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Subject: Escaping influence of American racism


Posted by sean
On Tuesday, April 10, 2001 at 19:40:10

Message:
Hi all,
I've had some severe problems with racial discrimination in northwest USA, where I've lived for most of my life. I know that American racism is a big part of American history (and culture, in some cases) so I'd like to escape this by expatriating to Brazil. I've done some research, but it does not go as in-depth as asking a real person. Is moving a good idea? Are there any major political/economical issues to be aware of? Can I get employed easily? Who is Xuxa?

-Sean
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Woody
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001 at 16:34:36

Message:
Move to Canada. Particularly Toronto.
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Rene Hass
On Wednesday, April 11, 2001 at 22:21:35

Message:
I am going to answer your last question. Xuxa is a former top model (from the early 80's) who started a career as TV show-woman. She has also recorded songs for children. Incidentally, she has one of worst voices I have ever heard. When she was a top model, she had an affair with former soccer player Pelé, who introduced her to the jet set. He also starred a pornographic movie when she was eighteen and in which she acts with an underage boy. Still in the 80's, she posed nude for many issues of the Brazilian edition of the Playboy Magazine. Today, she is regarded by many as one of the greatest Brazilian celebrities. Currently she has two weekly programs on Globo TV, the biggest broadcasting company in Brazil. In the late 90's, she had an affair with model Luciano Zaffir just to be impregnated, for being a mother was her greatest dream. As soon as her daughter was born, she got rid of Mr. Zaffir. For all her past and the issues she advocates, she is a very controversial person. People either like or hate her. I myself am one of those who don't like her.
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Paulo
On Friday, April 13, 2001 at 10:34:42

Message:
First of all, America is hardly a cesspool of racism and discrimination. Granted, I am not that familiar with the northwest. But I do know that for most Americans who feel "oppressed" due to their skin color, that "oppression" is self-imposed.

Perhaps you have endured true cases of unfair racial discrimination. That is hardly the norm in America, and perhaps you'd do well to simply relocate to another part of the country.

Brazil is in no way a racial paradise. Sure, there's plenty of intermingling among the races in Brazil, and you do see every hue of skin color in the streets. But make no mistake: racism is alive and well in Brazil. You will hear more explicit racial slurs in Brazil than in the United States. And blacks are certainly more likely to endure real discrimination in Brazil. Many black Americans who temporarily relocate to Brazil feel like second-class citizens there. I know of cases of where black American expats have been instructed to use the "service" elevator as opposed to the "social" elevator when visiting friends in their apartment complexes. While the concept of "white superiority" has been decisively repudiated in America, it remains deeply rooted in Brazilian culture (even among non-whites).

All that said, there are some ways in which interracial relations are warmer in Brazil than in the U.S. Notwithstanding the very real discrimination that exists in Brazil, there is none of the antagonism that often characterizes black-white relations in America. This is even more remarkable when you consider the fact that slavery lasted in Brazil long after the American Civil War. Interracial friendliness, and true friendship, is much easier to come by in Brazil than in the U.S. Interracial marriages are far more common in Brazil as well. Perhaps this is due in part to the lack of tension surrounding the race issue in Brazil. In America, an acute sense of past wrongs seems to make the social dynamics among the races more stilted. Blacks in America commonly view themselves as permanent victims; many harbor a long-standing resentment of white racism, real or perceived. Many whites feel unfairly blamed for misdeeds of the past. Others feel guilty, and therefore awkward. This social dynamic, taken for granted in America, is utterly non-existent in mainstream Brazilian life. And so there is a much freer and more carefree attitude towards race in Brazil. This allows the races to interact without awkwardness.

So, compared to America, Brazil has its pros and cons when it comes to race. I would not view as a place to "escape" to.


RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Ben
On Wednesday, April 25, 2001 at 08:01:55

Message:
I have to agree with Paulo who posted above. I am a caucasian American who has been here for three years teaching English. I am always surprised by how my Brazilian friends´ families have so many different colored family members, brown, black, white, all mixed together. But on the same token I have never taught a black nor "brown" student English. I have never seen a black C.E.O. at any company I have given class at, and most definately racial slurs are part of everyday language. You may feel more comfortable here but more likely because you are a "rich American" and not because race relations are so wonderful here. I see a lot more racism here in Brazil than I have ever seen in the US. It is unfortunate of course but true.

Oh yeah, about employment, if you want to teach English you will find work fairly easily. If, however, you are not a computer engineer or something along that line, you will have a really hard time finding employment which pays well. Unemployment is a big problem here as well as low wages.
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Ben
On Wednesday, April 25, 2001 at 08:03:19

Message:
I have to agree with Paulo who posted above. I am a caucasian American who has been here for three years teaching English. I am always surprised by how my Brazilian friends´ families have so many different colored family members, brown, black, white, all mixed together. But on the same token I have never taught a black nor "brown" student English. I have never seen a black C.E.O. at any company I have given class at, and most definately racial slurs are part of everyday language. You may feel more comfortable here but more likely because you are a "rich American" and not because race relations are so wonderful here. I see a lot more racism here in Brazil than I have ever seen in the US. It is unfortunate of course but true.

Oh yeah, about employment, if you want to teach English you will find work fairly easily. If, however, you are not a computer engineer or something along that line, you will have a really hard time finding employment which pays well. Unemployment is a big problem here as well as low wages.
Brazilian comunity in Atlanta
Posted by Frank Pellegrini
On Tuesday, May 08, 2001 at 14:21:46

Message:
I would like to find some links, address...about the Brazilian comunity in Atlanta. A friend of mine will move here from Sao Paulo, and she would be happy to find all the good advice possible for this kind of change
Brazilian comunity in Atlanta
Posted by Frank Pellegrini
On Tuesday, May 08, 2001 at 14:22:07

Message:
I would like to find some links, address...about the Brazilian comunity in Atlanta. A friend of mine will move here from Sao Paulo, and she would be happy to find all the good advice possible for this kind of change
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Pepe
On Friday, May 18, 2001 at 12:13:48

Message:
Well, I DO NOT agree with Paulo nor Ben. I am brasilian and I don't think the brasilian people are racists. The problem of Brasil is money. Cause of our history, the slavery, bla bla bla bla... We finished in a situation that the major part of blacks are poor and the major of the whites are rich. I am doing a mistake in defining the people of Brasil in black and whitre, cause we have mixed a lot here. The problem of Brasil is not racism, our problem is money. A poor white is in the same shit as a poor black. A rich white is treated the same way a rich black. I hope you understand what I mean. Just to ilustrate that we don't have racism in Brasil (of course we have racism, but its sooo low compared to other regions like USA) I have to say that by my side I have a black, in my front I have a japanese. There is an Arab, an Argentinian and so go on. We have no problems of relationship and of course we all are in a high level job.
About your coming to Brasil. I just encourage you to come here as a tourist. There is a lot of good places to visit. I suggest you visit at least one city at each region of Brasil specially: São Paulo-SP, Salvador-BA, Manaus-AM, Brasilia-DF, Gramado-RS and if you want Rio de Janeiro-RJ.
I really don't suggest you to live here. One of the biggest brasilian problems is unemployment. If you come here or you would find difficulties to find a job or you would take a job from a brasilian who needs it. Anyway, it's your choice.
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Pepe
On Friday, May 18, 2001 at 12:14:28

Message:
Well, I DO NOT agree with Paulo nor Ben. I am brasilian and I don't think the brasilian people are racists. The problem of Brasil is money. Cause of our history, the slavery, bla bla bla bla... We finished in a situation that the major part of blacks are poor and the major of the whites are rich. I am doing a mistake in defining the people of Brasil in black and whitre, cause we have mixed a lot here. The problem of Brasil is not racism, our problem is money. A poor white is in the same shit as a poor black. A rich white is treated the same way a rich black. I hope you understand what I mean. Just to ilustrate that we don't have racism in Brasil (of course we have racism, but its sooo low compared to other regions like USA) I have to say that by my side I have a black, in my front I have a japanese. There is an Arab, an Argentinian and so go on. We have no problems of relationship and of course we all are in a high level job.
About your coming to Brasil. I just encourage you to come here as a tourist. There is a lot of good places to visit. I suggest you visit at least one city at each region of Brasil specially: São Paulo-SP, Salvador-BA, Manaus-AM, Brasilia-DF, Gramado-RS and if you want Rio de Janeiro-RJ.
I really don't suggest you to live here. One of the biggest brasilian problems is unemployment. If you come here or you would find difficulties to find a job or you would take a job from a brasilian who needs it. Anyway, it's your choice.
RE: Escaping influence of American racism
Posted by Pepe
On Friday, May 18, 2001 at 12:15:32

Message:
Well, I DO NOT agree with Paulo nor Ben. I am brasilian and I don't think the brasilian people are racists. The problem of Brasil is money. Cause of our history, the slavery, bla bla bla bla... We finished in a situation that the major part of blacks are poor and the major of the whites are rich. I am doing a mistake in defining the people of Brasil in black and whitre, cause we have mixed a lot here. The problem of Brasil is not racism, our problem is money. A poor white is in the same shit as a poor black. A rich white is treated the same way a rich black. I hope you understand what I mean. Just to ilustrate that we don't have racism in Brasil (of course we have racism, but its sooo low compared to other regions like USA) I have to say that by my side I have a black, in my front I have a japanese. There is an Arab, an Argentinian and so go on. We have no problems of relationship and of course we all are in a high level job.
About your coming to Brasil. I just encourage you to come here as a tourist. There is a lot of good places to visit. I suggest you visit at least one city at each region of Brasil specially: São Paulo-SP, Salvador-BA, Manaus-AM, Brasilia-DF, Gramado-RS and if you want Rio de Janeiro-RJ.
I really don't suggest you to live here. One of the biggest brasilian problems is unemployment. If you come here or you would find difficulties to find a job or you would take a job from a brasilian who needs it. Anyway, it's your choice.

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