Brazzil

But stop harming yourselves FIRST !
BRAZIL has the World Highest Interests Rates after inflation.....penalizing THEMSELVES FIRST !

Most emerging nations have already cut their rates more than once recently despite their rates were already lower than yours and with a similar inflation rate than yours !!!!

Time to wake up and act...BRAZIL !!!!

YOU LAG NEARLY ALL YOUR PEERS...AS USUAL, AND DONT STOP CRITICIZING DEVELOPED NATIONS WITH QUITE SOME ARROGANCE....INSTEAD OF CLEANING YOUR OWN STICKY DIRTS !

And if Brazil is better managed than developed countries, why dont they lend foreign currencies instead of borrowing...to foreign institutions in developed nations ???

Your cricitics are full of contradictions...as usual !!!!

Yesssss....why your banks, apparently better capitalized, get government help ? smiles
Yesssss....why your banks, apparently better capitalized and better managed, dont lend US$ or Euros to U.S. or Eurpeans banks AND companies.

but as I always say....cheaters always cheat, hiders always hide and liars always lie !

Who could prove me wrong ?

I think you asked the other day how much down payment is required for a house or apartment in Brazil. I think it's a minimum of 20% thru the Caixa. You can finance 80%.

I asked a question...only !

As per Joao's recent answer the down payment could be as low as 3 % up to 20 % !!!!!
And the mortgage rates he mentionned was 14,33 % FROM WHAT HE SAW by looking at a bank internet site !

Quite a difference.....as low as 3 % or 20 % !

And your answer doesnt answer at all my points stated in the above thread ! Please re-read again what I meant also in my others comments!I was not talking about Brazilian banks lendings but
- the interests rates charged by Brazilian banks to individuals for mortgages rates and cars rates, consumers goods rates, overdraft rates,
-and the rates charged to your small and mid sizes companies that are charged an average borrowing rates of around 40 %

And these rates have to be compared with your average inflation rates
which is around 5-6 % now !

Your rates are simply UNSUSTAINABLE.
Your rates are UNHEARD ELSEWHERE...with similar inflation ! UNHEARD including in other EMERGING nations with similar inflation !

On top of that in the above thread I meant that if your banks are better managed than ours.....
- why did they needed the government support ?
- why is there so many mergers...if everything is going fine ?
- Better yet, why are STATE OWNED BANKS being merged with GOVERNMENT OWNED BANKS ? Something BIG...VERY BIG is hidden !
- If your banks are so good, why do your banks look for foreign financings in foreign currencies ? Myself, a simple individual, with sufficient collateral can obtain a loan in WHATEVER CURRENCIES of my choice...using either a Swiss Bank, a French Bank, a Spanish bank, a UK bank, a U.S. bank....and at competitive interests rate...LOWER than what a much more wealthy Brazilian can get at a Brazilian bank...I repeat....for a foreign currency loan!

Is this due because your banks are better managed ? smiles

But also true that they request more collateral than before, and they make MORE profits than earlier. Interests went down nearly everywhere but banks rates did not !
But somewhat normal since everyone accused them - RIGHTLY - to have had OVER LENT !!!!!! therefore quite rightly they reduced their lendings and on top of that are stricter than before in their lendings rigidity policies ...since they were doing the opposite that made these HUGE losses !

I dont really understand where the actual critics could be right !
When in facts the banks had to be criticzed when they OVER LENT AS THEY DID EARLIER !!!! A minority of experts predicted ALL that mess well before it surfaced. NO ONE LISTENED !
the World over, from Governments to companies to individuals got
during 3 to 5 years LOANS they should not have gotten...neither in size nor at the rates that were charged.
Including the Brazilian government and Brazilians companies.
And for some companies...these easy loans were not enough for their regular business. On top some SPECULATED in the currencies.... !
Short memory...Ric.
What you probably dont know is that there is more to come...from some of your companies. FAR MORE TO COME !
And what you most probably dont know either that some of your companies have also SPECULATED IN THEIR OWN STOCK PRICE !
Notably CSN...if you look at the news !

And let me also tell you this,that you are certainly not aware, since you are not in the financial world, is that contrary to what you read.....BRAZIL IS FULL OF.....STRUCTURED NOTES !
They are everywhere in all types of forms !
Not all of them will be profitable. Many will incur huge losses.
THINGS WILL COME ON THE SURFACE....DONT WORRY !!!!
This could explain what is preciously hidden as said above...for the
mergers of STATE OWNED BANKS...INTO GOVERNMENT OWNED BANKS !!!!


just think about it !

Nothing adds up in Brazil....except the interests rates...the World Highest...after inflation ! Very similar to...TURKEY...if you look at more closely.

Hmmmm.
Enjoy

Still waiting you prove me wrong Ric !

Better yet, why are STATE OWNED BANKS being merged with GOVERNMENT OWNED BANKS ? Something BIG...VERY BIG is hidden !

THINGS WILL COME ON THE SURFACE....DONT WORRY !!!!
This could explain what is preciously hidden as said above...for the
mergers of STATE OWNED BANKS...INTO GOVERNMENT OWNED BANKS !!!!

Can't we start talking about what is really going on?

I said that one could finance up to 80% with the CEF. Some builders finance more, especially in the initial stages of the construction phase.

Besides, I never said I would set out to prove you wrong in anything. Go back and read it.

This could explain what is preciously hidden as said above...for the
mergers of STATE OWNED BANKS...INTO GOVERNMENT OWNED BANKS !!!!

Ch.C sometimes misses my questions posted in the sister site. I had asked him about SAFRA in one of the threads in that one. He must know the answer, as he deals with bankers from many countries including Brazil.In fact I had posted a news item for him and I think he missed it. BTW, he knew about UNIBANCO a few weeks ago and was spot on. Though the management of both ITAU and UNIBANCO claim that the merger talks have been going on for the past 15 months, I don't think so. The merger took place to save UNIBANCO and Ric has mentioned about it elsewhere, though in a very diplomatic manner. With this "Merger", the two banks became the largest one in LatAm and Mantega leaving Banco do Brasil behind. Mantega said that if BB was to become the "leader" again, it has to run after money!

Last week there were talks that SAFRA, Nossa Caixa (a SP state owned bank) and (guess what) Votarentim Bank were going to be "bought" or "merged" ( ) and the announcement was to be made on Monday ( the 10th). I didn't hear any announcement and I expect it to be made the Monday after G-(20-1) "Summit"..

BUT....BUT.... IMHO, BB is ultimately going to be bought (or "merged")by A Private bank!! Very strange considering that BB is filled with "cronies". BUT....BUT...., I have seen this flick before with respect to the Government owned Telecoms. Nothing is impossible.

Now it is the turn of Ch.c and Ric to come out with counter comments. Please do remember that I am not in the Financial World.

But...but...it is nearly done.
the "only" problem is the payment to Nossa Caïxa shareholders.
the Government wants to pay the shareholders on "installments" for about 3 years and Nossa Caixa says Noooo..... they want more upfront money if/and when the deal is done.

On SAFRA
I heard nothing. Sorry !
But for your info I knew very well Elie Safra, brother of Edmond which I also knew but only somewhat !
Both lived in Geneva for decades.
Edmond (he was the brains and the entrepreneur), Elie was the black sheep..but still the brother !
Edmond built here Trade Development Bank, then he acquired Republic National Bank - New York, on top of the other parts of his empire.
And later he sold the merged banks bearing the Republic National Bank name for $ 9 B. to HSBC.
To avoid some taxes he moved to Monaco where he was killed by one of his maid who put a fire to his penthouse in Monaco !

And since a few years, now there is also Jacob Safra Bank here in town. But I know nothing in particular about that bank !!!!

And for the fun of it.....yeaaaaaarrrs ago, I talked daily to the black sheep Elie. Old guy already then, I suppose he died by now !

Anything else ?
Remember I was an Institutional Sales Broker for large American firms in Geneva for "only" 31 years -
1972 - 2003

Smiles

the Government wants to pay the shareholders on "installments" for about 3 years and Nossa Caixa says Noooo..... they want more upfront money if/and when the deal is done.

Right. The same thing with Votarentim also. Old Tony wants to sell just 50% of the bank and still wants to hold control over it. He has 127 agencies and he thinks that by "merging" with BB, he could save his empire. He is a sharp-shooter and I don't blame him for trying it!!

And for the fun of it.....yeaaaaaarrrs ago, I talked daily to the black sheep Elie. Old guy already then, I suppose he died by now !

Why don't you try to revive your old contact with Elie (if he is not dead yet) and find out about SAFRA ? BTW, I know the story about good ole Edmond!

Remember I was an Institutional Sales Broker for large American firms in Geneva for "only" 31 years -
1972 - 2003

Yes, I do remember your mentioning many times. BUT....BUT.... 1972-2003 sounds like the dates you engrave on a tombstone. I ain't ready to tell ya yet to R.I.P.

Cheers

Dnbaiacu
- Welll...as I said....BRAZIL IS FULL OF SRUCTURED NOTES in all type of forms. That is not my analysis....but from good sources I printed here.
- I cant see Brazilians lenders not taking HUGE HUGE losses when they provide mortgages at 13-15 % while the inflation is around 5-6 % ! Just think about it. UNSUSTAINABLE for most borrowers !
This is a wealth destruction for both the borrowers and the lenders...JUST WAITING TO HAPPEN ! When ? No idea but not too far away in my opinion.
- Same for cars loans, consumers loans and overdrafts with even much much higher lending rates ! Consumers loans are relatively ok because if I am not wrong you pay in installments but for 12 or 24 months.
- But cars loans are longer terms !
- Overdrafts ? who cares when they cant repay even the principal, let alone the 200 % interests that will keep the total SNOWBALLING..... EXPONENTIALLY ?????
Would you care if you have no property, your bank account in red and eventually lose your job ? Even if you dont lose your job...they cant seize 50 or 100 % of a small salary !
At least...I would not care ! smiles
At one point it could be similar to the USA.....you just give the key of your home to your bank. In that case it is better....you just give back your credit card ! What has been spent had been weared or digested anyway. Cant give it back !Sorry !smiles
Just think about it ! No one should end up in jail...due to a bank debt !

Joao
on your down payments UP to 80 % here is what you wrote :
"The mortgage rate financed by Caixa Economica Federal (CEF) is currently 14.33% a year. The mortgage period is 15 years (Formerly it used to be 25 years). The down payment has to be negotiated with the building company (or the Real Estate Agencies) and varies from one to another. I have seen advertisements for as low as 3% and as high as 20% of the property value. The CEF pays part of it too."

I then asked you how come the CEF PAYS PART OF IT TOO ?

I was later amazed that you and Augustus found that rate LOW !
It is may low based on history...but...but...but iot is very very very
HIGH....on an after inflation basis.
UNSUSTAINABLE for both the lender and the borrower as stated earlier.

No doubt I understand LULA fears...when time will come....to take up the losses !!!!

On a lighter notem here is a good one on Sarkozy :
" French President Nicolas Sarkozy asked a Paris court for an emergency order to stop the sale of a voodoo kit complete with a presidential doll, needles, and guidebook after the company refused to withdraw it voluntarily.

K&B Publishers infringed the president's exclusive right to his image, lawyers for Sarkozy said at a hearing in Paris on Oct. 24.

``The unauthorized use of his image on a voodoo doll destined to be pricked with pins cannot be justified,'' Thierry Herzog, Sarkozy's lawyer, told the court. French law gives each person control of his image ``whatever his status or notoriety.''

The lawsuit is at least the sixth personal claim filed by Sarkozy this year. The suits include complaints about printing an image of his wife, Carla Bruni, and a text message from Sarkozy to his ex-wife offering to cancel the Bruni wedding.

The lawsuits ``banalize the office of the presidency,'' Laurent Dubois, a political-science professor at Sorbonne University in Paris, said in an interview Oct. 24. Withdrawing the dolls would be ``totally disproportionate considering the playful and humorous look of the kit,'' K&B said in an e-mailed statement Oct. 23.

Smiles

here are the 2 news
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/...Xfa.kMgDo

(in one line)

and then today
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=BNCA3:BZ&sid=aJ6YSHAWE1Gs

(also in one line)

the first news is

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=conewsstory&refer=conews&tkr=BNCA3:BZ&sid=afjXfa.kMgDo

This article emphasizes an earlier comment made by CH-C which I originally criticized... NO other country enjoys boasting and showing off more than Brazil! What makes the case worse is that there are very concrete facts (as opposed to illusions) to back up the claims...

The only part of the editorial I enjoyed, quite frankly was the picture of Greater Sao Paulo, my favorite Brazilian city!

Proven....time and again !
Just read today's article on China and India ! thus far I just read the headline.

What I know is that both of these countries dont boast themselves as much as Brazil does, and that they both have A FAR FAR FAR FAR higher economic growth rate than Brazil....and for far far far far longer than BRAZIL !
For China it is around 10 % for well over 10 years
for India it is over 7 % since 1991 !

Reality is this, since Lula Reigns :
Brazil has
- the LOWEST economic growth rate of the Mercosur members
- the LOWEST economic growth rate of the BRIC members
- One of the LOWEST economic growth rate of ALL developing nations...on earth. Including some SUB SAHARA countries.
- One of the LOWEST economic growth rate of South America including the Caribeans countries !!!!

But listening to Bin the Crook and many Brazilians Junkies, no doubt that they are the best.

But...but...but.....NONE OF THEM CAN PROVE IT.....OBVIOUSLY !!!!!

Conclusion : Brazil is a mirage not a miracle economy !
In my view most Brazilians Junkies better continue their monoline (handjob) sexual mental orgy !
And let me state clearly, that Nooooo other emerging country is self boasting as much as Brazilians do....despite nearly all of them had a superior economic growth rate !
But...but....but.....in Brazil, brainswashing WORKS !!!!!!
Just repeat them a hundred times the same lies, and lies become reality...they think ! Plastic dolls should be very popular...in Brazil !

FYI:

http://www.estadao.com.br/econ...7116,0.htm

If you don't understand written Portuguese (I bet you do), I am sure our buddies Augustus and Dnb will be able to translate for you.

BTW, I knew the final decision will be taken only after HIS return from Washington.

BUT....BUT.... IMHO, BB is ultimately going to be bought (or "merged")by A Private bank!! Very strange considering that BB is filled with "cronies". BUT....BUT...., I have seen this flick before with respect to the Government owned Telecoms.

Again....

Can't we start talking about what is really going on?

You obviously get the point huh

Doggie style maybe?

What people outside of Brazil may not know is that when a house or apartment is financed by the CEF, sometimes the price and the size of the payments are not determined by how much it cost to build nor what the appraised value is, but by the size of the buyer's salary.

Which is why such properties are often sold thru a power of attorney therefore not involving a change of name until the loan is paid off.

I don't know if you read the news that CEF is going to finance the purchase of furnitures, kitchen appliances, etc; up to the amount of R$10,000 for the "Povão". According to what I read, the order is to spend. Lula now has the blessings of the Pope to solve the economic crisis as he deems fit.

Something is not right. The emphasis is not on buying properties nor on "saving for the rainy days", but to spend on superfluous goods. Does not make sense.

As a degreed economist, I have a fundamental disagreement with the opening paragraph of this article. The crisis first became evident in the U.S., but it would not have spread through the world if the other nations of the world had not made themselves vulnerable by engaging in their own shady financial practices and as a result had economic bubbles of their own. It's not fair to blame only the U.S. for the current situation.

Time will tell what latent problems exist within Brazil. At the very least, some large enterprises have engaged in reckless speculation.

Time will tell what latent problems exist within Brazil. At the very least, some large enterprises have engaged in reckless speculation.

I give about 4 months time to tell us about the "latent" problems in Brazil.Those "large" enterprises that engaged in reckless speculation are going to pressurize the government to bail them out through the State owned banks. Just watch a new drama unfolding.

Brazil is just trying a different position....

It is not just Brazil in a doggie style, but I think that it is the entire UNASUR.

Ask for the Pope´s blessings to spend and keep tuned.

If UNASUR ends up on the bottom in the doggie style position, then who is going to do the "spending"?

UNASUR ends up on the bottom in the doggie style position, then who is going to do the "spending"?

Had to laugh at that one.
Joao like you said "SOMETHING" is going on and it is becoming more apparent by the day.

Something is not right. The emphasis is not on buying properties nor on "saving for the rainy days", but to spend on superfluous goods. Does not make sense.

This is the exact same scenario the U.S went through. And the temptation is hard to resist. This is what makes it such a "principles" matter. The system is intent on luring and sucking people in.
My question is. Will it be that one just FEARS not having credit and obliged themselves to the whims of the "state".??? Or do you "really" have to worry about paying your debts? What difference will it make?
If everyone is going to "default", why be so conscious and pay off your debt? Will it be worth it? Is the fear imaginary? Will they put you in jail? This will be interesting to see how this plays out. Will your freedom be restricted because of the amount of debt you owe?

Where is Ch.c when we need him?
What is the intrinsic advantage to everyone being in debt? Is it psychological? Or will it have "tangible" individual consequences?

What is the CEF? And does it have any real connection to the Catholic church?
If so, I am not surprised they are playing a major role in the scheme of things even on this level.

Venda da Nossa Caixa será concluída no meu retorno, diz Lula
Presidente afirma que vai se reunir com Mantega e Serra para saber se há possibilidade de fechar a negociação

Leonêncio Nossa, da Agência Estado
Tamanho do texto? A A A A
ROMA - O presidente Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva disse nesta quinta-feira, 13, que só quando retornar ao Brasil, na próxima semana, a negociação em torno da compra da Nossa Caixa pelo Banco do Brasil, deverá ser concluída. "Vou ter uma conversa com o ministro Guido Mantega (Fazenda), o governador José Serra (São Paulo) e o Banco do Brasil, para saber se há possibilidade", afirmou Lula, em entrevista coletiva, na sede da embaixada do Brasil, em Roma, antes de embarcar para Washington.

TRANSLATION
“NOSSA CAIXA” sale will be concluded upon my return, mentioned Lula
President certifies that he will meet with Manteiga & Serra in order to inquire about the possibility of finalizing the negitiation.
ROMA – Brazilian president Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva mentioned this past Thursday, 13th, that only after his return to Brazil, next week, there should be any tangible negotiation pertaining to the purchase of NOSSA CAIXA by Banco do Brasil next week – when it is anticipatged for such negotiation to be concluded. “I will discuss (have a conversation) with Minister Guido Mantega (Finance), with Governor Jose Serra (São Paulo) and with Banco do Brasil, in order to find out whether such deal is viable” – reaffirmed Lula, during an Interview provided at the Brazilian embassy in Rome, just before leaving for Washington DC.”

What is the CEF? And does it have any real connection to the Catholic church?

As I said before, you are a born conspirator ! CEF is the abbreviation for Caixa Economica Federal. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, though many of its employees are Catholics ( ). It is a Federal bank that operates only in the territory of Brazil (unlike Banco do Brasil, which has branches in several countries). The pension funds of all the employees (whether of private firms or Government) are deposited in that bank. In turn, they finance construction of homes and commercial buildings. Also they manage the lotteries (another huge source of income). Anyone can open a bank account with them. Right now CEF and BB (Banco do Brasil) are solid banks, though "cronies" have been placed in the top management.I have dealt with several banks both private and Federal (and state banks) and I like both CEF & BB (and some state banks).

However during the past 5 or 6 years, the private banks have been going on lending spree as though tomorrow does not exist. For the past two months, we have been hearing about the news about 200 private companies that got into Financial trouble because of the currency speculation and some private banks are in trouble because of bad loans.

Even though it is early to tell, I think that the private banks are going to be sold to the Federal banks for far higher prices than the book value (along with the bad debts) enabling their stock holders to make huge profits. A few months later, the Federally owned banks (by a Presidential decree) will write off the loans taken by the "poor" people to buy cars, TVs, Furnitures, Cell phones, etc; The honest middle class who never defaulted on their loan payments will again be left sucking their thumbs. Believe me, it has happened before.

It is also amazing that our Prez spent almost a week in Italy, met the Pope, talked to Silvio Berlusconi, announced Dilma as his preferred successor (She was also introduced to the Pope) and he is going to Washington D.C to attend the conference tomorrow.Oh, lets not forget that he said HE would take a decision about BB buying Nossa Caixa after he returns from Washington.

True, Ch.C has gone AWOL when his analysis is required.

Thank you for translating it! What do you think that is going on? I know your are itching to comment.

If UNASUR ends up on the bottom in the doggie style position, then who is going to do the "spending"?

First we spend and then we go doggie style position. Remember, Obama is the new bogeyman in town starting Jan 20th.

"Jesus saves but Onan spends."

This might apply in this situation, in a metaphorical sense.

"Jesus saves but Onan spends."

This might apply in this situation, in a metaphorical sense.

You are leaving too many fingerprints, Old Chap. Better take a refresher course at M.I.6.

us and them (with echo)..
after all, we are only ordinary men...

Pink Floyd..circa 1973

Huh? What the f**k are you talking about?

'Ta louco, meu! O que 'ta fumando?

"......n"= "Me".

".." is Not = "Me".

Then, who is "Me"? Must be an ET.

..who are you..who..who....the Who cica 1978

..who are you..who..who....the Who cica 1978

Circa 1976.

I am not sure where our tangent is going but....

Who Are You is the eighth album by English rock band The Who. It was released in August 1978 on Polydor Records in the United Kingdom and on MCA Records in the United States

OK, "...", you just proved without a doubt that you are out of your friggin' mind. Any comments to make that are acutally related to ANY valid topic on this thread?

I'm not sure what to think about Banco do Brasil purchasing NOSSA CAIXA... By the way, I presume this NOSSA CAIXA is what I used to know as "Caixa Economica Federal"...

Well, since the Brazilian president, the Minister of Finance, and the governor of Sao Paulo state are involved (talking about it behind doors) it is almost obvious that this deal represents nothing short of a Brazilian "bail out" of Caixa... What else?

me,

Lighten up you degreed economist

By the way, I presume this NOSSA CAIXA is what I used to know as "Caixa Economica Federal"...

NO. Do you remember that there used to be "Caixa Ecomomica Estadual" in each state years ago, apart from "Banco do Estado". "Nossa Caixa" is Caixa Economica do SP. Nothing to do with Federal. "Nossa Caixa" made losses and now BB )Banco do Brasil" is supposed to bail it out. I don't know why Caixa Economica Federal" cant or wont do it.

Please read the exchange of comments between Dnb and myself. Shall kepp you posted. Cheers.

You better assume your real ID, old chap. Or else we will send good ole Jimmy Bond to hunt you down ruthlessly.

Obama has already appointed numerous key positions in the white house who are from the neoconservative Zionist cabal who surrounded Bush (if you still don't understand Bush's 8 years of focus on the middle-east look to a little country called Israel).

One of the most powerful appointments is Rahm Emanuel to Chief of Staff. Rahm was former Chief of Freddie Mac during the fraudulent profit reports now investigated by the SEC. Rahm was a key player in the Bush admin, known by many to be Bush's real puppet master. Rahm is a Zionist jew and holds an Israeli passport. Rahm's mother was a founding member of the Mossad, Israel's intelligence agency. Rahm's father was a founding member of the Irgun Terrorist group who slaughter 10s of 1000s of Palestinians in the late 40s causing 100s of 1000s of Palestinians to flee their homes to neighbouring states. Rahm's family was one of the major founding families of Israel. And Obama just appointed him Chief of Staff?

By the way, Obama wasnt even born in the US. He was born in Kenya and his Birth Certificate is a fraud. He isn't legally President Elect.

I don't think so people. The only change we have here is a Change of Style in Rhetoric. Washington is still a Zionist Occupied Government. Nothing has changed. Obama is perhaps even worse than Bush because he has the whole world memorized and suckered in his NLP rhetoric.

Because I wish I had the whole world memorized. Great accomplishment.

D'ya, it was a typo. But typical of the sheeple class to pick out a triviality in order to avoid confronting the argument of the thread.

mesmerized
memorized

Yes the object of Zionist-controlled and censored western media is for the mainstream to memorize trivialities. With this accomplishment they are mesmerized, and unable to see what is hidden in plain sight.

How could the value of the US dollar against the Real be continually increasing over the last three months when the US have been printing over a trillion of dollars of paper money to bail out the banks?
How can printing money make the dollar stronger?
The value of the dollar against the Real has stably and continuosly climbed over the last three months.

If anyone was thinking about doing the US50000 investment scheme to get residency in Brasil and open a business in Brasil or buy a house in Brasil, then NOW is the time to do it.

If I had transfered US$50,000 into Reals at it weakest day in the the last three months then I would have gotten:
1.62600 x 50000 = R$81300

But if I transfer US$50000 now, hoping the dollar will stay up for another month,
2.52480 = 50000 = R$126,240

Can an economist here please explain to me? We KNOW the US dollar shouldn't be worth as much as it was.

Comparitively, the Australian dollar against the Real over the last three months has been unstable and fluctuating between a far lesser differential.

Conversion Table: USD to BRL (Interbank rate)

Time period: 09/01/08 to 11/21/08.
Daily averages:

09/01/2008 1.63260000
09/02/2008 1.64060000
09/03/2008 1.65570000
09/04/2008 1.66720000
09/05/2008 1.68860000
09/06/2008 1.72580000
09/07/2008 1.73790000

09/08/2008 1.73790000
09/09/2008 1.73260000
09/10/2008 1.74680000
09/11/2008 1.77710000
09/12/2008 1.80020000
09/13/2008 1.79610000
09/14/2008 1.78830000

09/15/2008 1.78830000
09/16/2008 1.80230000
09/17/2008 1.82340000
09/18/2008 1.84880000
09/19/2008 1.90340000
09/20/2008 1.86900000
09/21/2008 1.82600000

09/22/2008 1.82600000
09/23/2008 1.81410000
09/24/2008 1.81170000
09/25/2008 1.84790000
09/26/2008 1.84670000
09/27/2008 1.84240000
09/28/2008 1.85720000

09/29/2008 1.85720000
09/30/2008 1.90010000
10/01/2008 1.94120000
10/02/2008 1.92240000
10/03/2008 1.96710000
10/04/2008 2.02470000
10/05/2008 1.97580000

10/06/2008 2.03000000
10/07/2008 2.10980000
10/08/2008 2.21590000
10/09/2008 2.36650000
10/10/2008 2.25310000
10/11/2008 2.28100000
10/12/2008 2.31250000

10/13/2008 2.31250000
10/14/2008 2.24180000
10/15/2008 2.11180000
10/16/2008 2.13150000
10/17/2008 2.21890000
10/18/2008 2.13630000
10/19/2008 2.16850000

10/20/2008 2.16850000
10/21/2008 2.11400000
10/22/2008 2.17280000
10/23/2008 2.32270000
10/24/2008 2.35630000
10/25/2008 2.30420000
10/26/2008 2.29200000

10/27/2008 2.29200000
10/28/2008 2.28150000
10/29/2008 2.20550000
10/30/2008 2.15060000
10/31/2008 2.12070000
11/01/2008 2.13230000
11/02/2008 2.19700000

11/03/2008 2.19700000
11/04/2008 2.17250000
11/05/2008 2.14710000
11/06/2008 2.12400000
11/07/2008 2.15750000
11/08/2008 2.18850000
11/09/2008 2.15880000

11/10/2008 2.15880000
11/11/2008 2.15830000
11/12/2008 2.20800000
11/13/2008 2.26690000
11/14/2008 2.32510000
11/15/2008 2.29570000
11/16/2008 2.30880000

11/17/2008 2.30880000
11/18/2008 2.28330000
11/19/2008 2.30050000
11/20/2008 2.36780000
11/21/2008 2.39870000

Nouriel Roubini gives four reasons why we are in for stagnation with deflation, not inflation.

1. Slack in the goods markets.
2. Recoupling of the rest of the world with the US recession.
3. Slack in labor markets [headline of the moment: Obama warns of millions of jobs in danger next year].
4. Sharp fall in commodity prices.

The extra liquidity now being injected in the hundreds of billions, says he, is and will be soaked up by demand.

My comment: the secular tendency is towards inflation, he is talking about short and mid-term inflation problems. Pick a realistic number: four years, five, six, ten.

My comment: for the next two years this liquidity will be sucked up like a thousand thirsty camels in the Gobi, but it will sound as bad as a room full of Hungarians slurping soup.

Hedging, derivatives, the real estate bubble, was ephemeral. Like Coyote Creek between LA and Orange county, or the Rio Jaguaribe.

Except sometimes Coyote Creek really has water sometimes. Trillions of dollars existed on paper, but they disappeared. Gone with the Wind. They left a big hole that has to be filled if commerce is to continue.

Gone with the Wind.

That was a very good film, old chap. Vivian Leigh was a gorgeous lass, I must admit.

Are you saying that if there weren't trillion dollar bail outs that the US dollar would be even stronger against the Real than the climb we've seen for the last three months?

I was listening to some radio interviews as far back as September 2007 and they were warning that exectly what has happened now would happen between April-September 2008, the deadline being the US Presedential elections. They said there would be 100s of financial institutions declare insolvency between April-September. Well, that is exactly what ended up happening.

Tuesday, November 20

Muhammad Rafeeq
Causes of the financial crisis fully explained.
» Part 1 (6 MB)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/TFC.2007.11.20.Tue.Rafeeq.1of2.mp3
» Part 2 (6 MB)
http://www.iamthewitness.com/audio/Muhammad.Rafeeq/TFC.2007.11.20.Tue.Rafeeq.2of2.mp3
Miles Davis - Freddie Freeloader


Thats what I'm talking about. Fractional Reserve Banking.
Lets say there country with 700,000 citizens.
The bank is allowed to lend 9 times the amount he has in his pocket.
A guy borrows 1 million dollars. The banks gives him the money, whether digitally or in paper.
The guy buys 1 million of televisions and pays all his suppliers digital . And then sells them all for 1.1 milliocash. That covers his interest charged on the loan. He pays the bank back 1.1 million and then lets say he only broke even.
And lets say the bank hasn't done any other loans since the guy loaned off them the 1 million digital.
The bank can now lend 10 million dollars more than they could when the guy first loaned off them. Lets say that the guy pays the bank back in cash. The bank could just pay that 1.1 million cash to one of their executives into his personal account, and remain being able to loan the same as what they could before the guy came. Because remember, they loaned 1 million to the guy which they didn't have and then he walked in with a suitcase full of 1.1 million cash after selling his televisions.

So now the executive has 1.1 million cash. The government takes their tax and lets say he is left with 700,000 cash.

You see what just happened? I live in this country. And I left my house with 10 dollar notes in my pocket to visit a friend. When I got there, I couldn't explain it, but there were only 9 dollar notes in my pocket. So I assumed I must have lost it.
Well I did lose it. And so did all 700,000 citizens. They all just lost 1 dollar note from their pocket.
The bank and their executive just STOLE $700,000 off the country.

Oh yeh, and notice that the government is in on it too? They just taxed the people for nothing! The government just stole 300,000 off the people.

So now we see why the government is in with the bankers. The bankers are in with the government. This is invisible tax. Sure, the government is going to invest that money supposedly back into society. But we know at least the bank and their executive just stole 700,000.

This is a radio lecture that was on today that will probably blow every you economists every thought you knew out of the water:

http://64.72.126.49/PubPodcast//crash/112408.mp3 (6.1 MB)

I meant Business Cycle. It was a Freudian slip.

Now that the banks are being allowed to continue to create so much money out off nothing, literally robbing the citizens magically, they can start going around buying up utilities and media outlets. Finally, they have bought all the media outlets, newspapers, radio, television - because the citizen's salaries don't go up equally to match the invisible inflation.
There is a lag before the inflation matches the money creation. Further, one way they have been controlling natural inflation in the states is by exporting the US dollar (worth next to nothing). So the whole world is using this US dollar the lag is got to be decades. What we are seeing now is the melt down.

For example, a guy borrows million from the bank. And goes out and spends it. Everyone things it is from the pool X of money that was in the system. But its not. Its from the pool of X 1mil. So the guy is paying them with money that is actually worth less than the rest of the money but looks the same. After a while the citizens notice that there is more money in circulation and the price of goods and services goes up to match the inflation.

Anyway, bankers and their cronies in government buy up all the television networks because people are starting to complain. They consolidate all of the country's media under 5 corporations. Then they start firing all the trouble makers. Then the remaining staff start to self-censor realising first subconsciously that they will lose their jobs and won't be able to pay their mortgages, so they can't afford to speak their mind anymore. They start writing and saying things that will keep them their job, that will please the hand that feeds them, not the audience who trusts them.

And that process continues until the control grid over the media is so incredible that one man, Murdoch, owns 40% of the world's media. The process grows internationally. Countries who realise the fraud of the Fractional Reserve system start printing their own money and shut down that system in their country. The international bankers know that this means those countries will start to become wealthy and powerful very quickly now that they are not debt slaves. So what do the bankers do? They start the campaign for war. In the countries the international bankers still control, they start to spew lies and demonise the leaders of those independent countries using the media. They tell lies like, "Suddam has WMDs and could launch an Anthrax warhead at Britain within 40 minutes". And the citizens, because they are all now thoroughly controlled, cry for help and demand we invade those countries and smash them into oblivion.

And so here we are ladies and gentlemen. And those of you reading this, you need to realise that it is only going to get worse unless we stop these international bankers. Don't be fooled in thinking that its just muslims they are after. Once they have destroyed that threat they are coming for us. American Constitutional patriots are a massive threat to the bankers. They are fast mobilising to take their country back. The US Constitution specifically outlaws Fractional reserve banking and the Constitutionalists know that. The reason the US became so powerful originally is because they resisted the International Bankers.

What I see here in all these political and financial forums is people who are still mesmerised by the false-diatribes being spewed out of the controlled mainstream press. The fact is, a stable social model was worked out 400 years ago. It was called a Constitutional republic. But it required the people remain vigilant to protect it. Every US President who has resisted the International Bankers as they tried again to sneak their way into the corridors of power and reintroduce the Fraction Reserve debt-slavery system have been assassinated or attempted assassinated. They shot Andrew Jackson through the heart but he lived. He kicked them out once again. On the head stone of his grave it says, "I killed the Banks".

One month before JFK was assassinated he signed executive orders to 1)Abolish the Federal reserve 2)Abolish the CIA 3) Pull the troops out of Vietnam.

The order to assassinate JFK came from Johnson. And above him, his puppet masters, the International Bankers.

On a radio program in 2006, Professor Steven Jones of BYU, when asked who did 9/11 said, "The international bankers". One week later he was fired from his 20 year tenure as Professor of Physics at BYU.
He was told his statement was anti-semitic.

Who are the International Bankers? Who have been expelled from over 100 nation states in the last 2000 for their Fractional Reserve usury?

Are you Americans going to be duped for the nth time? Are you Brazilians?

Tell, "How long will they kill our prophets while we stand aside and look".

You can all continue this circus of parroting the bullcrap economic information your mainstream outlets are spewing on you and you can all pretend you are good parrots who can memorise a load of bullcrap and argue in circles with each other, and you can continue then to watch our communities, our nations, and what you are leaving your children implode: The final destination is One World Government and a World Citizenship of indentured debt-slaves.

If Brasil got a leader who abolished the Fractional Reserve system, the Americans,at the command of the International bankers who control their media and government, would invade and bomb the hell out of you until you agreed to reinstate their Slave Factory.

I mean, how many of you even realise that the US Fed Res is not a government institution? Its a private institution set up by the creatures from Jekyl Island.

Bill Clinton denied affair with the jew Monica Lewinsky.
Lewinsky pulls out the dress which he cum on which she kept freeze dried vacuum warped in a freezer for two years.

I ask all you women: When was the last time you freeze0dried your dress after making-love with someone?

Are you goy really this stupid? And tell me, How come the mainstream media didn't question that angle? And how come they impeached Clinton for that when Bush is 100% proven to have deliberately and knowingly lied about WMDS in Iraq resulting in the death of 4500 US troops and a war longer than WW2?

And tell me please all you smart men - How stupid are you really?

Bill Clinton denied affair with the jew Monica Lewinsky.
Lewinsky pulls out the dress which he cum on which she kept freeze dried vacuum warped in a freezer for two years.

I ask all you women: When was the last time you freeze0dried your dress after making-love with someone?

Are you goy really this stupid? And tell me, How come the mainstream media didn't question that angle? And how come they impeached Clinton for that when Bush is 100% proven to have deliberately and knowingly lied about WMDS in Iraq resulting in the death of 4500 US troops and a war longer than WW2?

And tell me please all you smart men - How stupid are you really?

And guess who appointed Monika Lewinsky the job in the white house? Yep, Rahm Emanuel.

I mean, you goy, when oh when will you stop being so f**king stupid?

After reading this editorial again, after several days, the following paragraph grabbed my attention...

Brazil is the world's second largest producer, and largest exporter, of ethanol. Not only did it fashion the world's first sustainable biofuels economy, but it also is considered to be the leader in the field. Together, Brazil and the United States dominate the industrial world in global ethanol production, accounting for 70% of the world's production and nearly 90 percent of the ethanol used for fuel.

Perhaps because I may be particularly touched by some Brazilian entries (from elsewhere), at any rate I fail to see the point of it BEFORE THE MAIN ISSUES I quoted in the title above are duly addressed!

In answer to the question, here are the two biggest causes of the Dollar going up and the Real going down with respect to US-Brazil currency conversion rates:

1) Lowered demand for goods world-wide = lowered demand for exports from Brazil = less demand for Reais to pay for the goods = lower price for the Real.

2) Investors in Brazil need Dollars to pay for credit calls elsewhere taking inventments out of Brazil = higher demand for Dollars = more Dollars traded for Reais, = lower price for Reais.

Need to use a spell checker - "inventments" => "investments". On the other hand, maybe "inventments" is more accurate given the worldwide bubble.

"Me" you have a message addressed to you in the "other" thread.
I hope you read it!

"Me", INVENTMENTS is a better word for it, yes.

"Me", as long as you think those paremters you just cited account for the fact the US Fed Res just printed 8 trillion dollars in the last 3 months.

I donty thinksy so.

Me wrote above, in answer to my questions as to how the US dollar got stronger against the Real progressively over that first 3 month period the US Fed Reserve had been printed 8 trillion US dollars into the economy with the bail outs:

[1) Lowered demand for goods world-wide = lowered demand for exports from Brazil = less demand for Reais to pay for the goods = lower price for the Real.

2) Investors in Brazil need Dollars to pay for credit calls elsewhere taking inventments out of Brazil = higher demand for Dollars = more Dollars traded for Reais, = lower price for Reais.]

And so there we all finally understood. The problem for Brasil is that they were being forced to deal internationally using the US dollar. Inflation of the US dollar.

And so in the last month, what has Brasil done? They read Jake McCrann's posts here and decided to officially abandon the US dollar as the international currency.

Brasil clearly witnessed what I was saying was going to happen. With that 8 trillion in printed US dollars, the Banksters were looking to Brasil to buy up real capital - water, manufacturing. General Motors announced 3 months ago they were looking to move to Brasil (with all their billions the US government just printed for them to use).

Thank god there are some Brasilians in power in this country who actually care about protecting Brasil from the same old dirty tricks of the jews, err, I mean the International Banksters.

I explained it above - Its this simple: The jews introduce Fractional Reserve banking in the country (through thug mafia influence, essentially). Then with their new license to print money, they print it so fast that there is lag time between the printing and resulting inflation such that the jews can run around and buy up all the country's real assets - utilities (privatization of national resources - second step after thugging in the Fed Reserve).

Finally, the inflation catches up, there is economic catastrophe, all the middle-class goes bankrupt, foreclosures on all small businesses and properties - jews run around and buy them all up with their printed money, jews now control the country. And what can anyone in the country say about this once the jews have control? Nothing. Why? Cause the jews have already bought up all the mainline media outlets, paid off enough government officials, and can assassinate any random renegade who slips through their radar of control.

So what happens usually, after about 100 years of this game? There is revolution, jews try to keep control of the main players of the revolution, but half the time the jews lose, and finally get their asses kicked out of the country or mass murdered - basically the public wakes up and there is another pogrom against the jews.

This time, because we are now in an international community of knowledge through the information technology of the internet, this time the jews know its End Game. If they lose this final battle their little Temple Mount fantasy and Jerusalem being the Capital of the world governed by the Chosen Ones is over forever.

So to all you cowards out there, get your gloves on cause if you cower down to this one this time, you might as well sell your children to be whores of old hairy pedophile Rabbis and commit suicide.

The world has had enough of the old dirty tricks of this cult mafia who call themselves The Jews and who wear funny clown suits and believe that god talks to them through their tin foil little hats they invented to cover their balled patch.