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ALNICOM
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11/03/2002
09:59:36
Subject: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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The War against the people from Iuguslavia, the war against the people from Afghanistan and now war against the people from Iraq. What more?


Blame Canada
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11/03/2002
10:36:49
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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What's next?

The war against the type of illiteracy and general un-informed-ness that leads to wildly and ridiculously off-kilter statements like the one above!


A
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11/03/2002
11:12:22
Yeah! Blame Canada!
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Canada is the third-largest provider of marijuana to the U.S.


USCIT
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11/03/2002
11:25:14
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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What are you saying? That you want for them to sell it to you instead?


a guest
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11/03/2002
14:27:41
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Actually, America does indeed on the whole try to respect human rights. Infact it was founded upon that very principle, because the founding fathers created America to escape persecution. America is one of the few places where humans are given a huge amount of rights. It can't be perfect though. Anywhere in the world, hate and discrimination will always exist. While I do not agree on the "war against Afghanistan," and think the U.S. should be cautious with its actions, looking through the governments perspective, I can see the concern to intervene, because if no one else will act, then the radicals hiding out in that area could hurt even a larger amount of people later. Still, the means the end may not be sound, but you really must be careful with uneducated statements.


Randy Paul
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11/03/2002
16:54:41
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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While I oppose the war in Iraq, I have to say that someone who fervently embarasses communism as you do has absolutley no credibility on the subject of human rights.


Randy Paul
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11/03/2002
17:00:27
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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>While I oppose the war in Iraq, I have to say that someone who fervently embarasses communism as you do has absolutley no credibility on the subject of human rights.

Lack of thorough proofreading (and a fast server) prevented me from stopping this error. What I meant to say was this:

While I oppose the war in Iraq, I have to say that someone who fervently embraces communism as you do has absolutley no credibility on the subject of human rights.

Indeed there is little respect for human rights in, according to Marx, the first two steps of communism (indeed the only steps that have ever happened) which call for a violent bloody revolution and a dictatorship of the proleteriat. Get a grip.




une fille
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11/03/2002
18:57:36
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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who embraces communism?


Randy Paul
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11/03/2002
20:25:54
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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The person who signs as Alnicom, the person who started this thread.


Anonymous
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11/03/2002
20:45:14
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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From what evidence are you inferring that that he or she is a communist?

And even if they are, what's the worst that can happen? Get over it.


Randy
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11/04/2002
06:35:51
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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What a ridiculous statement from the first poster! I guess he thinks Saddam Hussein does respect human rights? Should he ask the people of Kuwait if Saddam respects human rights? Or how about thepeople of Iran? Or how about the Kurds in Iraq? Where would Hussein have stopped if the US did not stop him?? Ahhh..but we are the ones who trampled on human rights...what about the human rights of the people in the World Trade Center? What about the human rights of the people who suffered under the Taliban? All anyone ever does is look at the bad side of the USA...we are not perfect...but would the world really be better if we just sat back and watched? Sometimes I wish we would....so we could see. You know..the Colombian govt is begging our govt to come in and help against the FARC. Should we go in..and then get blamed for trampling human rights there? Or just let them kill each other? I am for letting them kill each other...the same as in the middle east.


Randy Paul
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11/04/2002
08:39:37
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Anonymous (brave of you to use your real name:-)),

In their first post this person referenced a website for an organization called ALNICOM which is the Aliança Nacional Comunista. The text of his first message in the thread titled "PROTESTO/PROTEST" is as follows:

"Massificaç?o nacional contra a política estadunidense, precisamos mostrar nossa força, e fazer o maior protesto já visto, para q tenha repercuss?o internacional, e que mostremos ao mundo q ainda há pessoas revoltadas com a política estadunidense, n?o podemos ficar parados, precisamos exigir os nossos direitos, o principal deles, de vivermos em paz e justamente!!!

"CONRA A ALCA, CONTRA O IMPERIALISMO, CONTRA A VIOLAÇ?O DOS DIREITOS HUMANOS, CONTRA A VIOLAÇ?O DO MEIO-AMBIENTE, CONTRA UM POLÍTICA DESUMANA.

"A FAVOR DA JUSTIÇA, DA PAZ E DA LIBERDADE!

"NO USA!!!

"Vinni Corr?a - Alnicom
www.alnicom.hpg.com.br
Forum de discuss?o: http://www.forumnow.com.br/pro/foruns.asp?forum=73987"

The idea that someone who embraces communism, an ideology the manifestation of which has caused a long history of human rights abuses, would have any credibility on addressing human rights abuses is ridiculous. It's like a pedophile calling for a crackdown on child molestors.



Alex
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11/04/2002
08:55:02
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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In Randy's defense (responding to the anonymous "from what
evidence... inferring he/she is a communist... get over it"),
ALNICOM's posts on other threads suggest that ANICOM is or
was one of those -- "I'm a complete moron who, when I'm not
telling people how Marx was misunderstood and how Castro
is a actually a humanitarian and economic genius, sits in my
dorm room with a Che Guevara poster on my wall and a
postcard of a burning buddhist monk on my desk, listening to
Rage Against the Machine, signing online petitions and
emailing all my friends about the injustices propogated by the
U.S., the IMF and the World Bank" -- types. Not informed. Not
rational. The kind who thinks that smashing a McDonald's
window is a strong political statement. Like it or not, the U.S.
is still the No.1 distributor of economic aid, food and medical
supplies to developing nations, including Iraq until the
sanctions were put in place. Powerful nations do a lot of bad
and a lot of good. The discussion on Iraq is worthwhile. But
please come up with something other than tired, uninformed
rants.


ALNICOM
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11/04/2002
15:39:41
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Well, Rhandy, i feel sorry for your ignoance, but i will say to you one more time!

YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MEAN COMMUNISM, SO, DON'T SAY CRAP!

VOCÊ NÃO SABE NADA SOBRE COMUNISMO, ENTÃO NÃO FALE BESTEIRA!

Não posso discutir com uma pessoa totalmente alienada e doutrinada!


Randy Paul
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11/04/2002
16:48:14
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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>Well, Rhandy, i feel sorry for your ignoance, but i will say to you one more time!

>YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT MEAN COMMUNISM, SO, DON'T SAY CRAP!

>VOC? N?O SABE NADA SOBRE COMUNISMO, ENT?O N?O FALE BESTEIRA!

>N?o posso discutir com uma pessoa totalmente alienada e doutrinada!

[BIG YAWN]



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11/04/2002
18:17:35
Comunismo
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Alnicom, eu vou pela frase inicial do USCIT sobre você.

DEIXA DE SER IGNORANTE

Me faz um favor e deixa de ser comunista, me dá vergonha de dizer que sou comunista quando tem uma besta gritando asneiras a torto e a direita também se dizendo comunista. Você não é comunista, você não passa de um rebelde pentelho que quer desafiar o sistema e acha que só porque o comunismo é diferente ele é certo.

Pega seu discurso ridículo e compara ele com o de um republicano reacionário. Percebe que só mudam os substantivos né. Pois é, isto é chamado de propaganda, quando um discurso não usa argumentos lógicos para provar seu ponto, e sim repetem sucessivamente os argumentos de modo que o receptor passe a aceitá-los mesmo que não tenham lógica. Já ouviu isto? Iraque tinha armas... e é uma ameaça, Iraque é uma ameaça porque..., Saddam Hussein ameaça os direitos..., etc

Agora veja você: EUA é uma ameaça porque...

Sabe o que você é? UM DOUTRINADO E ALIENADO?

Isto mesmo, como você chamou o/a Alex. Consegue entender que você tem um problema? Consegue perceber que você não está ajudando nenhum brasileiro, e que é egoismo puro querer que fechemos a diplomacia com outro país só porque eles vivem de outra forma? Capitalismo não é a sina da humanidade, a estupidez é!!


Alex
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11/05/2002
10:21:56
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Sorry Ze, didn't get that. I noticed my name but, unfortunately, I
am not conversant in Portuguese.



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11/05/2002
13:44:33
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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He called you doctrined and alienated, I was just explaining to him how alienated he is.


Alnicom
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11/10/2002
07:44:56
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Hahaha, Aé, eu sou o doutrinado? hahahaha
Essa fo boa.
Nao sou a favor do Saddan Hussein em primeiro lugar, mas sou a favor do povo q lá no Iraque vive, a guerra que os EUA quer fazer não é contra o terrorismo, será que ninguém percebe isso?
O q vc acha q os EUA estao fazendo aora no Afeganistao, fazendo buracos procurando Bin Laden? hahaha pura ignorancia. Ou vc nao sabe dos contatos q Bush e Bin Laden posuiam. É tudo um jogo de interesses, nada mais. E quem ganha com tudo isso? A indústria bélica meu amigo, a industria bélica. Ah, também a industia farmaceutica e a industria bioquimica que o dono nos EUA é simplesmente o secretário geral de defesa dos EUA, sabia disso?
Pq será q logo após os atentados, ele aprovou um orçamento que ao inves de se equipar em defesa, poderia ajudar e muito na miséria humana.
Vc também é daqueles que acredita q os EUA ajudam os países miseráveis?
E eu q sou o ignorante.
Irei postar o meu texto aqui sobre a industria da guerra!
Espero q pense nisso! Qto a vc dizer q nao sou comunista, o q sabe sobre mim pra falar um besteira dessas!!!


Abraços!


Mark DuPriest
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11/11/2002
15:01:58
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Message:
AlNICOM you are so right, thank-you for beginning this very intellignet forum, you are correct sir!!!

The USA should follow the stellar example of brasil and have the government murder (conservatively) 1500 Americans (just from the years 1980-1989) that publicly have the nerve to disagree with the Government.Kill the bastards.

Further the USA should immediately begin to torture arrested & incarcerated individuals and remove the human rights that the prisoners now have.
The USA should discontinue the US$ not Reais $12,000,000,000.00 of foreign aid per year to the rest of the world.
The USA should immediately recall all of their military troops from Columbia, Peru, Yugoslavia, Isreal, Southh Korea, Japan, all of Europe, Kuwait, Yemen, Quatar, United Arab Emirates and Saudia Aradia to mention a few and let them go at it, after all Brazilians are not there sticking their nose into matters outside of their country (regardless of the standing invitations from these governments)generally speaking. It's none of our business, be like Brazil, America.
After all we have the fine example of Brazil supporting the fascist in WWll until a Brazilian ship was lost at sea (1943). And then after the war Brazil / South America became a haven for the Nazis.
Come-on America, be more like Brazil.

Withdraw all financial support from the International World Bank.

Kick out the UN and withdraw all financial support.

Opp's one more thing. Throw the illegal workers (Miami alone has approx. 800,000 Brazilians, not to mention NYC)out.

Come-on USA be more like Brazil !!!!!!!!!!

Oh, and lets not forget the admirable history of street children being killed in Brazils second largest city to such a degree that it became neccessary for one of the worlds most respected investigative TV shows (damn, it was American) to publicize this information and begin the World's revulsion that eventually led to reduced murder by Rio's proud & finest Police Officers.

Yes, America you have much to learn...study Brazil.

Excuse me, but can anyone tell me about the Federal, State, City, and University level of Affirmative Action Programs of inclusion that aids in the work, study and employment of Brazilians of African descent and what year it was enacted.

America, whats wrong with you.. you lost the world cup (soccer) and the Pillar Of Shame all in the same year.
gringos estúpidos


eurokid
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11/11/2002
18:05:41
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Lol, that was damn funny


Joaquim Machado
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11/11/2002
18:46:10
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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>Hahaha, Aé, eu sou o doutrinado? hahahaha
Essa fo boa.

>Nao sou a favor do Saddan Hussein em primeiro lugar, mas sou a favor do povo q lá no Iraque vive, a guerra que os EUA quer fazer n?o é contra o terrorismo, será que ninguém percebe isso?

>O q vc acha q os EUA estao fazendo aora no Afeganistao, fazendo buracos procurando Bin Laden? hahaha pura ignorancia. Ou vc nao sabe dos contatos q Bush e Bin Laden posuiam. É tudo um jogo de interesses, nada mais. E quem ganha com tudo isso? A indústria bélica meu amigo, a industria bélica. Ah, também a industia farmaceutica e a industria bioquimica que o dono nos EUA é simplesmente o secretário geral de defesa dos EUA, sabia disso?

>Pq será q logo após os atentados, ele aprovou um orçamento que ao inves de se equipar em defesa, poderia ajudar e muito na miséria humana.

>Vc também é daqueles que acredita q os EUA ajudam os países miseráveis?
>E eu q sou o ignorante.

Voce mesmo!

>Irei postar o meu texto aqui sobre a industria da guerra!
>Espero q pense nisso! Qto a vc dizer q nao sou comunista, o q sabe sobre mim pra falar um besteira dessas!!!

Alguém peidou aqui? Tem cheiro de pum . . .



Guest


11/11/2002
21:22:28
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Mark:

Sim, eu gostaria de que os EUA seguissem o exemplo do Brasil. Pagando suas contribuições à ONU, coisa que o Brasil está em dia ao contrário dos EUA. Parando de financiar golpes militares de direita como o responsável por essas 1500 mortes...

Não pretendo ir adiante, com a excessão de seu penúltimo parágrafo você escreveu uma mistura de meia-verdades e mentiras. Com relação ao seu penúltimo parágrafo me diga como está a situação em seu país natal com os guetos e cidades "pareadas"? Não me leve a mal, mas por mais que hajam diferenças aqui, a aceitação e o convívio entre os diversos grupos étnicos e culturais é maior.

Faça um favor a si mesmo, saia do Brasil e por favor não volte. Você obviamente é uma pessoa de muito pouco bom senso para poder viver como estrangeiro longe de seu mundinho pequeno e aconchegante.


Alnicom
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11/12/2002
16:17:28
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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É admiravel ver o mark dizer isso, Nova York foi uma cidade muito mais violenta que o Rio e ninguém comenta, muito menos a CNN (Ianque adora essa emissora, o mundo para eles está lá).

Se os EUA fossem igual ao Brasil, seriam uma merda também, teram políticos corruptos e um povo ignorante. *A únca coisa q tenho inveja dos EUA, é possuir um povo fiel e esperançoso, e bravo (mesmo q ainda sejam ignorantes)*, mas com certeza, se fosse igual ao Brasil, seia menos fascista!!!

Ah, esqueci, ianques não sabem o real significado de fascismo!


Randy Paul
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11/12/2002
17:37:21
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>É admiravel ver o mark dizer isso, Nova York foi uma cidade muito mais violenta que o Rio e ninguém comenta

Por que é bobagem pura.


Mark
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11/13/2002
08:30:40
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Apparently you have information contrary to the crime statistics reported by the FBI and Policia Ferderal. Of course we need to recognize that according to Human Rights Watch Policia Federal admit that they do know that the statistics are conservative and not accurate because of the inefficient reporting in Rio. So the truth would be higher numbers in Rio.

I recently had what was intended to be a friendly discussion of this issue and the Brazilian co-worked became very nasty and defensive and finally lost control saying (I don't care what the numvbers say". Apparently a common attitude.




Guest


11/13/2002
10:01:45
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Yup, as common as judging all americans by the first smacktard we encounter.


envergonhado
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11/14/2002
17:24:15
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BBC
Monday, 9 September, 2002
Rio 'worse than a war zone'
A study published in Brazil concludes that more young people below the age of 18 are killed by guns each year in Rio de Janeiro than in many areas of the world formally at war.
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2001/wha/8305.htm
Human Rights Watch:
“Summary Arbitrary, and Extrajudicial Killings--An Approximation of a Brazilian Reality." The report stated that the authorities summarily execute approximately 2,000 persons each year”.
“State police (military and civil) committed numerous extrajudicial killings, which continued to be a serious problem throughout the country. The uniformed police summarily executed suspected criminals rather than apprehend them, and then filed false reports that the suspects were resisting arrest. Civil and military police in Sao Paulo state killed 703 persons during the year, compared with 837 killings in 2000. In April the U.N. Special Rapporteur on Torture noted that torture by officials in jails and prisons often resulted in death (see Section 1.c.). Harsh conditions in prisons and rioting led to the death of inmates (see Section 1.c.). Police killed at least one protester during the year (see Section 2.b.). Police also killed street children, indigenous persons, and labor activists (see Sections 5 and 6.a.). In addition, many other killings occurred as the result of death squads and other criminal groups, many of which included police as members. There continued to be numerous credible reports of state police officials' involvement in crime, including revenge killings and the intimidation and killing of witnesses involved in testifying against police officials (see Section 1.e.). The authorities' failure to investigate, prosecute, and punish police who commit such acts created a climate of impunity that continues to encourage human rights abuses.”
“According to the Office of the Police Ombudswoman in Rio de Janiero state, there were 9 reported police homicides in the state during the first 6 months of the year, only a small fraction of the actual total. Independent estimates were that the number of police homicides in the first 9 months of the year was similar to the number reported for the same period of 2000 (312 homicides). The Rio de Janeiro state government stopped releasing data on police-homicides after September 2000. Research conducted by the Institute for Religious Studies (ISER) in the mid-1990's suggested that the actual number of police homicides was double the number officially reported. The ISER report also stated that Rio de Janeiro police killed half of their victims with 4 or more bullets and shot the majority of victims in either the shoulder or the head; 40 cases clearly demonstrated execution-style deaths, in which police first immobilized the victims and then shot them at point-blank range. In 64 percent of the cases examined, the victims were shot in the back.”
“Lack of accountability and an inefficient criminal justice system allow impunity to continue. All crimes less serious than intentional homicide committed by uniformed police officers against civilians remained in the military justice system, in which long delays allow many cases to expire due to statutes of limitations.”
“Amnesty International stated that the prison system was "in crisis"”
“An investigation of the more than 1,100 employees of Sao Paulo's prison at the end of 1998 showed that 241 had criminal records themselves. The majority of the charges against the employers were for crimes committed while working at the prison and ranged from drug trafficking and threats to assisting in escapes. The State Secretary of Penitentiary Administration was aware of the guards' criminal pasts and allowed them to continue working.”
“Prisons do not protect adequately prisoners against violence inflicted by other inmates (see Section 1.a.). For example, on average there are 30 homicides a year in Carandiru prison in Sao Paulo state”
“No official count of the number of riots and rebellions was available, but most likely many dozens, if not hundreds, of such events occurred during the year”
“Mass escapes and armed "rescues" of prisoners by gang members were common throughout the country”
“the judiciary to allow convicts sentenced to less than 4 years' incarceration to do community service in place of custody.”






facts
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11/14/2002
17:54:58
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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http://www.global.org.br/english/state_of_rio_de_janeiro.htm


Fine Example
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11/14/2002
21:08:52
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Lima also gave information in five other cases involving police. In exchange for his testimony, Batista, who is also vice-governor of Rio de Janeiro, gave Lima immunity of prosecution and guaranteed his personal safety.

Highlights of Lima's 15 hours of recorded testimony were: 1)Accusations against 28 Military Police, 3 Civil Police, and 2 police informants in the killings of 21 residents of the Vigario Geral favela; 2) Accusations against Military Police of the 9th Battalion for the killings of 11 residents of the Acari favela in 1990. Lima said the victims were buried in the town of Sao Goncalo; 3) Accused military police officer Eduardo Creazola of the murder of Edmeia da Silva, the "mother of Acari", whose son was killed at Acari, and who denounced police involvement in the killings; 4) Said that civil police found fugitive Pablo Escobar at a residence in the exclusive beach town of Cabo Frio, north of Rio. The police demanded, and Escobar paid, US$10 million for not turning Escobar over to the authorities; 16 drug traffickers were killed by civil and military police last June in the Tijuca National Forest in Rio de Janeiro; 6)Jorge Carelli, of the Osvaldo Cruz Foundation, was "disappeared" and killed by informants of the Anti-Kidnaping Division of the Civil Police; 7) Police accused in the Vigario Geral killings had plotted to kill Secretary Nilo Batista.




Mark
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11/19/2002
14:30:00
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Message:
Sim, eu gostaria de que os EUA seguissem o exemplo do Brasil. Pagando suas contribuições à ONU, coisa que o Brasil está em dia ao contrário dos EUA.
How much does Br. Pay per year as a percentage of gross national product (GNP)?
How much GNP does the USA promise to pay per year?
How much GNP does Br. donate to the UN per year ?
How much GNP does USA. donate to the UN per year ?
How much money does NYC lose in the financial and human cost of diplomats breaking the laws of NYC, NY State and the USA per year?
As you should know, the USA refusal to pay is based on the disagreement of monies being paid to support the abortion of fetus's (which according to Br. law is illegal).
Whom is more consistant to their pricipals?


Parando de financiar golpes militares de direita como o responsável por essas 1500 mortes...
O so the USA is guilty (not alleged) of a coup in Br. in 1998?
Funny, (odd) the newsmedia of the worls is unaware of this fact. I suggest you write a book and provide your evidence and make 10 million dollars (not Reais).

Não pretendo ir adiante, com a excessão de seu penúltimo parágrafo você escreveu uma mistura de meia-verdades e mentiras. Com relação ao seu penúltimo parágrafo me diga como está a situação em seu país natal com os guetos e cidades "pareadas"? Não me leve a mal, mas por mais que hajam diferenças aqui, a aceitação e o convívio entre os diversos grupos étnicos e culturais é maior.

Faça um favor a si mesmo, saia do Brasil e por favor não volte.
Unhappily, my children are held captive by Br federal law that does not allow children under the age of 10 to escape Br. without the permission of their Br. mother. Who just so happens to be awaiting trial for murdering her own son (injected him in the head with Cytotec) in order to continue robbing me.

Você obviamente é uma pessoa de muito pouco bom senso para poder viver como estrangeiro longe de seu mundinho pequeno e aconchegante.

If being aware of facts and the truth makes me an undesireable in Brazil what does that say about Br?


By the way, I believe the USA agreed to pay it's contribution to all the departments not associated with the planned family department (UNESCO?) in approx. Feb.2001.
If you think the UN reflects many Americans attitudes it does not and many Americans favor withdrawing and kicking it out of the USA.

Think they want to go to Br?
Nooooo.
Think the world wants them in located Br?
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.
What would it do to their reputation to be in the country that just got the latest "Pillar Of Shame" especially for the reasons it was given.

Brazilians have no footing to stand on when it comes to throwing rocks at America.

The discussion started was "America does not respect human rights". compared to what other country? Or is perfection the standard.
Brazil certainly by any measure is no comparison to America in regards to human rights. Meu deus voces nao tem democracia ate 1988!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
E você copiou a Constituição Americana.

vc perde, boa sorte proxima vez!!



Guest


11/19/2002
15:47:57
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Little cretin, you sure do have a selective reading and understanding of things. The right wing takeover I was talking about was the one that took our democracy (yes, we had one) in the sixties. The same one that fucked so good this country that they decided to walk away in the late 80's.

By the way how can you say that we copied your little constitution? Not that I think that it is a bad one but there is a sheer diference in volume
to say the least. Do not forget also that it had nothing of original in it, since it was based on french ideals.

As to the UN contribution, you admit that our finances are up to date where US are not.

I said that you're not prepared to live outside your little world because you are so stupid that you married a murderer, got caught in her scheme, got yourself a corrupt lawyer, and was robbed at every single move you made outside your home. I do live here and I'm yet to hear legends of someone as "unlucky" as you. Be off, you're feeding to much corrupts with your work. They need to starve a little before they try honest working.



Guest


11/19/2002
16:04:34
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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While I do not respect Alnicom's copy, paste rethorics I also have no tolerance with your lies and propaganda against my country. It shows a lack of judgement even worse than Alnicom's own, since his portuguese is so bad that I doubt that he really understand what he pastes, whereas you lie with your own words.


Alnicom
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11/20/2002
05:22:55
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Zé, vc é o fruto da mais pura ignorancia brasileira, infelizmente pessoas como vc a solução é apenas deixar de existir...



Guest


11/20/2002
14:06:26
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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E assim pronunciou aquele que degola o português a cada frase...

Aprenda a redigir sozinho e depois nós tiramos a diferença de conscientização a limpo.


alnicom
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11/21/2002
18:14:08
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Aprenda a ficar quieto, daí nao precisarei mais ler as suas baboseiras!!!


Randy Paul
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11/21/2002
18:24:20
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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>Aprenda a ficar quieto, daí nao precisarei mais ler as suas baboseiras!!!

Voce também, daí todo mundo não vai sofrer suas mentiras, sua porcaria pura, sua babaquice!!!


Alnicom
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11/22/2002
16:41:09
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Minhas mentiras??? hahahaha
Pior q a ingnorância, só a burrisse mesmo!!! PQP!


Randy Paul
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11/22/2002
19:08:54
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Entao, voce concorda que a bobagem que voce escreveu e porcaria e babquice!


Alnicom
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11/23/2002
06:15:18
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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"Entao, voce concorda que a bobagem que voce escreveu e porcaria e babquice!"

Bobagem porque você quer né?
Meu amigo, a verdade nem sempre é aquilo que queremos ver!!!
Você acha que é o dono da verdade, só você a possui. Se acha que é bobagem, ao invés de dizer abobrinha, critique e mostre os pontos verdadeiros que você diz ter!!!
Mostre que a política estadunidense apoia a ajuda humanitária, porque acreditar em tudo que passa na CNN é mole! É fácil falar quando não se está do outro lado da moeda!!!



Guest


11/23/2002
09:29:23
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Alnicom, tente entender quer juntar mais de um milhão de filhos da puta é difícil, quanto mais os 200 e poucos dos EUA. Por mais que a mídia local lá tente, é difícl converter toda a sua população com propaganda. Assim como nossa mídia não conseguiu aumentar o consumo de redes per-capita por aqui.

Deixa de ser radical um pouquinho e leia, por favor.


Randy Paul
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11/23/2002
10:00:31
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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I'm going to respond in English and frankly I don't care whether or not you understand.

>Voc? acha que é o dono da verdade

No, I never said that.

Your style of arguing is engaging in glittering generalities, which any student of rhetoric will tell you is difficult to counter because you continually fail to deliver on specifics.

When confronted with evidence, for example, of the utter failure of communism, your entire remark is "that's not true communism." Well, Vinni, it's the only form of communism that has ever manifested itself in the world and it has proven to be an utter failure. Did you know that the Univision television network has shown recent videotapes taken by an ex-girlfriend of Castro's son showing the kind of luxurious life Castro lives in his private residential compound west of Havana known as Punto Cero while many of his fellow citizens suffer?

>porque acreditar em tudo que passa na CNN é mole!

Have you been to my house? Do you know where I get all my sources of information from? Do you know what magazines I read? Do you know that I did volunteer work for Amnesty International for 15 years , working on preventing human rights abuses in many countries, including some that the USA has supported and some that are among your beloved commie countries? Did you know that the largest section of Amnesty International is the section in the US?

>Mostre que a política estadunidense apoia a ajuda humanitária

One very simple way: the immigration policy that let my father and countless other refugees flee oppression and start new lives here.

I do not believe for a moment that everything the US does is good. I know my history. I know how the CIA helped coups in Guatemala in 1954, Iran the same year, Chile in 1973 and probably provided some sort of support to the coup in Brazil in 1964 as well as lending support to the Somozas in Nicaragua and the oligarchy in El Salvador. I would never defend any of these actions. We are certainly not perfect. I subscribe to neither the "Blame America First" camp nor the camp that seems to believe that we are always completely without any reponsibility for any bad in the world. I have never voted for a Bush or Reagan. Yes, we are hypocritical on the subject of free trade and that hurts the Brazilian sugar, steel and citrus industries.

But if you think that the US is the source of all evil in the world and that is the cause for much of Brazil's misery and poverty, then you are ignoring history. You are ignoring the fact that Brazil is the only Ibero-American country in South America that was ruled by an emperor and that had a colonial structure imposed on it from Portugal, much of which still remains, especially in the northeast of Brazil. Do you think that the tradition of the "coroneis" came from the US?

Two of the greatest problems facing Brazil these days are corruption and impunity, both of which go hand in hand and both of which have nothing to do with the US. Paulo Maluf, as you may know, once ran for office in Sao Paulo on the slogan "Ele rouba, mas ele faz." This has absolutely nothing to do with the US. I know plenty of Brazilians here in New York who like the fact that someone like Alfred Taubman, the chairman of Sotheby's is in jail and they also are glad to see dishonest businessmen such as Dennis Kozlowski of Tyco, Grigas of Adelphia and the people who have been arrested thus far for being responsible for the collapse of Enron and WorldCom among others. They all tell me that this would never happen n Brazil. How is that the fault of the USA?

Your constant torrent of anti-Americanism does not help Brazil. As I posted the first time you commented, your efforts in trying to make the world a better place would be better spent in Brazil. Have you never heard the expression think globally, act locally?



Guest


11/23/2002
13:05:15
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Thanks for your eloquent effort, but I fear that it shall be wasted.


Adrianerik
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11/24/2002
03:56:59
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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In Africa there is a saying 'when the elephants fight - the mice get trampled'.

This discussion sways between two extremes - each extreme has its statistical basis. And yet, as with all extremes, statistics never tell the complete human story.

There is abysmal crime in Rio. But there is a reason why 70 to 80 percent of Brazil's population is clustered in the east, many occupying dismal favelas. There are global economic interests in Brazil that forces the mass migration of millions of people. Similar to the migration of the Oklahoma people (the Okies) in America in the 1930's (read Grapes of Wrath).

We too often resort to petty nationalism and forget our humanism. To paraphrase the Bible, "we war not against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities in high places".

That is not a spiritual statement but a political one. The 'coroneis' earn money by selling cash crops to American chocolate and coffee drinkers. Therefore Brazilians have to import American wheat to simple make bread.

It is silly to compare the historical developments of America and Brazil and think that in 2002 the countries should be equal. Brazilians should be aware of those historical facts that have hindered Brazil. Americans should know that racial progress here came initally at the barrels of guns and resistance.

We discuss too much from the basis of silly pride. It is even more difficult to use the terms "America" and "Brazil" as a representation of the accomplishments of the people as opposed to the polices of various American and Brazilian "regimes". The American regime of George Bush (the father) supported the gassing of Iranis by their friend Saddam. At that time we hated the Shiites and loved the Sunnis. Now we say we want to free the Shiites in Basra. Has anyone read 1984 by George Orwell? As an American I say question everything! American democracy does not stop at the voting booth. It starts there.

And to compare the concern that we Americans have for 'domestic' liberties as opposed to our extreme ignorance of the effects and purposes of our foreign policies is absurd.

The record of our support for fascist regimes is documented. (it's easier to make business deals with the oligarchies of facists than the centralized planners of the communists)

For example - Castro was not originally a communist. Actually he was against them. If you study history Castro wanted a group of non-aligned nations that supported neither the monopoly capitalism of the west nor the centralized planning of the east. But when the revolution against the dictator Batista started and the revolutionaries saw the American planes, they thought American had supported them. When the planes bombed the in the hills of the Sierra Madres indicationg support for the dictator, that radicalized Castro giving him a new definition for neo-colonialism.

Before Castro - Out of 6-7 million people, only 100,000 had access to education and health care. The United Fruit Company of the U.S. owned 66% of the entire country (the source of our cheap peaches and pears). Sounds similar.

Nothing will be accomplished by the Left's campaign of rhetoric. That is unfortunate. Buried somewhere deep in the rhetoric is the needs of people. But they choose to

And nothing will be, or has been, accomplished by Americans, with our heads in the sands, who do not, or can not, see the link between supporting 'American interests' that have nothing to do with democracy. We have unleased a predatory monopoly capitalism upon the world that hungers for profits and has destroyed nations the way that Wal-Mart has destroyed the small downtowns of America.

America barely survived the robbery of the Gettys, the Rockefellers, the J.P. Morgans who threw this country into a depression giving rise to anti-trusts legislation today. We barely survived the Michael Milkens of the 1980's who bought companies only to lay off all of the people just to earn a profit from the pieces of the company. I remember those times.

We protect ourselves yet support the very crooks in Brazil, Cuba, Nigeria and other places who are raping their people. We buy their cheap goods and turn our heads away when their right-wing governments crush any attempt by their people to organize and find a better life.

As long as we Americans want cheap coffee, cheap sex, cheap Nikes, the cities of São Paulo and Rio, and eventually Salvador, Recife, Fortaleza, etc will be packed with the poor and hopeless.

Does the U.S. cause everything. Of course not. Brazil has enormous social issues that have nothing to do with America. It's racism is appalling. As an African-American I have never seen so many beautiful black people who have so little self-esteem. When the aunt of my friend wants to embarrass her she calls her 'dark'. And this friend, in America, is infinitely more beautiful than the aunt. Even my 'white' friends (a useless word in Brazil) color their hair blonde in accordance with the latest Novela. We went christmas shopping for a neice and we were looking for hours for a Barbie with blonde hair because the black-haired neice will not touch any other kind. She will have enourmous image problems later in life.


USCIT
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11/24/2002
06:59:54
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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You make some good points Adrianerik, but kind of omit some saliant facts. For instance, while they shook the foundations of the country badly, the U.S. DID survive the Morgan's, Stanley's, Getty's, Hunt's, Enron, Anderson, and so on and got on with life. We're even surviving the Bushy's. (Hopefully) A thing I hate to admit, being almost radically opposed to them, is our social legal system. While we have the thieves, we have dozens yapping at their heels - legally and with impunity - to bring them down when they step out of line. We have to have the freedom for the thieves to exist for all to have the freedom to 'be all they can be'. But when caught out of line, we also have the system that will hound them unto death if they get too far off track. A process that is improving all of the time with the new laws that are just being passed making the CEO's and the like personally responsible.

The point being, for social reform, one of the first things needed in Brazil, (as it seems to me from what I see via the news etc.) is a reliable court system. Judges that are above reproach, bribery, and so on. That will come only from the demands of the people. Each and every time a Tammany Hall scenerio takes place without strong individual objection, the system crumbles.

As to the black vs white situation, I have little contribute. I come from the white comfortable side of society with little experience of prejudice on a daily basis. I'm well aware of the Jim Crow attitudes of some, and the defiance of some blacks against that. In my personal life I don't allow any Jim Crow's, nor do I allow any who are defiant. I have no reason to deal with it. I have no personal prejudice, while at the same time will not put up with some radical do-bopper invading my space. I am also aware that those (people of color - blacks) who conduct themselves in a civilized manner are often viewed by their peers as 'Uncle Tom's', Oreo's or whatever. Peer pressure can be a driving force. I 'still' don't put up with defiant behavior. Total point here being that while we are looking to equalize social justice for all, radical defiant behavior will never win the support of the quiet American. Neither here, nor do I believe, there.

As to child exploitation, that has existed almost since time began. It crosses every ethnic barrier, social barrier, economic barrier and so on that exists. Mainly perpetrated by those who themselves feel so inferior that they cannot have a decent normal relationship with an adult. And, as I understand it, it cannot be cured or treated with effectiveness. Half of the same side of the coin are those in it for personal profit who don't have any social justice within them.

You have mentioned much on this forum about the trials and ills of the children of Brazil and East Germany. Yet I ask, doesn't the same problem exist, just as strongly right here in the U.S.? I'm thinking of the young girl in the ghetto's of the U.S. who has nothing. No future, no role model. Usually talked into prostitution by someone she knows. Or gang raped, drugged, whatever, and forced into it. Essence there being that to stop that from happening, we have to revise the entire system. Prevent ANYONE from being faced with a situation where they feel they have no choice.

It could be done. Here. Brazil. East Germany. Anywhere. But the solution is almost worse than the problem, to most. Those most opposed to the solution would be the so called 'Christians' and their like. The adherents of family structure.

Stop allowing every female the right of birth just because she has ovaries. A world wide campaign of preventing all child births to all women (and men - except men don't have children) until after they have proven themselves capable of properly rearing a child.

Yes, I know the cries. "just because I'm poor doesn't mean I can't love." and so on. But it does mean that they might not be able to PROVIDE, care for and nurture.

Churches would be the worst. Its "GOD'S" will. I ask, how in the hell does any person on this earth know what "GOD'S" will is? But, they have a lot of votes.

At the same time, if they could be gotten around and a mandatory birth control pill given to every woman until she has a proven ability to 'properly' nurture a child; child abuse, much of the poverty, (cheap labor source) and so on would cease.

The solution is at hand and within reasonable cost limits, if people would act on it.


Randy Paul
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11/24/2002
14:26:25
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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>Thanks for your eloquent effort, but I fear that it shall be wasted.

Thanks for the acknowldgment, Zé. I think that you're right.

USCIT and Adrienik: On the subject of the Gettys and Morgans, a great Republican, Teddy Roosevelt took major steps to bust up such organizations and corrupt businesses. I have little faith that the current republican would do the same.

While I agree in part on the coroneis, what I found so objectinable to them and what has nothing to do with the US is the amount of influence that they have in their communities. If the US didn't exist would the coroneis not exist? I doubt it. They would probably still be as corrupt and as powerful. This as I've said countless times, has more to do with the Portuguese imperial tradition than anything else.

When Brazil became a republic, there were still many people - the poor among them - who supported a monarchy. No greater proof of that, in my opinion is the Canudos Rebellion. While there is a good argument for making this a primarily millenarian movement, the anti-republic aspect cannot be ignored.


Carlos
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11/24/2002
15:40:22
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Adrianerik:
"The American regime of George Bush (the father) supported the gassing of Iranis by their friend Saddam. At that time we hated the Shiites and loved the Sunnis"

Obviously this came from an American that does not support her president in war time and is likely a sore loser regarding the election (hence the word regime). The president was democratically elected according to the rules, get over it.


What some people seem unwilling or incapable of understanding is that sometimes you have to choose between two evils.
Does this equate to “loving” one side and hating the other???
Perhaps for the mind of a simpleton.

Since you are so smart miss africanamerican (American is not good enough for you?) enlighten us to the better ideas you had at that time to contain and control the Iranian brand of religious fundamentalism that is still hog-tying that country and was feared to spreading by many countries?

If support equals friend in your mind so be it. Not in mine. America gave Iraq financial support in order to contain and control the religious fundamentalism of Iran from spreading. Russia, Saudi Arabia and Turkey to mention a few were very worried about Iran, not Iraq at that time. Today it is different. The American government determined the spreading of the Iranian regime would be a very serious destabilizing force in these countries that we have serious relationships with. Perhaps those countries were also asking us to help Iraq.

I do not believe my fellow Americans with knowledge of the gassing gave Saddamn aid specifically for this purpose.
If you do, so be it.
Do you have any proof?
I have read that an agency was giving Saddamn aid (what form I do not remember) but that at the time we were unaware of the gassing.
If you do have proof to support your contention that President Bush is guilty of war crimes I suggest you contact the Hague War Crimes Tribunal,
I would like to read it.
Until I see proof I will continue to believe as I do now (and I believe most Americans 90%) that President Bush was not aware that American aid was given to Saddamn to support the gassing of any people and in fact had he been aware of it he would have done something to try and stop it.
Apparently you believe President Bush is another Hitler or Pol Pot.

What is it like to hate your fellow Americans, your own people to such a degree?
Or are you just black and not an American.
You must be a very sad person underneath the rhetoric to hate so much.



Anonymous
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11/24/2002
16:55:51
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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To Randy:

My opinion is that nowadays the "coronéis" are allowed to exist, since they have little economical power, and limited political power. Our loss...


Randy Paul
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11/24/2002
17:02:20
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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Carlos,

The mentality of the enemy of our enemy is our friend is one of the major reasons why we have faced the the threat of blowback recently.


Adrianerik
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11/24/2002
18:50:20
RE: USA doesn' respect the human rights!
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@carlos - try thinking before you write. And don't waste my time. do your own research. go to the library of congress and under the freedom of information act....educate yourself!

Don't TELL me what I think. ASK me what I think if you want to talk and keep a civil tongue in your head.

Now...try again. Let's be intelligent this time.

And it is MISTER! Pay attention.






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