilian
citizens who apply for a visa to the United States.<

They are basically admitting that it doesn't cost them anything
to give you a visa, but "nevertheless" they are going to charge
you ONLY because we charge them. The tit-for-tat nature is
very evident. And very puerile. What is this, second grade?

If the fee is to cover administrative costs, that's fine. I realize it
takes manpower to process stuff. But just say so. Don't say
it's free, then go on to charge.


Randy Paul
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10/30/2002
09:48:07
RE: Let me call it stupid
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>The tit-for-tat nature is
very evident. And very puerile. What is this, second grade?

We do it too, Brent as do a lot of other countries. It's called rules of reciprocity. As I pointed out before, the first two visas I got to Brazil were free. I don't know anyone from Brazil who got a US visa for free.

Our visa charges are also to cover the administrative cost. Brazil should be allowed to do the same.


Vargas
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10/30/2002
09:52:44
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Brazil could start paying off some of the debt it owes the US by
not charging visa penalties.


Brent
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10/30/2002
09:54:18
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Then why don't they say it's to cover administrative costs?
What they're saying is that they charge only because we do,
not because they need the money to cover costs.

But I get it -- countries charge each other for reciprocity. Big
deal... I know the U.S. does it to, so whatever.

Randy, you mentioned that you got your first two visas for free.
Why do you think the U.S. started charging? It's certainly not a
money-making thing.


Randy Paul
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10/30/2002
11:15:16
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Brent,

I think that the US has always charged for visas. I think that the price increase was to discourage people. If you ever talk to someone from Brazil who has gotten a visa to the US, compare it to your experience in getting a visa to Brazil. I have and getting the Brazilian visa is much less cumbersome and not humiliating in the least.

>Brazil could start paying off some of the debt it owes the US by not charging visa penalties.

A much easier way would be to relax tariffs on orange juice and sugar exports from Brazil to the US, since we talk so much about "free" trade. Of course that would put Brother Jeb in trouble in Florida.


Vargas
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10/30/2002
15:01:46
RE: Let me call it stupid
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Relaxing tariffs on Brazilian citrus products even further...
Hey, yeah, great idea. The already-almost-ruined family
farmers and citrus growers in Florida would really appreciate
that.


Randy Paul
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10/30/2002
17:14:31
RE: Let me call it stupid
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It's a 100% tariff on orange juice. Guess who pays for that. Much of it is big agribusiness. Do you think that Minute Maid (owned by Coca Cola) and Tropicana (owned by PepsiCo) are "already-almost-ruined"?

The point I am making is this: our government talks out of both sides of the mouth when the subject of "free Trade" comes up. The government doesn't provide for corporate welfare for the business in which I work. Nobody provides tariffs to protect that industry, When the business in which I used to work went out of business, I chose a different field.


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