Brazzil

out of all the politicans to have been caught she a person of color was the only one to have to quit .

I FIND THAT SOME WHAT RACE INSPIRED

Matilde Robeiro yet another person of color thron to the trash in brasil

no racisum in brasil is there

not like the nasy old USA HU

more people of color doing grate things than any other country
in the world .

but we were the big slave traders ,
put down the black man and woman .

ask barba jordon
and obama and other black leadres in the US
ask them see whitch country they would rather live in .
the US or Brasil .
any black person in the US where would they rather live .
in a country like the US of a happy country like brasil

take that poll and see
for that fact
ask any poor person in brasil where would they rather live
brasil or the US

A balanced point of view of the Brazilian racial situation, although I don't agree with much of what he says.

The statistics are manipulated to make the situation look worse, in order to justify the racism rethoric. At the same time leftist politicians keep trying to incite hatred among people, putting one against the other, with the filthy rethoric we all know leftists have.

They don't offer truth, only try to cloud people's judgement with hatred and resentment. This doesn't help anybody, except their own plans to seize power forever.

At the same time leftist politicians keep trying to incite hatred among people, putting one against the other, with the filthy rethoric we all know leftists have.

Ya all might pounce on "A Brazilian" for this comment, but I wholeheartedly agree with him. The lefties love to incite hatred among people of different colors, states (North-South), encourage Xenophobia, etc;

My congrats to "A Brazilian" for his blunt remarks and I appreciate them.

In your view, is our current ruler a WASP?

Where is Brazil's Barack Obama?

Ah, there is one. Our good buddy Dnb and I am sure he would not mind and nor should we! He is our consensus candidate, fully endorsed by Ch.c!!

The idea of Americans (or Scotsmen for that matter) lecturing Brazilians on race leaves one wondering whether to laugh or cry. Such is the craziness in which we live.

Brazil doesn't have "black" people or "white" people. It just have Brazilian people -- end of story!

Latin ethnicity is supraracial. Latinos, let's not allow the Germanic barbarians to infect us with their diseased fixation on race. We've never had this unhealthy obsession with skin color and race as they have, so why start now?

By all means, take the good things and ideas they have to offer. But leave the bad!

Although she was hailed by the liberal media outside Brazil because she came from a favela, she turned out to be as unimpressive as most Brazilian politicians.

Typical politician, no different from the US or anywhere else for that matter. In the old days, being a politician, meant that you were a serviceman. Nowadays, is a career for people with names such as Kennedy or Bush. Obama is not going to improve the economy or make miracles, however, he is a breath of fresh air and interesting. I truly hope he gets elected, this could turn out to be good for blacks in Brazil.

I have to agree- to a point with Brazuca. However, we as a society have also to agree that we have problems with racism. Not long ago, Blacks in novelas were maids. Not long ago, it was unusual to see a Black in college. We do have a black movement in Brazil,

http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/42/132.html

However, I prefer to end with a quote, which summarizes Brazil's race issues:

""É preciso entender que a desigualdade no Brasil tem cor, nome e história. Esse não é um problema dos negros no Brasil, mas sim um problema do Brasil, que é de negros, brancos e outros mais", avalia Gomes

.

http://www.comciencia.br/reportagens/negros/03.shtml

Not long ago, Blacks in novelas were maids.

That's because "blacks" generally occupy the lower levels of Brazil's socio-economic strata. The reason "blacks" in novelas were maids was because that reflected reality. I've seen some of those novelas. In most of them, the protagonists live to-die-for lifestyles. Few in Brazil with dark skin tones live such lifestyles, so it would be unrealistic and unreflective of reality to portray "blacks" in novelas living lifestyles very few do. Portraying "blacks" as maids is only being realistic, not racist.

Not long ago, it was unusual to see a Black in college.

Again, this is not because they are barred from entry. If a "black" gets the necessary marks, will he not be allowed to undertake the course for want of the right skin tone?

Different cultures and societies place different emphases on things. Those of African descent in Brazil traditionally place greater emphasis on the more Dionysian aspects of life, demonstrated in their disproportionate representation in such areas of Brazilian cultural life as music and sport. Those of, say, Japanese descent, on the other hand, are renowned around the world for placing a great emphasis on the more Apollonian aspects of life -- discipline, order, etc. This is why, although constituting on 1% of the Brazilian population, they constitute a disproportionate 20% of students at USP, South America's most prestigious university.

If "blacks" in Brazil are rarely to be found in universities, then this is because the Dionysian emphasis in their culture does not lend itself easily to the rigours of academic discipline necessary to win a spot in a prestigious university. For that to occur, their culture would have to start heavily emphasising the importance of formal education.

Such cultural differences can be seen in Africa, for example, where everybody's "black", so there's no room for excuses. Take the Banyarwanda (those of Rwanda) of the Tutsi social class. After being chased away from Rwanda in 1959 by the Hutu lower class, in a revolution casting off Tutsi social dominance in the first of a number of pogroms that would culminate in the 1994 genocide, many of these Tutsi found themselves in squalid refugee camps, ignored and forgotten by the world. Because their culture so strongly emphasised formal education, they grabbed the opportunity for education offered them in Uganda, and, as the children of these refugees grew up, they found themselves occupying the more prestigious jobs and positions in society to a disproportionate degree. This was such that when their rebel army launched its armed invasion back into Rwanda, as a forced right of return, it constituted the best-educated rebel army in history. The point is, this culture found itself with absolutely nothing in Uganda, but because it emphasised education so strongly (the more Apollonian aspects of life), it was able to excel in this area.

Other equally "black" cultures in Africa do not excel in this area to the same extent, simply because their culture does not place as much value on formal education as other cultures. The Kikuyu in Kenya, to take another example, are better at business than the other Kenyan tribes. This is obviously because their culture emphasises business skills more than other cultures. There's a particular portion of Indians in India that have a long history of engaging in trade in their culture and excel in this area.

So culture matters. A Dionysian culture will produce Dionysian results -- music, sport, spontaneity, ebullience, etc. An Apollonian culture will produce Apollonian results -- punctuality, discipline, delayed gratification, stolidness, etc.

Apollonianism lends itself more easily to middle-class status than does Dionysianism. Dionysianism, however, is more fun -- just look at the carnaval! (But also note that German and Japanese cultures do not have such cultural expressions of exuberance!)

At the same time leftist politicians keep trying to incite hatred among people, putting one against the other, with the filthy rethoric we all know leftists have.

Ya all might pounce on "A Brazilian" for this comment, but I wholeheartedly agree with him. The lefties love to incite hatred among people of different colors, states (North-South), encourage Xenophobia, etc;

My congrats to "A Brazilian" for his blunt remarks and I appreciate them.

You two sound about as stupid as a typical Sean Hannity Rush Limbaugh fan. Light on substance, heavy on hyperbole, repeat and scream - and never an original thought. I'd bet neither of you could adequately define what a "leftist" is let alone connect it to race relations in Brazil or the US.

Do us all a favor and end the vapid political cheap shots used to score points with the less educated and easily duped. I bet you're both in your 50s or 60s? Typically grumpy old men, now back to Fox news the both of you.

not your pockets or those of someone ealse

as shelly said it was a job for them that wanted better for the country and its people

now its for people that want a free ride , just give the mass enough to keep your job while making the other party look bad and vote yourself a raise at 3 am when all the reporter are home .

best bet for the US only 2 terms in office for all electid oficals .
pay set by popular vote of the people of there state .
have to stay on SS not there golden parachute they have now when they leave office .

make them pay for there own gas, remove the senat bank , get rid of there pravita dinning room .

hold them to a higher rule of law like we should the sports and movie stars
so our kids dont copie there actions and go to jail for ever and they walk after 15 munits

That's because "blacks" generally occupy the lower levels of Brazil's

socio-economic strata. The reason "blacks" in novelas were maids was because that reflected reality. I've seen some of those novelas. In most of them, the protagonists live to-die-for lifestyles. Few in Brazil with dark skin tones live such lifestyles, so it would be unrealistic and unreflective of reality to portray "blacks" in novelas living lifestyles very few do. Portraying "blacks" as maids is only being realistic, not racist.

I will have to disagree. It is true that black maids represented the realistic living, however I think TV Globo, majority white upper class (business people, actors, etc.), didn't break the status quo for a reason. That reason is institutional racism. Why not break the cycle and use the novelas as a means to educate and empower Blacks in Brazil. You may say, that is not what they are in business for, then I will ask you, why not? It is entertainment made to sell, however, they are making a profit on racism. Funny, that they don't make novelas based on success stories, sure we must have stories of coming from nothing and making it to the top. How many people would be interested? Young girls and boys need to have a role model-kind of Williams sisters in the US, they went to Wimbledon and broke the "all white club". They are heroes for many young African-Americans.

If we didn't have racism issues in Brazil, we would not have institution such as Combate ao Racismo Institucional and other organizations that I have mentioned here. If in doubt, just do a search on google Racismo no Brasil, there are many, many cases.

"O Racismo Institucional é o fracasso das instituições e organizações em prover um serviço profissional e adequado às pessoas em virtude de sua cor, cultura, origem racial ou étnica. Manifesta-se em normas, práticas e comportamentos discriminatórios adotados no cotidiano de trabalho resultantes da ignorância, da falta de atenção, do preconceito ou de estereótipos racistas. Em qualquer situação, o racismo institucional sempre coloca pessoas de grupos raciais ou étnicos discriminados em situação de desvantagem no acesso a benefícios gerados pelo Estado e por demais instituições organizadas.

http://www.combateaoracismoinstitucional.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=12&Itemid=101

For me the above quote summarizes, yet again, what Globo and other TV stations in Brazil have been doing for years. If you don't think so, please watch the Jo Soares interview, which enraged the black community in Portuguese speaking African countries and in Brazil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQ6KCKBmRPQ

and a the website:
http://www.angonoticias.com/full_headlines.php?id=17342

Even though I sport a similar phenotype and genotype, I am ashamed of their obsessive fixation with color pigmentation. Biological facts have taught us that among trillions upon trillions of genes, only a half dozen differentiates our skin color, the same amount that differentiate us from another close species, the chimpanzees.

I am in total agreement with Brazuca… Of course, culture matters, culture matters totally. Cultural aspirations drive us all. Look at the Jews, for instance. They are highly motivated to education from the time they are born, hence their success all over the world. Anti-Semitism is nothing more then jealousy for their great achievements in the arts and science.

Since Brasil has become an influential emerging power, now we are blamed in destroying our environment, practicing racism….bla bla bla. The irony of it all is that is precisely what “they” have done the last few centuries!

In Brasil, we will never be referred to as a Blackman, a Catholic, a Jew, but rather as my friend Mary, John or Paul. Racial stratification and isolation is an European-North American trade. Don’t blame us for it!

Scottish man, try again…

Costinha

huge groups of people were brought to the americas in slavery.poverty is passsed down from generation to generation like wealth . some people escape the poverty, many dont.

the reason there are so many afro brazilians on the futebol selection is that sports are one of the few oportunities to escape poverty. the brazil futebol selection looks like the real brazil mix (unless you live in blumenau)

tv is ridiculas in brazil for racial honesty of what the country looks like

i sure dont think brazil should act like the united states or south africa, but, it has serious racial issues.

I bet you're both in your 50s or 60s? Typically grumpy old men,

Ah, you are calling me an old fart,eh?

now back to Fox news the both of you.

Fortunately, we don't get this Channel where I live. May be "A Brazilian" gets it. I like to be indoctrinated by TV Record, Band and Globo. While I am enjoying the stimulating "Novelas" during the prime time, I suggest you go to the beach (as the weather promises to be good for the next two days) to have some cold ones and reflect about the "Present and Immediate Danger" we are facing.

Is raising its ugly head on this site.

One enjoys the frequent potshots at non-leftist pundits, talk show hosts and news networks, which only tends to showcase the discomfiture of the left which would like to do away with all conservative expression if it could, but Age Discrimination? Finally, sir, have you no shame?

The guys in Haight-Ashbury in the sixties used to say, trust no one over thirty. I was there and heard them say it. Where are they now? The survivers are Old Hippies. Some of them have really nice Shopping Carts.

Or said differently :
When will a black or a woman (black or not) be elected as President in a machist and racist country such as Brazil is ??????

There have been black candidates for U.S. president before.

But none got the media puff that Obama has.

Politics doesn´t take place in a vacuum. Who is calling the shots? To whom does Obama belong? To whom will he answer if elected?

Anyway, he may have peaked too soon.

Or said differently :
When will a black or a woman (black or not) be elected as President in a machist and racist country such as Brazil is ??????

Ch.c, even though you are a smart "Old Fart" in Economics, International Trade, Finance, etc;, you are politically naive about our Republic. Germany elected Angela Merckel, Chile Michelle Bachlert & Argentina Cristina. Ok,the Yanks did not want Hillary and now they have Obama Vs McCain. But Brasil has a great woman candidate with impeccable leftist credentials. A phenomenon and a rising star who fought the dictatorship and she is sure to be elected with thumping majority, thus continuing our unstoppable progress.

I hope you have already guessed whom I am talking about

P.S: I apologize to anyone who took objections to my comments (anticipadamente, of course)

In Brazil does racial stratification equal economic stratification or is it the other way around

The Greatest Thing You Will Ever Learn: Is To Love And Be Loved In Return.

In Brazil does racial stratification equal economic stratification or is it the other way around

You again, interfering in our domestic issues? Why don't you google and find out.

btw, I was wondering when you were coming in to give your highly opinionated views.

The only reason why Obama WILL be president( the powers that be PUT who they want in office ie, Bush and trashed ballots in Florida) is because with the current geo-politic and economic situation IT DOESN'T MATTER WHO IS PRESIDENT. He could be PURPLE for Christ sake! All that is needed at this point is an eloquent spokesman a facade, a front to parade the U.S into the North American Union. And that will be the BEST case scenario. Parabems to Lula that only had to about the South American Union ,"It's here and my stamp is on it?" in more words or less.
It's not even about Americans being desperate for a "CHANGE". Of course they are, as they are being led to the second Depression.But just follow the MONEY people. ALWAYS follow the paper trail. The masterminds behind this whole "show" have NOT changed. They are just using "distraction" as the prevailing tool.
Brazil and an "Obama"?? Not going to happen! Remember people Brazil is supposedly "EMERGING". Let's all do the math.
As far as leftists and their ideas? Divide an conquer will always be the order of the day on this side of Armageddon. And I am so sorry for having to inject such a "politically incorrect" word or topic on my comment.
My friend Joao.. As for political aspirations on my part? I am deviating from my conscience as it is merely commenting on politics. "President"? Why court the Devil? I have enough personal issues to resolve spiritually. LOL.!
Which brings me to a finally point. Being NON PARTIAL to everyone (eliminating racism) STARTS WITHIN THE INDIVIDUAL. If everyone begins to check themselves in area, society will begin to make progress in this area.
It is a CHOICE
A little trivia for everyone. Abraham Lincoln. Supposedly credited for freeing the slaves, is conceptionalized artistically on a COPPER PENNY with his profile facing LEFT.
The only thing that has changed to the game are the faces.

Double Touble Dot, is that you???

oops, spelling, make that Double Trouble Dot

Double Touble Dot, is that you???

Of course, it is me. Who else could it be? Was easy to make out that it was you!!!

Which brings me to a finally point. Being NON PARTIAL to everyone (eliminating racism) STARTS WITHIN THE INDIVIDUAL. If everyone begins to check themselves in area, society will begin to make progress in this area.
It is a CHOICE

Great comment. Lord Augustus (as well as his Swiss adversary) will fully approve of it.

Fine then! Good night Sir

It is true that black maids represented the realistic living, however I think TV Globo, majority white upper class (business people, actors, etc.), didn't break the status quo for a reason. That reason is institutional racism.

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because darker-skinned Brazilians are generally poorer than lighter-skinned Brazilians does not mean that their skin tone has anything to do with their situation. Skin tone is incidental in this case. Those with darker skin in Brazil will tend to have a more African rather than European influence in their culture and worldview, and vise-versa. That means darker-skinned Brazilians will tend to have less of the middle-class values lighter-skinned Brazilians have, which is the cause of the latter's generally better socio-economic status.

Why not break the cycle and use the novelas as a means to educate and empower Blacks in Brazil. You may say, that is not what they are in business for, then I will ask you, why not? It is entertainment made to sell, however, they are making a profit on racism.


The cycle can be broken by changing the culture to assume more middle-class values, such as: temperance and continence, delayed gratification, future orientation, self-discipline, commitment to rigorous education, etc. As long as the culture of darker-skinned Brazilians tends to lend itself more easily to spontaneity and immediate gratification, the lifestyle stemming from middle-class values will be beyond their grasp.

Many cultural groups have arrived in Brazil only to successfully break this alleged cycle you believe exists, by the second generation. Take a look at the (Christian) Lebanese, the Japanese, the Germans, for example.

The way to educate and empower "Blacks", contrary to forcing TV stations to paint a picture that does not exist, is to teach them the middle-class values they need to assume a middle-class lifestyle. The media is not making a profit on racism, because racism is not involved. They are merely making a profit on providing viewing that people want to watch, which portrays upper-class lifestyles and so casts people who look like the upper class.

Young girls and boys need to have a role model-kind of Williams sisters in the US, they went to Wimbledon and broke the "all white club". They are heroes for many young African-Americans.

Did the Williams sisters break the "all white club" because they say on TV "black" women playing tennis at Wimbledon? If not, then you've disproved your argument.

They are heroes for many African-Americans? What about for the other Americans? Is the US so racially divided that the Williams sisters can only be heroes for one segment of the population? If so, don't bring that disease of racial division to Brazil. Pele is a hero to all Brazilians, not just cafe-com-leite or bem-branca Brazilians -- all Brazilians.

If we didn't have racism issues in Brazil, we would not have institution such as Combate ao Racismo Institucional and other organizations that I have mentioned here. If in doubt, just do a search on google Racismo no Brasil, there are many, many cases.

If we didn't live on a flat earth, we wouldn't have such organisations as the Flat Earth Society. If in doubt, do a Google search. I'm sure you'll find many cases.

Since Brasil has become an influential emerging power, now we are blamed in destroying our environment, practicing racism….bla bla bla. The irony of it all is that is precisely what “they” have done the last few centuries!

I think they're projecting. It constantly amazes me how ready Americans are to lecture to others -- indeed Brazilians, of all people! -- about race relations. It's really quite an amazing phenomenon. I don't altogether understand it.

the reason there are so many afro brazilians on the futebol selection is that sports are one of the few oportunities to escape poverty.

I would say that that the reason for this is that futebol does not require middle-class values to succeed but in actual fact lends itself to Dionysian values -- inventiveness, fun, etc. While Apollonian societies can be good at futebol (the mechanical approach of the Germans bears fruit), Dionysian societies can as well, though in a more spontaneous, entertaining form. (See jogo bonito)

tv is ridiculas in brazil for racial honesty of what the country looks like

It's realistic in what it portrays. If it portrays life in the favelas, then it is realistic in that respect. If it portrays life in the upper classes, then it is realistic in that respect.

You also have to take into account the driving motivation of commercial television, which is advertising revenue. The market the corporations that are paying for the advertising is after is the middle-class market, as this is the market with mass buying power. That market is interested in viewing telenovelas they can more easily relate to. The poor are welcome to watch these telenovelas if they wish. But the advertisers are not much interested in them, as they are not a very relevant matter. The programming will follow the money on commercial television.

Politics doesn´t take place in a vacuum. Who is calling the shots? To whom does Obama belong? To whom will he answer if elected?

Obama is the puppet of Zbigniew Brzezinski and the Trilateral Commission!

Obama is the puppet of Zbigniew Brzezinski and the Trilateral Commission!

First of all, THANK YOU for clarifying this to our fellow readers. (I am a U.S citizen of half braziian descent, so I am not biased either way.Not anti-American, but definetly not afraid to call it as it is)
BUT! And I mean a BIG BUT! I need to help you out a bit with this insert so that people WON"T get the wrong impression.

The cycle can be broken by changing the culture to assume more middle-class values, such as: temperance and continence, delayed gratification, future orientation, self-discipline, commitment to rigorous education, etc. As long as the culture of darker-skinned Brazilians tends to lend itself more easily to spontaneity and immediate gratification, the lifestyle stemming from middle-class values will be beyond their grasp.

The legacy of slavery which runs long and deep and will continue as such until there is some sort of "Civil Rights Movement" that can only BEGIN to scratch the surface of alleviating this "circumstance". And the "powers that be" KNOW THIS as they continue to promote the silly idea that the race issue in Brazil is beast of a different color.
Brazil cannot afford a "revolution" or "movement" of this sort for it will ultimately pit the North against the South.
Let the pardo mulattos wallow in their confusion. But at the end of the day the whites of the South KNOW who they are and want to remain as such. (And they can't be necessarily faulted for that).
As was noted in the article few if any blacks hold political offices of true significance in Brazil. Few if any are millionaires outside of sports and entertainment.
Getting into the MIDDLE CLASS in any capitalistic society involves EQUAL access to a decent education. And only the 'powers that be" have the power to change that. Or they have to be forced to change that by a revolution or movement.
It is from the TOP DOWN that oppurtunity will come to get a middle class education to espouse "middle class" values for the poor predominately black masses.
Is the ruling class content with the status quo? YES! You will always need the poor to MAINTAIN the lifestyles of the rich. This is a capitalist FACT.
Slavery just delayed the timetable for the moral evolution (adopting supposed "middle class values") for slaves and their descendants. You are going to "breed" and "eat" regardless. But when it is against the law to read (during slavery). Schools are bad..(post slavery) And racism is institutionalized (slaverys legacy). ANY race subjected to that is going to have its "issues" in a capitalistic society.
Given more time and a leader.. All this will change. But I think Brazil will be intent on making sure that doesn't happen. Catholicism and Syncretism will make sure it doesn't happen. The roots of the "passivity" that prevails in the population at large. ! Ha Ha!
The blacks in the U.S have the culture Protestant (religiously) to thank . Nothing more. Nothing less. It starts with freeing the mind, ever so slowly..... And thank God that is a CHOICE! On an individual basis ANYONE can circumvent remaining blind. Thank God for this ONLY!
So in conclusion it's really a waste of energy to feel too sorry for the downtrodden.. They will always be around by necessity. The best you can hope for is that the "few" will learn. Will get the "knowledge" and "apply" it. Supposed "middle class" values are just basic "moral values' and when applied generation after generation for the most part will insure some way to navigate decently through a capitalist society. Descendants of slaves were just systematically denied the oppurtunity to learn the system for centuries. It will take just as long if not longer to undo the process. And you can't expect first class citizens to be in a big hurry to help.
Get the knowledge! It is out there. And it is FREE!

Since Brasil has become an influential emerging power, now we are blamed in destroying our environment, practicing racism….bla bla bla. The irony of it all is that is precisely what “they” have done the last few centuries!

I agree wholeheartedly. The worst part about it all is that they know just who to use to vocalize all this garbage. Condaleeza Rice. It looks better that she points the finger.
But hey ,, she should know she is being pimped. And her vanity is to blame. So is Obama's for that matter. Insisting on being the FIRST BLACK this and that. It's a shame.! But so human. I do think Obama is going to be smart enough to stay out of all that. Many wonder why he is so quiet about Brazil. Maybe this is why. He doesn't want to appear AS USED.

There are individual exceptions, but the upper classes tend to have higher indices of intelligence than the lower classes. Surely this must be taken into consideration when considering these issues.

Jewish people are more intelligent than Gentiles as a whole, no matter how one measures intelligence. The ghettoes of Europe where they tended to live were not slums, they were not poor, not dependent on the dole, and those that were able to escape before it became impossible usually did quite well in their new countries.

But there are people groups the large percentage of which are unequipped whether mentally, emotionally or culturally to take advantage of new places and opportunities and continue to huddle together in misery just like they did back home. In earlier, crueler societies many of these people would not have survived. Today they do. ´

Maybe they can be helped, I hope so, but maybe they can´t.

So culture matters. A Dionysian culture will produce Dionysian results -- music, sport,

That being said and agreed upon by a few us. Please let it be known that a SLAVE CULTURE still prevails in various segments of the Western World. And there are many in positions of power and control all TOO CONTENT TO KEEP IT THAT.
Fortunatley there is LIBERTY through a certain form of knowledge that is widely available to all. But the Darwinists and the Marxist and a host of other political and social idealogists don't want the masses to recognize this.
Knowing this no matter what your race or persuasion will take you a long way with a much wider vision.

There are individual exceptions, but the upper classes tend to have higher indices of intelligence than the lower classes. Surely this must be taken into consideration when considering these issues.

So we see "government" to the advancement of any people within it's boundaries. There must be fair access to good education. But this cannot exist in a capitalist society. Some, by necessity will be left out of the loop to finance the chosen privleged.
It is so much easier to designate the "haves" and "have nots" by color. Therefore "institutionalizing" racism.

Supposed "middle class" values are just basic "moral values' and when applied generation after generation for the most part will insure some way to navigate decently through a capitalist society.

Ha-ha, that was basically what I was hinting at. And I was also hinting that the solution is already taking place; in the form of the fast-growing Protestant movement in Brazil. Protestants (and it is the serious, no-nonsense, fundamentalist-type Protestantism) does not compromise with syncretism and such other Catholic disservices. They exhort the pagans to cast of their spiritual chains -- not to leave some (or most) of them untouched, with a bit of Mary-worship interspersed. I mean, in Brazil today large segments of the population are still worshiping Iemanja, some sea goddess who apparently can control aspects of their lives. It is even common to see on the corners of streets in Rio food on plates left out to placate or curry favour with some god!

So the Protestant invasion is setting to work fixing things. The Bahamas has a puritanical heritage. So although the population consists predominantly of those of an African-slave background, it has enjoyed quite a high standard of living. That puritanical heritage would have not made compromises with pagan sea gods or what have you.

I disagree with you that it has to be a top-down thing. The Protestant missionaries will go to the people and change their hearts and their worldview. That way, they will assume moral/middle-class values/virtues: continence and temperance, a linear view of history, honesty and good character, a future orientation, etc.

And education, I tend to think, is something you seek, rather than something that is given you. If you want it bad enough, you'll get it, one way or the other. Formal, government-provided education is a sort of poisoned chalice or fraud. It teaches people to believe that what is education is what the government says is education; and that education can only come from on high, can only be given to you by those above you. This teaches a slave mentality, and also makes people susceptible to manipulation and control. You yourself have gone out and educated yourself about the true reality of things: how government works, how its the Powers That Be that control everything, including who becomes the President of the United States and what his policies shall be. Formal education doesn't teach you this. The Powers That Be control formal education, and since school has been compulsory in the United States, has been busy mis- or dis-educating the hoi polloi. Americans on average are a pretty clueless bunch, whereas before schooling became compulsory back in early American history, they were a highly literate bunch. See John Taylor Gatto's excellent and revelatory The Underground History of American Education, available to read online.

The author said: “In Brazil, which is said to have the largest number of people of African descent outside Nigeria,”

I have no idea what he is trying to imply regarding the Brazilian black population and Nigeria, since I did a lot of research on that subject when I was writing one of my books about Brazilian history.

Quoting from my book published in 2000: “It is estimated that between 1700 and 1851 approximately 2.2 million to 3.0 million African slaves arrived in Brazil. It is also known where these African slaves came from. "The slave traders brought approximately 67 percent of the African slaves from Luanda and Benguela (Angola), 29 percent from Congo, and the remaining 4 percent from Cabo Verde, Moçambique and Madagascar."”

We also know that the blacks from Congo ended up on the north of Brazil, and they were connected with the slave traffic from the Dutch. The Angolans ended up everywhere else where they had slaves in Brazil and the Portuguese were responsible for that part of the slave trade.

The slaves that ended in Brazil had nothing to do with Nigeria.

Since Congo and Angola are next door to each other and the division into separate countries was created by Europeans – we can make a generalization in this case and we can say that 96 percent of the blacks in Brazil came from Angola/Congo area. And 96 percent of black Brazilians know where their African roots are – they are descendants of Angolans and Congoleses.

Why that is important to know?

Blacks in the United States have a major problem tracing their heritage since they brought slaves from Africa from various locations and most Americans of African descent are not sure from where their ancestors came from.

Let me give you an example of what I mean: Even without making a DNA test to confirm 100 percent based on where Pele’s was born and his family live on the state of Minas Gerais there is 67 percent probability that Pele’s ancestors where natives from Angola.

If Pele decides to confirm his heritage there are DNA tests today that he can do it.


*******


The article is asking where is Brazil’s Barack Obama?

In my opinion, the Democratic Party made a major mistake by choosing Barack Obama as its presidential candidate for November 2008.

It is an experiment that will cost this country in a big way for decades to come.

About 6 months ago I wrote about that subject – Barack Obama the first black man to represent a major political party in the United States and the first black man to lose an election that was supposed to be a piece of cake.

At the end of the day enough of Hillary Clinton supporters are staying home on election day, and many people will vote for their own kind instead of the best candidate.

Barack Obama will not have enough votes to put him over the top in many swinging states.

I had been an Al Gore supporter for the last 2 years, and I am very disappointed that he decided not to run since he could have own the election with a solid mandate.

There are many reasons why Al Gore would have been the ultimate presidential candidate, but instead the Democratic Party is running with a rookie, with no substance at a time that the United States is confronting the Perfect Storm and an economic meltdown.

But these are the people who reelected George W. Bush – what else can I say?

Anyway, coming back to the subject of this article.

In my opinion there is only one black person who could be elected president of Brazil if he decided to run for president – and his name is Edson Arantes do Nascimento – our beloved Pele.

Brazilians would elect Pele in the same way that Lula got elected president of Brazil.

The majority of Brazilians would vote with their heart regarding Pele.

.

There are individual exceptions, but the upper classes tend to have higher indices of intelligence than the lower classes. Surely this must be taken into consideration when considering these issues.

Jewish people are more intelligent than Gentiles as a whole, no matter how one measures intelligence. The ghettoes of Europe where they tended to live were not slums, they were not poor, not dependent on the dole, and those that were able to escape before it became impossible usually did quite well in their new countries.

But there are people groups the large percentage of which are unequipped whether mentally, emotionally or culturally to take advantage of new places and opportunities and continue to huddle together in misery just like they did back home. In earlier, crueler societies many of these people would not have survived. Today they do. ´

Maybe they can be helped, I hope so, but maybe they can´t.

If you believe this, why are you interested in such a biologically compromised mongrel nation like Brazil? The gauchos? But there's only about 10 million Brazilians of German descent. And as they years go by, the more they assimilate into the rest of the untermenschen population, thereby losing their biological edge -- as you would no doubt see it.

It's interesting. So consistent was Hitler in his survival-of-the-fittest worldview that as the Slavs were storming Berlin, he conceded that they had thereby proven their racial superiority in defeating the Germans, who had hitherto mistakenly believed themselves to be innately superior to the Slavs, whom they had understood to be untermenschen and had treated accordingly. Hitler, demonstrating admirable consistency in his philosophy, hoped, as he spent his last hours in his bunker, that the Russians would show no mercy on the German population, as to do so would only be to perpetuate what had been proven in the crucible of war to be the inferior genes of the German population.

But the Darwinian cosmology (from which this racialistic, eugenicist thinking that Ric demonstrates stems) is altogether nonsensical. It tells us nothing of what ought to be done, what course man ought to take. They usually reply that "survival" is the driving imperative of existence. But this is to say nothing. I mean, says who? The chance, random electrochemical reactions that occur in their brains and result in their thoughts? But how can these chance, random electrochemical reactions occurring in their grey matter be intellible? These people need to think out their philosophy a bit better, me thinks.

And that phrase of theirs -- "survival of the fittest". That's just a tautology.

Who are the fittest? Those who survive. Who survive? The fittest.

Ric subtly complains: "In earlier, crueler societies many of these people would not have survived. Today they do."

Well, then, Ric, I suppose this is because they are fit. Because if they were not fit, then they would not survive.

To complain that this is because of the dysgenic influence of Christian principles of mercy and charity in helping the "weak" to live on and propagate their kind is still to say nothing.

The fit -- by definition -- survive.

So Christianity must be congratulated for making more people more fit -- by helping them to survive.

Besides, were we to let this survival-of-the-fittest philosophy reign free unhindered, where would it all end? It would be constant war and fighting, the "strong" (or those who deem themselves the strong, as the Germans did only a few decades back) seeking to eliminate the "weak" (Slavs, Jews, "blacks", Chinese, caboclos, etc.). The Nazis were convinced that warfare was an inherent good, since it propelled evolution forward by ridding the Earth of its human detritus. Warfare was simply the principles of the Olympics writ large -- stronger, faster, higher. But in warfare, the loser lost -- permanently. Unless they lost to a "population group" too infected with Christian charity and mercy to do the "right" thing by the survival-of-the-fittest system of ethics (sic).

Luckily for the Germans at the end of the Second World War, the victors (even the Russians) acted with sufficient Christian charity and mercy to allow them to live on and continue to propagate their kind. Maybe Christianity ain't such a bad thing after all.

By the way, Ric will be happy to know that it is official US government policy to eliminate the "weak" (as Ric and his lot would see it) in biologically compromised like Brazil that are teeming with untermenschen.

Henry Kissinger (one of those superior Jews) formulated in 1974 the National Security Study Memorandum (NSSM 200). The memo, which was secret until relatively recently (thanks to legal action to declassify it by the Catholic Church), was entitled, "Implications of Worldwide Population Growth for US Security and Overseas Interests". Basically it advocated for population control (a euphemism that has successfully been used to camouflage eugenics) of the world's teeming masses of untermenschen. The thirteen countries to be targeted included: India, Nigeria, Mexico, Indonesia, Brazil, Turkey and Colombia. Only a drastic reduction of these nations' populations would allow for US exploitation of their raw materials. Brazil was to be the NSSM 200 "model".

To quote directly from Engdahl's Seeds of Destruction book, from which I garnered this information (pp.64-65):

"Brazil was one of the most clearly documented examples of NSSM 200. Beginning in the late 1980's ... the Brazilian Ministry of Health began to investigate reports of massive sterilization of Brazilian women ... the result of a formal Congressional inquiry, sponsored by more than 165 legislators from every political party represented in the Brazilian legislature.

"The investigation had been initiated after information [about NSSM 200] was published in the Jornal de Brasilia, Hova do Povo (Rio de Janeiro), Jornal do Brasil, and other major Brazilian newspapers in May 1991.

"The Brazilian government was shocked to find that an estimated 44% of all Brazilian women aged between 14 and 55 had been permanently sterilized. Most of the older women had been sterilized when the program started in the mid-1970s. ...[T]he sterilizations had been carried out by a variety of different organizations and agencies, some Brazilian. They included the International Planned Parenthood Federation, the US Pathfinder Fund, the Association for Voluntary Surgical Contraception, Family Health International -- all programs under the aegis and guidance of the US Agency for International Development (USAID).

"...According to some reports, under the program, as many as 90% of all Brazilian women of African descent had been sterilized. ...Almost half of Brazil's 154 million people in the 1980's were believed to be of African ancestry."

So there you have it. Some good, encouraging news for you, Ric.

-----

Christianity. Can't live without it!

Hi Joao,

I asked you this question before, but I can't find your answer.

Today, do we have in Brazil a General similar to Castelo Branco?

Do you know the name of any General of the highest caliber in Brazil?

Thanks,
Ricardo

Does it really make any difference?

Costinha

rather than something given to you.

EXCELLENT POINT! I wholeheartedly agree with Brazuca. Keep it coming!

No Shame Society of Murderers (the USA), is a more fitting acronym, don't you think?

Costinha

It is an experiment that will cost this country in a big way for decades to come.

Obama is NOT an experiment. He is a front. Suffice to say, "follow the money". The powers that be KNOW what they are doing. The U.S will lose its sovereignty on purpose.

Barack Obama will not have enough votes to put him over the top in many swinging states.

If the system were not rigged this would definetly be the case. But as sure as Bush was "railroaded" into office . So will be the case with Obama. People aren't playing with that much money behind his campaign. It would be pointless for one. And let the "media" tell it ( and it is most influential in public opinion, McCains views aren't making a good sell. ) This "Change" campaign is not in vain. Nothing short of an orchestrated terrorist attack on American soil by the U.S itself will motivate people to put McCain in office. Besides the money , people are voting now that never had an interest in voting their entire lives. Obama will be president. And the "Change" we are facing remains to be seen.

So Christianity must be congratulated for making more people more fit -- by helping them to survive

Simply incredible!
This point will be clearly understood at the end of the day. But lets make it clear TRUE CHRISTIANITY.
Keeping in mind of course as was previously stated , with a change in one word.
"Knowledge is something you seek, rather than something given to you

This is exactly what the Powers that Be don't want you to know to insure your extinction.
Man this is so cool. To see someone that gets it and has good argument!

Osama, Obama or Your Mama
written by ..., August 04, 2008

Does it really make any difference?

Clearly,, NO!

it is a matter as to how far as big business wants world trade to fatten there pockets so they buy governments who will do there bidding .

but one has to ask at what point will there be too many people for the world tom support ,

now china is the second most populated under inda .

the cathoilc religon is first but the muslem is comming fast

there are more non belivers then babist , and all the little religons put togeather .

the would has gone to be driven by greed and coruption .

the US will never have an eletric car as the government has not found out a way to get there road use tax out of them .

vote for me and i will set you free

and we all should say by the the best russina writer today

1. The phenomenon often referred to in Brazil as "O Movimento Evangélico" is at least as syncretistic as the Roman Catholic Church. Some of the most conspicuous of its organizations are a mishmash of Protestantism, Evangelicalism(basically the terminology), Spiritism, Catholicism, and Zig Ziglarism. The Protestantism being of the Methodist variety.

2. Note that I never used the term "Survival of the Fittest", nor referred to any groups except Jews and Gentiles, nor any racial allusions. People read right over your statements and read in their thoughts and vocabulary. See the movie, "Being There".

3. Denying that the upper classes are, as a whole, brighter than the less priviledged (pobre lascado) reminds one of the story of the emperor that had no clothes. Lotsa stuff these days is generally known but can´t be expressed in the PC world in which we live.

3. Denying that the upper classes are, as a whole, brighter than the less priviledged (pobre lascado) reminds one of the story of the emperor that had no clothes. Lotsa stuff these days is generally known but can´t be expressed in the PC world in which we live.

Sieg Heil!

Hi Joao,

I asked you this question before, but I can't find your answer.

Today, do we have in Brazil a General similar to Castelo Branco?

Do you know the name of any General of the highest caliber in Brazil?

Hi Ricardo,

It is politically incorrect to ask such questions! Nevertheless:

a) All our Officers are of high caliber, because I hear that AMAN & ESG are still good.

b) Please do watch the interview of a General in the following link and judge for yourself:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XR-Zk0icSOQ

And give me a feed back.

Expect at least two October Surprises, not just one.

Expect no joy in Mudville after His Worship BHO strikes out in November. The dismay and reaction is not going to be pretty.

Ever heard the phrase, "If you´re so smart, how come you ain´t rich?"

No Shame Society of Murderers (the USA), is a more fitting acronym, don't you think?

Most Americans haven't got a clue about Brazil, let alone NSSM 200. So they're not all in on it. Only the few eugenists amongst the elite, supported by the Rockefellers, who have a long history in supporting eugenics -- sorry, "population control" and "sustainable development" and whatever euphemisms they've successfully employed.

Man this is so cool. To see someone that gets it and has good argument!

Actually, I only "got it" starting late last year when I stumbled upon Engdahl's work. I devoured all he wrote on geopolitics on his website -- fascinating revelation to me. Then I rushed out and ordered his book, A Century of War: Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order.

As I read the book, fascinated by the revelations, it began to dawn on me that some of this stuff sounded like conspiracy stuff. But Engdahl was arguing so cogently, and hadn't said anything crazy or implausible, that I kept reading.

But then he went and spoilt it all by saying something stupid like -- MKULTRA.

After so many pages of sober, cogent analysis of geopolitical history, he matter-of-factly mentioned this CIA mind-control program.

I was disappointed. I of course couldn't continue reading the book (which I had been devouring) because what he said was obviously too ridiculous to take seriously. It was a pity. What he had been saying was really interesting.

I immediately put down the book and rushed to the Internet to check out this absurdity, since I couldn't continue without first doing so.

It's all true. Not just because some site said so, but because the Congressional investigations of the Church Committee back in 1975 said so.

Once I realised something so ridiculous could be true, I started reading "conspiracy" stuff and getting an education. I draw the line on talk of aliens, but a lot else I'm prepared to check out now. Whereas before I was very much right wing in the vein of Hannity and Limbaugh and Ann Coulter (I used to love her), I'm just a social conservative now. I realise the right-left dichotomy is meaningless, since the elite controls both. (It's amazing -- they fund both sides through the tax-exempt foundations and what have you!)

(Continued...)

(...continued)

The funny thing is, I used to think that places like the US suffer from markedly less corruption than Brazil. The only difference is, I believe, in the middle classes. There is far less corruption amongst the middle classes in countries like America, whereas corruption is spread throughout the whole society in Brazil. But high up America is amazingly corrupt. My goodness! I'm still shaking my head at what I'm learning. And what about the drug trade? It's basically run by the CIA! And, my, how all this sorta stuff is interconnected -- the CIA and its drug dealing, Wall Street laundering billions and billions of dollars of illegal money from drugs and bribery and what have you, the debauchery that they elite engage in (at the Bohemian Grove male homosexual pornstars are hired to service the guests), the weird satanic rituals the elite of the elite get into, etc. And the reason you don't hear it? Because the head of The Economist and Time, etc., are attending the Bilderberg meetings themselves!

You know, it wasn't too long ago that I would laugh in amazement with my fellow right-wing/conservative Brazilian friends at the absurdity of Brazilians suggesting that the US had designs on the Amazon and plans to invade. While I haven't seen any hard evidence to suggest this, I certainly no longer discount such a possibility. I wholeheartedly support Ricardo Amaral's insistence that Brazil acquire a nuclear deterrent -- though this I supported as a prudent measure before, largely because of Brazil's racial makeup and the continued existence of eugenicists.

So, yeah. I'm gettin' myself a real edumacation for sure now! I love Alex Jones (very entertaining as well), Webster Tarpley (a bit socialistic, but bloody well educated and knowledgeable), and just finished reading Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed's amazingly documented and revelatory The War On Truth: 9/11 Disinformation, and the Anatomy of Terrorism. I don't know how Ahmed, quite a young man, could have got all the information he did. He must have received it from sympathetic members of MI5/6. I'm currently reading Michael Ruppert's Crossing the Rubicon, which is adding to my understanding of the sheer levels of corruption that exists amongst the Powers That Be and their underlings. Having said that, I don't subscribe to his peak-oil thesis, which is the motif of the book and the framework in which the elites' actions are interpreted.

I'm not embarrassed about my previous ignorance about such things. After all, how was I to know? And the ironic thing is, I could have only learnt about this inadvertently. Had someone come straight up and suggested that I look into all this conspiracy stuff (like watching "Loose Change") I would have simply refused. Not only because it would be ridiculous, but it would be downright offensive to even contemplate giving such thinking any serious regard. I guess the Lord works in mysterious ways.

Not too hard to monitor and tax usage.

Light planes have a Hobbs Meter that starts to register time as soon as the oil pressure comes on.

Big planes operate on a different system, takeoff to touchdown, so as not to add up all those taxiing and waiting hours.

Every van in Brazil over nine pax and every truck from a F4000 on up is supposed to have a tachograph.

All the government needs to do is mandate the installation of a time or mileage counter. It could be checked at intervals, or operate like OBD II, interrogated from outside the vehicle.

OBD III is still a few years away, but will be mandated eventually. The roadside stalk will interrogate your vehicle´s OBD III and find out if you are polluting, if fees have been paid, speed, if your seatbelts are fastened, and much more, stolen etc., and shut you down remotely if it doesn´t like what it sees.

In an electric car it could easily monitor mileage and have your account debited.

In Brazil, which is said to have the largest number of people of African descent outside Nigeria, there are no black or mixed-race political leaders with any chance of standing as presidential candidates in the foreseeable future.

How did you come to this conclusion, seeing as how the whole succession thing is up in the air at the moment and there are very few candidates of any color who can truly be said to be viable at the national level? And do you really think that color is a litmus test here? Do you think that a black man like, say, Celso Pitta, the ex-mayor of SP, who probably WOULD have been a viable candidate right now if he hadn't gotten impeached, would be "Brazil's Obama"? Because it seems to me like the only qualification you're looking at for said position is color.

Like him or not, John, Lula has had much better politics re: the poor and excluded than Obama is likely to have, despite the fact that he's white.

To ask the kind of question you ask is simply ridiculous, as it posits that Brazilian and American politics operate in a generally comparable fashion when you and I both know that they damned well don't.

I mean, let's go back to the beginning of my question and turn yours around: where is Brazil's John McCain? I certainly don't see a white politician whose lined up to an obvious successor to the presidency. Do you?

You said: “It is politically incorrect to ask such questions!”

If you read most of my writings then you would find out that I don’t follow the politically correct norms.

The people who invented the politically correct stuff are the people who want to control what is considered free speech.

Here in American universities around the country they have placed a muzzle on most university professors because of this politically correct stuff, and everybody is afraid of expressing what is on their minds.

I am not one of these people and I take no prisoners.

You are trying to be diplomatic and I understand it, but there is always someone who calls your attention for example: here in the United States they have a ton of generals, but after listening on a regular basis most of these guys talk on television for one reason or another there is one American general that he seems superior to the rest of the bunch. His name is General Anthony Zinni and you can read his biography at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Zinni

I guess you also can recognize the real thing when you see it.

Thanks for your reply.

.

key words mandate , and you dont think some one will sell you a device that will make the stalk read wrong !!!! it was made first .

colleges are stuck with tenure on most teachers so like politicans it takes a lot of work to get rid of them , and most step over there bounds not near as much as the teachers in brasil do .

but they can go to jail for what they say .

the Military are not to speak out ajusent the goverment as they can be held to the UCMJ ARTICAL 124 .
THERE are a bunch of good men up there but my vote is for the top gen for the marines and he is the camnder of the JCOS .

but as long as the press can say and do what they want with no fear of being held to lible well look at the hung by press we get in the US even if they are rong by the time the truth comes out you are screw and if they are made to print a retraction it is buried on the back page or given on the 5 am news .

The people who invented the politically correct stuff are the people who want to control what is considered free speech.

Sorry, Ricardo. But if you want to survive in a government job in Brasil of today, you have to be politically correct. Also applies the ancient proverb of being "Three Monkeys".

Here in American universities around the country they have placed a muzzle on most university professors because of this politically correct stuff, and everybody is afraid of expressing what is on their minds

Here in Brazil, they have not put a muzzle on the University Professors (especially the Federal and State ones). They do have tenure track positions once they were approved in a "Concurso" and admitted into the universities as "Professors". But an indirect way of putting the "muzzle" is not to give any grants to those ones who are not politically correct. So this way, the situation is no different here from that of U.S.

You are trying to be diplomatic and I understand it,

No Ricardo, I am not trying to be diplomatic, but very realistic.

His name is General Anthony Zinni and you can read his biography at

Ricardo, I am quite familiar with Zinni. The difference between him and the Brazilian General who gave the interview in the link I sent before is, that our General is more forceful in his convictions and Zinni was not. Besides, as far as I remember, Zinni became outspoken after he retired, while ours is still in uniform.

btw, Forrest is absolutely right while commenting that the press takes immense pleasure in hounding outspoken people(In or out of uniform) and transmit the opinions of such people at 5 A.M.

Please keep learning .And above all keep spreading the knowledge. It is so apparent you have a clearer picture than most. Have you noticed there is no rebuttal? And not likely to be much. As most should be doing their homework

Ever heard the phrase, "If you´re so smart, how come you ain´t rich?"

Charles Murray ain't rich. He's just your usual academic trying to get by. And most people in MENSA, I'm sure, aren't rich. They usually work for a salary for the C-students in life, albeit in "prestigious" positions.

Please keep learning .And above all keep spreading the knowledge. It is so apparent you have a clearer picture than most. Have you noticed there is no rebuttal? And not likely to be much. As most should be doing their homework

Thanks man. Let's hope they're seeking an education rather than waiting there as sheeple for the corporate-controlled media to tell them what to believe. (Ha, ha, I can't believe I said "corporate-controlled". Only a few months ago that would have sounded sooooo disagreeably left-wing to me!LOL)

Firstly, it should be clarified that I have not entirely read the extensive amount of large, rich and rather “informative” views, opinions and insults lively exchanged here since the inception of this noteworthy and popular theme.

In view of the above, while I fully intend to participate in future debates in greater detail, as those who already know me probably expect, the purpose of this initial Entry is to provide my general opinion about (and impressions of) Mr. Obama, while at the same time attempting to provide a “general impression” about the extremely interesting group of characters I’ve learned to like, respect and abhor at a related blog.

In my opinion, Mr. Obama is one of the most eloquent, thoughtful, and intelligent individuals to run for public office in the United States of America. His words are carefully considered, well placed, truthful and undoubtedly sincere. Although some of his views may be considered objectionable – such as a rapid withdrawal of American troops from Iraq, or his well intended but unrealistic plans for tackling the serious energy crisis – most of his promises and/or intended policies are not only very sound, but also they appear to acquire nearly “mystical” proportions in light of their potential benefit in so many different aspects of political, social, and economic factors, as follows:
-Obama offers immense hope to a battered country, in the brink of recession;
-Obama can be identified as a beacon for the hopeless and helpless segments of American society;
-Obama represents the first visible “sign” of a long overdue need for renewal and transformation within the American political thought;
-Obama provides most of America’s friends and allies with a “breath of fresh” air in the International political arena, and likely to return sanity to Washington DC;
-Obama is - I trust - exactly what the World has been awaiting, hoping and expecting from the USA since the tragic assassination JFK nearly five decades ago…
Consequently, I suppose most of you suspect, at this point, that I am likely to vote for Senator Obama in November  - You got that right! Besides, it’s not like I would EVER remotely consider the vague possibility of voting for ANY representative of the odious, religious Republican Party…

On a much lighter & amusing note, what a great delight (and in one single case, a disappointment) to find so many familiar names excitedly discussing, supporting and disputing one another’s views in such colorful detail! I absolutely love the energy, the eloquence, the innocence (of few) and, most importantly, the sheer passion!

Scholarly dnbaiacu, always very eloquent, intelligent, and argumentative, is always ready to engage and challenge any debater until the very the “end” (unless, of course, he gets “lost” – quoting his own words - LOL). Despite some “unwelcome” proclivities, it’s always a pleasure to argue with him (by the way, I was surprised upon finding he is also a fellow member of the “dual nationality” club)

Wise Double-Dot, as customary the arbitrator, the voice of moderation and caution, unless driven to the limit of his tolerance. Exceedingly agreeable and clever, and the source of sound advice, I consider Double-Dot as one of the most cultivated, pleasant, and interesting Brazilians I have ever expected to meet. His eloquence, mischievous manipulation of logic, along with the manners of a Peer of the Realm, Double-Dot uses his extensive list of qualities, in order to “turn” issues around, without the subject realizing the effect, until later… LOL I also expect additional exchanges with my favorite “feudal vassal” (using his words).

Joao da Silva, generally sensible, very cautions, and clever, is often ready to clarify issues, rectify his objections, and provide important information. His shrewd style is particularly noteworthy when one contemplates his amazing abilities of an “instigator”… Indeed, he is particularly bestowed with the “art” of triggering some “colorful elements” (of questionable origin) to strike and yell on issues, which Joao, being a gentleman, could not himself articulate  (by the way, it appears Joao is like to be as old as I expected – thus explaining his great caution and acumen)

Nameless – (A.K.A “Triple Dot” or perhaps “Four-dots). Well what can I say? Nameless is… a mystery “LOL”. While this baffling source of occasional entries, tends to be as brilliant as Double-Dot, but often as disagreement as some whom I strive (unsuccessfully) to overlook. Mostly likely the combination of a variety of anonymous entries, but possibly one the clever tools utilized by Double Dot.

Well, I suppose I must finally mention the “Infamous One Who Shall remain Unmentionable”, the worst nemesis of Brazil and (most) Brazilians, the source of endless strings of pointless statistics, relatively knowledge of World economy (I hate to admit), exceedingly obsessive by definition, an alleged admirer of Venezuelan females (which astounds me), a resident of the most boring city on Earth, and citizen of the most racist, hypocritical and Fake” nation of Central Europe – a country which does not even has the decency of developing its own culture (but borrows from neighboring civilizations)… Indeed, he is the most infamous (albeit relatively clever), and the most disagreeable (albeit somewhat entertaining), he is… (well) “The One Whose Name was banned from The Heavens by Jupiter Himself” and, whom I allege to be the (peasant) founder of the “Let’s-Bash-Brazil-For no good reason” Club – LOL. I’m absolutely certain, most of you know exactly whom I’m attempting to describe

Well, dear friends and FOE, I’m finally here!
(p.s. feel free to criticize the errors – the text is way too long for editing, although it came directly from my “noble” multi-national heart)

"The Racist Anglo Saxon Frame of Mind
written by ..., August 02, 2008
Even though I sport a similar phenotype and genotype, I am ashamed of their obsessive fixation with color pigmentation. Biological facts have taught us that among trillions upon trillions of genes, only a half dozen differentiates our skin color, the same amount that differentiate us from another close species, the chimpanzees.

I am in total agreement with Brazuca… Of course, culture matters, culture matters totally. Cultural aspirations drive us all. Look at the Jews, for instance. They are highly motivated to education from the time they are born, hence their success all over the world. Anti-Semitism is nothing more then jealousy for their great achievements in the arts and science.

Since Brasil has become an influential emerging power, now we are blamed in destroying our environment, practicing racism….bla bla bla. The irony of it all is that is precisely what “they” have done the last few centuries!

In Brasil, we will never be referred to as a Blackman, a Catholic, a Jew, but rather as my friend Mary, John or Paul. Racial stratification and isolation is an European-North American trade. Don’t blame us for it!

Scottish man, try again…

Costinha"

IS this f**king idiot for real? No ones buying your attempt at intelligent conversation you knuckle dragging, mouth breathing Brazilian piece of trash.

Better luck next time.

Tata

You said: “Consequently, I suppose most of you suspect, at this point, that I am - You got that right!likely to vote for Senator Obama in November Besides, it’s not like I would EVER remotely consider the vague possibility of voting for ANY representative of the odious, religious Republican Party…


*****


Ricardo: In my opinion Barack Obama is going to lose the election in November of 2008.

Enough Hillary supporters are staying home on Election Day. Barack is going to lose in many swing states even if by a small margin

At the end of the day the Democratic Party is going to find out that people still vote for their own kind.

I will be very surprised if Barack Obama manages to win in November.

I have been a supporter of Al Gore for the last 2 years, and I am very disappointed that he decided not to run for president.

Many of my friends and I are voting for Ralph Nader in November 2008.

By the way, if everybody who is disappointed about the selection of candidates available by the major parties in November 2008 voted for Ralph Nader then Ralph Nader would win that race.

The Republicans Party will be represented by a Dinosaur and the Democratic Party will be represented by a rookie, with no substance.

The mainstream media keep saying that Barack Obama is a rock star. If that is the case then they should go with Bruce Springsteen at least he is a real rock star, besides he is a local kid from New Jersey.

.

Ricardo
Despite my significant respect, admiration and support for Senator Obama, as evidenced in Part-1 of my introductory statement, I did not attempt to take up the role of either a political forecaster or of mystical “guru”, predicting the Democratic Party’s nominee’s inevitable election for the Presidency of the USA . Rather, I’ve simply and resolutely stated my personal support for his cause, the many important, sublime reasons why I believe he should (and deserved to) be elected, the likely benefits which his victory in November would mostly likely represent for America and its friends/allies, along with the momentous impact which his visions and ideals might have upon the world at large if they were to be implemented… Nothing more, nothing less!

That there is enormous challenge, of Titanic proportions, for a man of questionable experience, and of unacceptable background (for many), is indisp**able! Such a task will be anything but extremely hard to achieve, to say the very least; not only because of overwhelming opposition by the regressive, hateful strength of the so-called “moral majority” of America’s odious Bible belt, but even more so because of the inescapable and historically tragic American proclivity towards racists views, attitudes, and fears…

Equally challenging, I must concur, will be for Senator Obama to swiftly take control of his own party and attempt to “conquer the hearts” of the many bitter, hard-core Hillary Clinton supporters, as you correct noted in the previous message. Because a significant section of the “Hillary-clan” remain so staunchly poised against Mr. Obama as to refrain from voting, or worse, to shift support towards the Republican “Dinosaur” as you colorfully described, the extend of the difficulties is almost too discouraging to consider… When adding (again) to this equation, the paramount, inevitable, and endlessly revolving issue of race, then the entire effort might appear too awe-inspiring as to appear bound on fateful, hopeless mission…

Yet, despite all these impediments, I truly hope that the Democratic Nominee will, somehow, be sufficiently strong, balanced, and secure in order to overcome the “nearly impossible task at hand”, for if he fails… I’m afraid there will be little or no hope for this once powerful country to recover even an inch, a millimeter of its former wealth, lost power and previous influence.

... another Obama spammer, as intelligent as a computer bot can get. Troll.

More evasive, self-centered and constantly flip-flopping, indicating how clueless of a leader he is and will be, there is not. The guy doesn't even sound intelligent. He sounds unsure, hesitating and "look at me!" all the time.

Well, Brazilians elected Lula, so we are guilty of electing retarded criminal f**ktards too.

deff dumb and blind

it flows from ever crack in soicty in brasil from TV to congress on the streets .

i have taken my workers to resturants and had the manager tell me they dont serve them in here , and when we sat down they just walked by us like we were standing on the road , not till i had the secerty to the mayor on the phone did they feed us .

look at how many blacks lula has been around while in office .
seen any pic of that ???????????

What's on your mind? If you'll forgive the exaggeration!

I have no argument to a guy who thinks Taco Bell is the Mexican phone company. JR, try to close your eyes and see the tiny specter of your life float before you like a fragment of fecal matter.

Please provide us with toilet paper in your next defecation, OK? Thanks…


Costinha

Firstly, the name "A BRAZILIAN" could not possibly be more misleading, let alone vague; thus for anyone who may intend to address you directly in the same manner you have just addressed me above - in your imaginative "Augustus is…” reply, would seriously risk affecting ANY other casual Brazilian who happens to be reading the entry, completely unaware of the fact that you have sequestered their nationality to your own personal use… Yet, this is completely besides the point here.

I cannot emphasize enough that, although I sincerely disagree with your views of Obama (to which you are certainly entitled), and although I honestly consider Obama to be the "best type" and "most inspiring" individual, I've seen running for office in the US, the bottom line unfortunately is that I do NOT have a choice, for in the USA, there are unfortunately two (feasible) parties, which is exceeding lamentable, to say the least (whereas in Brazil and most European countries, at least, you have a wide variety of parties to select).

Because I could not possibly EVER vote for anyone who represents a party which advocates "religion as a guide" or considers itself the bastion of correct morality, let alone a party which blatantly discriminates against other individual’s right to choose a type behavior and conduct which fits their own morality. These nefarious aspects of what I call “The Evil Party” is utterly unacceptable. So strongly I feel about these crucial social issues, that I must overlook other important issues, related to the economy, particularly to international affaires which I generally would lean my views towards the otherwise disagreeable republicans.

I hope this clarifies...

whereas in Brazil and most European countries, at least, you have a wide variety of parties to select

All of them are communists, socialists and other crime-oriented leftists. No, the US has more parties than Brazil. This is a false democracy.

Because I could not possibly EVER vote for anyone who represents a party which advocates "religion as a guide" or considers itself the bastion of correct morality

The universe is logical, through mathematics and logic we can explain it and everything in it. There's no such thing as moral relativism. There's only one correct path.

You may disagree that the path chosen by certain religions is the most correct one, but there's no doubt that there's only one correct way of seeing things, i.e., seeing them for what they are.

Moral relativism is not viable.

As dnbaiacu already may recall (when we debated a similar point at another site and “agreed to disagree” as Gentlemen of Civilized societies should do), I strongly believe in a completely Chaotic Universe ruled by sheer random forces; and, therefore, I would not be in a position to consider worshiping divinities, or endure repugnant ecclesiastical beliefs, or submit to absurd Totems (even if a single one – with or without an image). Instead I deem religious order, unquestionably, as the mere (unfortunate) residues of primitive societies, and ascribe as completely arbitrary any rule of conduct based on so-called “moral truths”; for they are designed to control the ignorant masses, mostly members of the lower classes, who, by unquestioningly following them, will simply fulfill the interests or otherwise satisfy the ego of the ruling establishment.

Although humans are far from perfect (as well as, I suspect, any other sentient species which may have evolved across the Universe), they are capable of building great civilizations, in due time, when scientific knowledge finally enables to them to shed the shackles of mythology, they become evolved citizens of Civil societies, whose secular authorities establish mutually acceptable “basic rules and regulations” to which all sectors of the population should abide, using the strict rule of (civil) law.

Brazuca.

It is the first time I come to this site, looking for information on Racism. I am a black from Brazil living in New York right now.

I have to say that you are trying very hard to defend a behaviour or a tendency that is actually bad. Any European and North American have noticed that Brazil society is clearly divisive.

Being a black man in Brazil does not necessarily represents being attacked by Klu Klux KLan. But I remember while I lived there being called Niger in a Corporate environment, and having no one to talk to or to make anything about it, because no one wants to be witness when their job are at a stake.

What this Scottish man diagnosed is serious, blacks are shown in Brazil as maids, because the best way tio destroy a society is to destroy their self-steem, and sorry but this is what happens in Brazil clearly, pretending this does not occur is to refuse the obvious.

Just like in Africa, Brazilian blacks have low class jobs, they cannot afford education. What you spoke about Africa clearly represents a non-knowledge of what social aspects were involved in creating a social massacre in African Continent, which most civilized countries in Europe and North America are responsbible for.

Having married an American girl, I have to say I have never seen so many black people having white-collar professions in Brazil as I have seen in US. When it comes to race, we are not talking about social niceness, we are talking about social opportunities.

Can you get that? I think people blame on Culture to excuse themselves from their responsibilities. I think Brazuca you need to re-think your attitude, it is not compassionate, and you are becoming a lawyer of the absurd. Sorry to say that , but I think you need to get a grip!

Ric, what a piece of trash you wrote. You are probably the writer of a book called THE BELL CURVE. People of upper class are more intelligent than lower class, where did you learn this stupidity. First of all the Nazzi system also took advantage of thoughts written by Nietzche.

I think the Nazzi system managed to do one thing to the planet, accentuate the stupid though which shows not intelectual intelligence but moral weakness that you and probably your ancestors even have to write something so horrible like this.

I hope that life will teach about superiority in a karmic way.

I think people blame on Culture to excuse themselves from their responsibilities.

Excuse me, who else would be responsible for your life? The State? The "white man"?

Isn't the state the ultimate slave owner? Why would you rather be told what to do and think instead of pursuing your own life and success? It seems to me that some would rather choose the slave-life, where all choices are made for them, than actually be responsible for their own actions.

The values in the Brazilian society are the real problem.

Nobody needs to be compassionate, we only need to use reason to see things as they really are.

...I strongly believe in a completely Chaotic Universe ruled by sheer random forces...

There are no "sheer random forces", there are forces and they can be calculated because through logic is how everything works. Cause and effect.

If you don't know then why do you take final conclusions? It seems to me that you are committing the same mistake as religions fundamentalists. You aren't so different after all.

Didn´t say a word about race or intrinsic worth. Just observed that in a given community here in the interior of Brazil, some people start to do better than others financially, saving, investing, starting a business, not squandering it or drinkling it away, soon they own a store, perhaps a tile factory, always good to double it up with agriculture at the same time, and in a generation, they are middle class or higher. Whereas those with whom they grew up are still in the same rut.

Would common sense tell us that the ones who dreamed, saved, worked hard and invested smart are less intelligent than the rest, or more?

There are some people who can go to cursinhos till the day they die and never pass vestibular once. There are some people who couldn´t pass if they were given the answers in advance. Some of these people are upper class. They tend to go to private universities rather than federal.

But on average, more are from the least prosperous classes. Not being able to figure things out is part of what makes people less prosperous.

People who are smart and hide it often have a built in advantage. George Bush actually has a higher I.Q. than either Kerry of Gore. The accent is probably affected. This gives him one up on those to try to put one over on him. Whereas his father was an eastern Brahmin preppie. And talks like it.

Rev. Wright brought up the subject of ebonics. If that helps him get through the day, fine. It´s a free country (from Imperial County north).

"Brazil´s lack of Nobels has no genetic basis. Blame it on a faulty education". Recent headline here. Made me cringe. Let´s get over the often-cited National Inferiority Complex. To even write that headline show a lack of confidence. Unsure if it´s true.

And what about Costinha often reminding us that he is Western European in appearance. Where´s Sigmund when we need his take on something? Methinks the .........speaketh too much. And who cares? His reminders are in themselves racist, while purporting to be the opposite.

What my ancestors were evidently always shouting was "One More for Hector" as they chopped other tribes to pieces with foices. I´m not proud of that, but there you are.

I do not endorse racism, ever… yesterday, today or tomorrow!

Likewise, I cannot help what I look like or the blood that runs in my veins… And yes, I am natural blonde and I have blue eyes, so what? That does not make me superior or inferior to anyone on this planet.

Be it Yellow, White, or the Black race, Jewish, Catholic, or of Moslem affiliation, Heterosexual or Homosexual preference, Physically or Mentally Challenged, they are all my brothers and sisters, and I respect them all.

But you, Mr.Yowza (RIC), you are a Racist, Irrational & Conceited.

Good day,

Costinha

There I did it, gave you a chance to remind us once again that you have blue eyes and are Legally Blond. By the way, straight or naturally curly?

My apologies to other readers for this Gaffe Crassa.

Gentlemen

Hopefully one of you can provide a synopsis of some of the personalities around this site.

So far, I have met only one - interesting - Ricardo Amaral.
The so-called Brazuca, whom I had heard of (from dnbaiacu) has been around, and INTERESTINGLY, we reside in the very same city - New York.
Anyhow... Looking forward to seeing any of you around...

Cheers

"A Brazilian"

While the gentlemen around us appear to be dilacerating one another on the subject of Race - no doubt a hard issue - we got stuck on arguing over interpretation of "forces" in the universe... You appear to see a certain design, an "intentional cause" -- while I agree there is a cause, like for instance the "cause" of a meteorite to hit a planetoid", I feel that something ELSE equally random DEVIATED the original meteorite thereby eventually caused the planetoid hit...
The way I see it, there is complete Randomness behind any and all events, which simply cannot be analyzed or explained (TODAY), given our currently level of technological development.

I respect your views, and hope you may be in a position to feel the same way...

Cheers

I have to say that you are trying very hard to defend a behaviour or a tendency that is actually bad. Any European and North American have noticed that Brazil society is clearly divisive.

I have to commend you for your input on this. I don't need to be black to understand that Brazil has serious issues regarding to institutional racism.

How do we stop racism? I believe people like Ric will never change, but it begins with the individual, at work, while with friends, within our homes. I am glad that in my home, my kids have learned to appreciate every culture, every skin colour, and every religion.

If you will read what I have said carefully, you will note that I have said very little about race. I am almost totally Brazilianized. This just underlines the sensitivity that has made sociological analysis a minefield.

Gentlemen

Hopefully one of you can provide a synopsis of some of the personalities around this site.

Gladly! All the personalities are great people, in spite of their different viewpoints. At the end of the day, they will all gather together and have some "cold ones" and enjoy some intellectually stimulating conversation. None of them is dumb, regardless of the "color" of the passport they carry.

That is democracy, is it not?

Instead I deem religious order, unquestionably, as the mere (unfortunate) residues of primitive societies, and ascribe as completely arbitrary any rule of conduct based on so-called “moral truths”; for they are designed to control the ignorant masses, mostly members of the lower classes, who, by unquestioningly following them, will simply fulfill the interests or otherwise satisfy the ego of the ruling establishment.

I AGREE with you here.

Although humans are far from perfect (as well as, I suspect, any other sentient species which may have evolved across the Universe),

And here.. And my question to you is that are you suggestion the possiblity of "other life forms".. The bible calls them "angels" (spirit creatures) there are miilions of them. One third of them rebelled. You can call them "extra-terrestials" or UFO's if you like

when scientific knowledge finally enables to them to shed the shackles of mythology, they become evolved citizens of Civil societies, whose secular authorities establish mutually acceptable “basic rules and regulations” to which all sectors of the population should abide, using the strict rule of (civil) law.

If this were to happen with humans being "imperfect" We'd have something worse than China or North Korea going on. Almost similar to repressive Iran and other Middle East nations, just without any reference to a diety.
You'd be surprised though that this is exactly the objective of the secret societies I gave you a list to research. Lastly it might interest you to know that this whole scenario is already in the Bible. I am not trying to change your opinion (which of course I couldn't) I would like to "persuade" you though to do more research.
By the way , thanks for my "blogger profile" You were nice I am learning everyday from "someone"out there. And it is fun. Many bring things up you have to look into yourself.

Besides, it’s not like I would EVER remotely consider the vague possibility of voting for ANY representative of the odious, religious Republican Party…

I thought to peg the Republican party this way. But good insight. This is EXACTLY why McCain will not win. Such views are not part of the over plan of the Trilateral Commission and CFR. The focus of the "corporate controlled" government and media is exactly to produce atheism and agnocism or plain hedonism , the adherents of the later being MUCH easier to control. The former being more likely to "think things through" since they have already thought themselves out of being so completely "stupefied by that whore "Babylon The Great" (Revelation 17:4-6) .
I'm sorry. I had to go there I am not so intelligent. Nor am I a prophet. I just read ,and seek ,until it all comes together.
I encourage you to do the same.
Hint.. Put pride aside

Hint.. Put pride aside

May I take the liberty of modifying your quote to "Put PRIDE & PREJUDICE ASIDE". Lord Augustus would love my suggestion.

I am sorry but I am going to have to respond to you also. My mother is a black Brazilian and I have dual citizenship.. I can address this.

The problem IS "culture. The prevalence of a SLAVE culture. And we DARE not expect "others" to help us move away from this. That is the biggest fallacy. The more we start thinking like the "establishment" wants us to think(ie. putting aside moral values,) the less power and more "under their control" we will remain. The majority are not interested in helping us. We should not expect it. They issues of their own to deal with. The only true advantage in America is that "MONEY" has talked for a long time. And these days more blacks have more access to it. But the basic infrastructure of the system has not changed.
Every time you go home "to Brazil" my friend and visit. Do your brethren a favor and INSIST and I mean INSIST that they find the TRUTH in the bible. Whoever wants the knowledge will get it. And they don't need that much an education to accept it. The heart just has to be right. And beyond that there is nothing else you I or anyone else can do. Even most of the "downtrodden" don't want any better. They are content with their condition.
Truth isn't for everybody.

I think people blame on Culture to excuse themselves from their responsibilities. I think Brazuca you need to re-think your attitude, it is not compassionate, and you are becoming a lawyer of the absurd. Sorry to say that , but I think you need to get a grip!

I think Brazuca has more of a grip than you think.
Black people understand that they are under the grips of a slave "culture" more than you may think. It is just in question just how to break free of it because of the pervasive influence to the contrary. Brazuca is not black I am assuming ,but has also recognized that he has a few "chains" to break of from the holds of the "establishment" himself.
Good thing you are here "Black Sheep". Continue to be more observant. Learn more and spread the knowledge.
Maybe you are saying that the "establishment" should offer more oppurtunities? There is no need to expect that to happen. And as they have offered more oppurtunities over the decades, it was by force of the Civil Rights Movement. It was no longer economically viable to hold blacks down. Better to let them spend their money , "on the wrong things".
Liberty through knowledge. ONLY. It's free. And it is out there more than ever before. It is a waste of energy waiting on the government to hand you "their" version of it.
Another thing. Don't be so enamored by "corporate america." It is "passee" now. They'll have your head on a chopping block in a minute. Get a home based business or a trade quick. And keep buying property back at home with a view to "flipping it". Brazil is still affordable in certain pockets. At the end of the day money knows no color even in Brazil and you need just "that" to send a youngster to a decent school. No different here in the good ole US of A.
Lay off Brazuca , he's no foe.

As for Ric.
I enjoyed his last entry.(minus the Costiha blasting, just to make it clear I am not taking sides on that one). He explains his points when countered with good examples.

As for Brazuca.
I look forward to hearing whatever he has to say as it is obvious he has stepped out of the box. Believes in something "higher than himself". Admits he doesn't know everything. And acknowledges the compliments that are given him. We think quite alike, so I am naturally biased. And it is even better because we more than likely have completely different backgrounds but very similar viewpoints. Openmindedness can only explain this. Perfect for blogging because it allows a freer flow of dialogue. Tending to desist from disputing and namecalling which is so distacting and not to mention plain ignorant.

-- while I agree there is a cause, like for instance the "cause" of a meteorite to hit a planetoid", I feel that something ELSE equally random DEVIATED the original meteorite thereby eventually caused the planetoid hit...
The way I see it, there is complete Randomness behind any and all events, which simply cannot be analyzed or explained (TODAY), given our currently level of technological development.

Dude , what have you just said???? !
I really need an interpretor
But you cleaned it up nicely
(TODAY)
Do you see how it takes "blind faith" to buy what you just said.

t is true that black maids represented the realistic living, however I think TV Globo, majority white upper class (business people, actors, etc.), didn't break the status quo for a reason. That reason is institutional racism.

Correlation does not equal causation. Just because darker-skinned Brazilians are generally poorer than lighter-skinned Brazilians does not mean that their skin tone has anything to do with their situation. Skin tone is incidental in this case. Those with darker skin in Brazil will tend to have a more African rather than European influence in their culture and worldview, and vise-versa. That means darker-skinned Brazilians will tend to have less of the middle-class values lighter-skinned Brazilians have, which is the cause of the latter's generally better socio-economic status.

Simple way to solve this is to ask yourself a question- Are you saying that middle class values are good for everyone? Yeah, let's talk about those values: mamma and pappa pay for patricinho to live at home until what age? What about work? Usually, patricinhos/nhas have a maid paid slave wages and live in "barracos". My family has a maid, but they build a house for her, her kids have access to private health care and vacation time. I bet this is not the case around "most middle class valued". Who is to say that "the values" you so like to talk about are worthy of any cause? I would rather value education, equal opportunity, dignity-which blacks, morenos, mulatos in Brazil do not get. I disagree with you and will continue to disagree. Brazil has serious racial issues, unless we talk about it in a civilized way, then we are all wasting out time.

The cycle can be broken by changing the culture to assume more middle-class values, such as: temperance and continence, delayed gratification, future orientation, self-discipline, commitment to rigorous education, etc. As long as the culture of darker-skinned Brazilians tends to lend itself more easily to spontaneity and immediate gratification, the lifestyle stemming from middle-class values will be beyond their grasp.

This is the most absurd opinion, but it is yours not mine. I see the lack of opportunity, lack of education and lack of social justice. If given a chance, a black child and a white child will strive for the same things: happiness, a job, a safe home, maybe a family.



Many cultural groups have arrived in Brazil only to successfully break this alleged cycle you believe exists, by the second generation. Take a look at the (Christian) Lebanese, the Japanese, the Germans, for example.

The way to educate and empower "Blacks", contrary to forcing TV stations to paint a picture that does not exist, is to teach them the middle-class values they need to assume a middle-class lifestyle. The media is not making a profit on racism, because racism is not involved. They are merely making a profit on providing viewing that people want to watch, which portrays upper-class lifestyles and so casts people who look like the upper class.

If you think that portraying blacks as maids is painting the reality, then you belong to the class of those who think novelas are portraying a reality. There are very few novelas, such as Escrava Isaura, that are in the category of novelas that educate and portray the real condition of slaves during the early/late 1800s. However, what we have now is a nothing close to the reality of those who watch it.

Did the Williams sisters break the "all white club" because they say on TV "black" women playing tennis at Wimbledon? If not, then you've disproved your argument.

I used to live in England, and can say with confidence that the (some)British people and media do not like the Williams sisters. They adore Anna Kournikova and Maria Sharapova. Why? Because they are beautiful, white, and blonde. Neither can be said to be excellent tennis players. In my opinion,the Williams sister are top star and have been mistreated by fellow tennis player Martina Hingis.

Martina has accused the Williams sister of getting sponsors because they are black: http://www.buzzle.com/editoria...1-4476.asp
There are plenty of racist comments about the girls on British media.

I think they are a role model for all young girls, specially the African-American girls, white women have plenty of models, due to opportunity. I think their sportsmanship is incredible and I hope more girls out there will have their posters on a wall instead of Paris Hilton and Britney.

They are heroes for many African-Americans? What about for the other Americans? Is the US so racially divided that the Williams sisters can only be heroes for one segment of the population? If so, don't bring that disease of racial division to Brazil. Pele is a hero to all Brazilians, not just cafe-com-leite or bem-branca Brazilians -- all Brazilians

.

Yes, Pele is an international icon, it took him a lot of hard work. Compare him to Zico, quick rise to fame. Still, it was a lot easier for Zico in his early career than for Pele.

The flat earth comment was childish. Combate ao Racismo was founded by Blacks not whites, therefore if you have an issue, take it with them. Obviously, they must feel ignored, mistreated by the Brazilian society or the other option is that they organizers must suffer from a mental disorder. I think I know what I would rather believe in.

Many cultural groups have arrived in Brazil only to successfully break this alleged cycle you believe exists, by the second generation. Take a look at the (Christian) Lebanese, the Japanese, the Germans, for example

.

The above comment was not mine, but Brazucas. I didn't delete the whole post...

How do we stop racism? I believe people like Ric will never change, but it begins with the individual, at work, while with friends, within our homes. I am glad that in my home, my kids have learned to appreciate every culture, every skin colour, and every religion.

Enough said

The values in the Brazilian society are the real problem.

Have to agree wholeheartedly!

It appears that now you've gone and done it Agustus (and Joao has deftly and indirectly fanned the flame such that not even all of our cold ones combined will squelch the PuffaFish).

Not wanting to show partiality either way Agustus but I do want to know more of what was in the back of your mind when you said: "along with the momentous impacts his visions and ideals might have upon the world at large". I've not seen any substantive expression of visions nor of ideals that stand out in any "strikes me" kind of way as yet. Perhaps these will develop or be invented as the battle progresses??

Anyway, who's spending reveillon in or near Rio? Getting together face a face for a couple of cold ones sounds great.

Yet another troll article from fitzpatrick. I most be really bored to be taking the bait.

I'm an American who grow up in the most segregated city in the USA, chicago. If you are black and live in chicago, there are many areas on the south side that will throw rocks are your cars if you are black - I seen it with my own eyes. You certainly cannot be black and live on the west side of western avenue on the south side of chicago (a big area).

I've lived in Brazil for 7 years - 3 in SP and 4 in Fortaleza. I'm a computer programmer whose worked everywhere from the brazilian government to private consulting. I have a few observations.

The first observation is that brazilians treat the few immigrants that live here far far better than what would be expected in the USA. In fact, brazilian friends of mine driving in the USA have been stopped by the police via racial profiling, ie, for looking black. I get asked the same stupid questions almost everyday, but its always just nice curiosity. I have never heard any racial slurs since I moved here.

The second observation is that there is no segregation in Brazil. If you are 100% negro in Brazil, you can go and live anywhere, anytime. Think of the opposite situation in chicago, and it to me is an important distinction.

The third observation I have is that there are indeed few black programmers in brazil, or bank employees or really any white collar profession. Yet, the same is true in the USA. Go to the bank in chicago, or buy insurance. You won't see many black faces.

The fourth observation I have is that my favorite thing about brazil is the lack of division among races and religions. It exists of course - buts its less of a problem than any country in this hemisphere (I've travelled through almost all of them). Look at the middle east like egypt - under constant threat of war and christian / muslim tension. Fortaleza is perhaps the least likely place on earth a war will break out - in my mind due to racial and religious harmony.

My last observation is while few are 100% negro in brazil - an important point that helps harmony - my maids, babysitters and typical waiter are blacker skinned more often then not. Under Lula though and Bolsa Familia, that is changing. The difference between rich and poor in this country, and not race, is its biggest social problem. Poor people simply have more money to buy things since Lula - and I'll take buying votes versus social rioting everytime.

Peace out,
cú fedido

Ric, was that you or one of your buddies that put down in the roadway? Think Shelly1 doesn't need to worry so much about whether you will ever change (you shouldn't), keep up that ag and cartage cowboying and you might not be around a heck of alot longer.

Hopefully one of you can provide a synopsis of some of the personalities around this site.

Nice to meet you. I am from Brazil, live here in VA. Love the suburb (not really), but having kids the "white picked fence" and nitrogen fed laws did it for me.

I love this country-and hate the current state of the economy, the rep**ation and the amount of money, lost life for a senseless war. On the other hand, I am grateful that I live here, that my kids can walk down the street without the risk of being shot or mugged. I am also grateful for the opportunity to do my research, in Brazil that would be almost impossible. I am not a citizen yet, but have applied, if I could vote, I would definitely vote for Obama. I cannot stand 12 more years of Republican dominance and warmongers in office.

I don't have a bad thing to say about my American friends. They are caring, honest and fun people. You will always find a*****es everywhere you go, in Brazil, in Japan, etc. Two of my kids were born here, this is their country, their land, and I would do whatever it takes to keep it that way.

Make the hair thing straight, OK? Thank you. Also, RIC, stop rubbing Rogaine onto your swollen manboobs in the hopes of growing some chest hair, it’s just not you!


Changing directions… You folks are bitten this topic to a pulp. You cannot make a pineapple look like a melon.

It’s undeniable the way the English versus the Portuguese (and Spanish) treated their African slaves; it was not the same way. That’s is not to say the one form of slavery was better then the other, but perhaps, more human!

If you spend anytime in a Brasilian city, you will quickly realize that Brasilian blacks do not behave in the same manner as American blacks. That’s a fact!

The so-called “civil rights” were raised on former English Colonies with minority residents, such as the USA, South Africa, Caribbean Islanders, even Australia (with the aborigines). The English always enforced the “separation” of races, whereas the Portuguese and Spanish, did not. Examples are Brasil, Cuba, Colombia, Venezuela, Puerto Rico and a few others.

In Brasil, many slaves became part of their white families. The historical fact that Dom Pedro I have many love affairs with his females slaves knowingly by his Austrian wife. In the United States, slaves were sold and traded as livestock and lived in separate quarters. Resulting in very subtly discrimination in Brasil rather then open, like in the USA.

My 2 cents

Costinha

It appears that now you've gone and done it Agustus (and Joao has deftly and indirectly fanned the flame such that not even all of our cold ones combined will squelch the PuffaFish).

Long time no hear, Simpleton. Mil e uma saudações, my friend. You really did not have to drag me into these discussions. Now that you have managed to "flame" me into expressing my comments, I think Augustus is slightly confused about the true IDs of our distinguished bloggers.We have Baia Cú and Mr.Cú Fedido and our august blogger Augustus is astounded that people can identify themselves with such names (even though, I tried to explain to him that they could and young Augustus does not listen to me, in spite of my loud protests).

Now that you are back to entertain us all with your ever witty conversations, I would humbly request you to unreveal the profiles of all the bloggers in this site, so that our learned friend August will not be taken by surprise.

Many cultural groups have arrived in Brazil only to successfully break this alleged cycle you believe exists, by the second generation. Take a look at the (Christian) Lebanese, the Japanese, the Germans, for example.

My friend "Brazuca" was talking about Brazilians in Brazil ie, descendants of african slaves ,native indians and european colonizers. Not the above mentioned immigrants of any generation. Those groups did not sustain a SLAVE culture. The above mentioned cultures "came" with a cultural background equipped to navigate through ANY capitalistic society.
I think I remember you on another blog as one of those that don't believe in "Intelligent Design". So you probably make light of the historicity of Jesus Christ.
Well , just to inform you , he knew CAPITALISM very very well. And used the principles of the 'capitalistic system'of his era in quite a few of his parables. In fact throughout the whole bible the Isrealites whom todays Jews claim to base most of their beliefs on ,had many capitalistic principles , albeit fair , ( to help the poor, generally widows and orphans) as the "law" of their "way of life. The stark results can be seen today the world over in their various enclaves and communities for better or for worse.
It has been a long time since, if ever have the "Christian Lebanese," Japanese, or Germans experienced slavery. And least of all the like of which existed in Brazil or the U.S.
To compare these groups achievements to native Brazilians struggles in recent decades is completely off base. Almost insulting.
Kudos to you for handing out financial benefits to your "maids". But until they change a certain train of thought your patronage is only going to account for very little in the long run.

Do them a better "favor" and send one of their unfortunate children to a private school. And while you're at it have them read the chapter in Proverbs( a book in the Bible) that corresponds to the day of the week. Everyday. And pray for them.
"Evolution ", my friend, will take care of itself.

I'm sorry,, I'm a little peeved

Many cultural groups have arrived in Brazil only to successfully break this alleged cycle you believe exists, by the second generation. Take a look at the (Christian) Lebanese, the Japanese, the Germans, for example

Shelly I AM SORRY.. I put you on blast for a comment that wasn't yours!

Brazuca,, did you actually say this? We need to talk!
Shelly,, pardon me for the mistake in addressing that specific response to the entry to you.
But I don't retract anything that I said

We have Baia Cú and Mr.Cú Fedido and our august blogger Augustus is astounded that people can identify themselves with such names (even though, I tried to explain to him

You did not just call me an ass?

I don't know what the chip on your shoulder is. But we "are" waiting for anything substantial from you.

Just challenge ANYTHING I entered. Just challenge it PLEASE! Give me whatever you got! I'm waiting......

Not a problem

dnbaiacu, here a good MPB radio online

http://www.live365.com/stations/broadcastor

I´m amazed at all the comments on the web stating that BHM is or could be "The Antichrist".

Can they do that?

In Brasil, many slaves became part of their white families. The historical fact that Dom Pedro I have many love affairs with his females slaves knowingly by his Austrian wife. In the United States, slaves were sold and traded as livestock and lived in separate quarters. Resulting in very subtly discrimination in Brasil rather then open, like in the USA.

My 2 cents

When you can sex your slaves without them having any choice in the matter.
Love affairs?...I think not! Just submission. Work!

I will enjoy!

You did not just call me an ass?

I would never ever do it, my lad. I was remembering Augustus mentioning that your last name was somewhat suggestive and you had to spend your precious time explaining about it. As for Mr.Cú Fedido, he is well known to our regular (and distinguished bloggers) and sadly he is yet to explain why he chose such a name in spite of our discreet inquiries.

Sorry dn, no chip on the shoulders, actually it is but a hard cased bolo of soft gray matter which is a bit difficult to explain to some and not within the region of the bell curve of understanding for others to ken. Eu Maluco!@

I'm glad JDS spoke for himself first. Easier that way. What I / he was getting at was that your signature moniker has more than a few ways to try to decode/decifer. Think cu in the sense that JDS slaughtered it would not have been arse, but arsehole. In colloquial pt for pobre pescadoro/a's "baiacu" (spoken somthing like that but the spelling is probably different) is the puffer fish - nasty buggers as their sharp teeth will cut your line, even your hook and the venom in their spiny spikes must be avoided at all costs even your entire rig is not worth your life to tangle with them. Maybe one other iteration works dn-bai-a-cu (done or down by a .._), that doesn't fit you on a personality basis but it's a bit of "fun" play on words, misspellings, etc.. Cu Fedido on the other hand is not hard to finger out and not "social" in all places. (And no, Joao, C-F is new to me, I don't think I've ever seen his posts.) Just take the Kung out of Kung-Fu and substitute it in place of the periodical chart abreviation for iron in his title. With your bi-nationality I'm sure you know a few words and can figure things out from there.

Now as to substantive, I took Ric's bait and g--gled "MHM antichrist" in pt and en and came up with only 1580 hits. Not sure where his claim of the increditableness of "all" the comments he was amazed at. Paged along into the six-somthings (six-six-somethings?) and didn't find anything in the shorts interesting enough for me to follow the links.

Speaking of following dn, you know that when one has some desperate need / craving / thirst for something that the human mind will many times deceive and lead one along a course or path that "logic" and or what one "knows" one knows to be truth or fact. You're there bud whether it be by design intelligent or otherwise.

Claro, there's no one who comes to this place that is not or never has been slave to something. It's just now that more and more have a bit more choice and discretion as to what that is / what they will allow themselves to recognize. Come to the river.

That should have read that I g--gled "BHM antichrist" and it's now up to 1610 hits. (Maybe Ric's a prof or just well wired?)

Living poor in a favela, being told to enter the back door at a restaurant, and being told he could make a good soccer (futbol) player.

Basically, he is somewhere in Brazil getting his ass kicked in.

Any European and North American have noticed that Brazil society is clearly divisive.

I don't deny that there is a great divide between middle-/upper- and lower-class. I just say that race, or skin tone, is not causally relevant.

Being a black man in Brazil does not necessarily represents being attacked by Klu Klux KLan.

Glad you at least acknowledge that difference between the US and Brazil.

But I remember while I lived there being called Niger in a Corporate environment, and having no one to talk to or to make anything about it, because no one wants to be witness when their job are at a stake.

Do you mean being called negao? That is normal in Brazil, no? One has to interpret things depending on their context. It is normal for someone in Brazil to be referred to as negao or neguinho in Brazil, including by strangers. Now, clearly saying the same thing would be completely out of the question in the US, and could only be interpreted as meaning to cause insult. This is because of the tawdry history of race relations the US has had, and continues to have. Brazil is a very different country on this matter, and to fail to take this into account is to fail to be reasonable. The Aryan-looking guy in one of the recent Big Brother Brazil series (the one who one) was constantly referred to by his housemates as alemao. Neither he nor anybody else took that as offensive. And similarly, the "black" guy in the same show (he and the alemao had a very public -- and ratings-winner -- falling out on the show) was constantly referred to by all and sundry as negao. Neither he nor anybody else took that as offensive. The same thing in the US (for the "black" guy especially) would have been considered unacceptably offensive and would have caused great offence not only to the "black" and "blacks" watching but would have also offended the sensibilities of well-meaning "whites".

The US and Brazil are completely different nations and societies when it comes to race, and people really ought to take this into account, rather than simply applying a one-size-fits-all system of racial understanding, namely, the American understanding of race and its significance.

What this Scottish man diagnosed is serious, blacks are shown in Brazil as maids, because the best way tio destroy a society is to destroy their self-steem, and sorry but this is what happens in Brazil clearly, pretending this does not occur is to refuse the obvious.

All "blacks" have to do to repair this apparently destroyed self-esteem is to simply climb up the social ladder. Other cultures have come to Brazil with absolutely nothing, only to have climbed the social ladder in one or two generations.

As to discrimination, the Ugandan Indians were kicked out of Uganda by Idi Amin and arrived in England with very little. The English discriminate against the Indians as a matter of course. But despite this, these Ugandan Indians have ended up becoming one of the most successful ethnic groups in England.

Thomas Sowell is a well-known and respected American academic who's written a number of books showing have different cultures produce different results. Cultures which tend to emphasise business skills tend to do well in business, while cultures that tend to emphasise education tend to do well in education. It just depends what sort of thing your culture emphasises.

Just like in Africa, Brazilian blacks have low class jobs, they cannot afford education. What you spoke about Africa clearly represents a non-knowledge of what social aspects were involved in creating a social massacre in African Continent, which most civilized countries in Europe and North America are responsbible for.

The same factors can be seen in Africa. Tribes, cultures, ethnic groups or families that emphasise business/schooling/etc tend to do better in those areas than groups that don't. This can be seen within families as well. My sister was always a swot, and as a result, has always been an A-student. My brother and I, on the other hand, have always taken a more relaxed approach to academics, and as a result have not been A-students. I've found that the harder I've worked academically, the better I've done, and vise-versa. In high school I had friends who were top students and friends who weren't. The good students were diligent, listened in class and did their homework. They worked hard. The not-so-good students simply didn't do this. And the results showed.

Having married an American girl, I have to say I have never seen so many black people having white-collar professions in Brazil as I have seen in US. When it comes to race, we are not talking about social niceness, we are talking about social opportunities.

I have no doubt that there are greater opportunities to climb the social ladder than there are in Brazil. I just don't think race is relevant.

The very first thing Brazilians need to do to do away with this poverty is stop with that Iemanja nonsense. That's the very first thing. They have to get their worldview right. At the very least they have to adopt a linear view of history, and all that it entails. That means a fundamental understanding that nature does not have power over man (a sea goddess or what have you), and that man is actually to have dominion over the created order.

Can you get that? I think people blame on Culture to excuse themselves from their responsibilities. I think Brazuca you need to re-think your attitude, it is not compassionate, and you are becoming a lawyer of the absurd. Sorry to say that , but I think you need to get a grip!

You could say the same of race -- that people blame "race" to excuse themselves from their responsibilities. This just gives ammunition to people like Ric and other eugenicists: "the genes made me do it".

Ascribing behaviour to culture actually assumes more responsibility, because culture can be changed. And implicit in the charge is that the people involved ought to change their culture. Race, on the other hand, can't be changed, so that if behaviour can be ascribed to race and genes (as Ric et al. would have it), then the people involved are not responsible for their behaviour, since they have no control over the genes that are pulling the levers of their behaviour. If this is the case, then there is no solution. Except for the final solution.

Simple way to solve this is to ask yourself a question- Are you saying that middle class values are good for everyone? Yeah, let's talk about those values: mamma and pappa pay for patricinho to live at home until what age? What about work? Usually, patricinhos/nhas have a maid paid slave wages and live in "barracos". My family has a maid, but they build a house for her, her kids have access to private health care and vacation time. I bet this is not the case around "most middle class valued". Who is to say that "the values" you so like to talk about are worthy of any cause? I would rather value education, equal opportunity, dignity-which blacks, morenos, mulatos in Brazil do not get. I disagree with you and will continue to disagree. Brazil has serious racial issues, unless we talk about it in a civilized way, then we are all wasting out time.


By speaking of middle-class values I was alluding to, say, the necessary continence and temperence required for a guy to commit to the one women sexually for life within marriage, so that the children resulting can be raised in a secure, nuclear-family environment. Right there you've ticked the boxes off for responsibility, self-control, future orientation and so on. These have implications for many things and aspects of life. Valuing education is just an outworking of this, as well as the other fruits of these values. It's just that a society has been able to create and sustain a middle class when these values/virtues are present. When these values/virtues are lost, the middle class will disappear, because it is such cultural values/virtues that create and sustain it.

This is the most absurd opinion, but it is yours not mine. I see the lack of opportunity, lack of education and lack of social justice. If given a chance, a black child and a white child will strive for the same things: happiness, a job, a safe home, maybe a family.

No, they will not necessary strive for the same things. It depends on the cultural values that have shaped them. If the child has grown up never knowing his father, it is unlikely that he will have much conception of a "happy family" to strive for.

When a boy hits puberty, his testosterone shoots up from roughly being three times that of a female to a whopping 10-15 times that of a female. That boy needs to have a very good reason to keep that bubbling testosterone in check. If he lives in a culture where continence and temperence and marital fidelity is the norm, then he will be more obliged to keep his urges in check and, employing the principle of delayed gratification by waiting till he's married to get some. If he doesn't come from such a "Victorian" culture, then he will let rip; leaving the inevitable train of emotionally distraught girls in his wake. Coming from such a culture, he is unlikely to have seen his father responding in a responsible manner -- perhaps never having bothered to marry his mother, provide for the kids, or indeed even stick around.

Happiness for one boy may mean satisfying his immediate urges; whereas for the other boy it may mean satisfying his objectives, which may mean doing the necessary school work in order to acquire the desired home in a desired neighbourhood in order, in turn, to raise the next generation in a secure and salubrious environment.

If you think that portraying blacks as maids is painting the reality, then you belong to the class of those who think novelas are portraying a reality. There are very few novelas, such as Escrava Isaura, that are in the category of novelas that educate and portray the real condition of slaves during the early/late 1800s. However, what we have now is a nothing close to the reality of those who watch it.

If portraying "blacks" as maids isn't the reality, then why is everybody complaining that "blacks" in Brazil are generally poor? Presumably maids are poor, right? So it follows that if "blacks" are poor, then it is realistic to have a "black" more often portrayed as a maid than not in a telenovela that trys to portray the upper-class lifestyle. Since most telenovelas portray an upper-class lifestyle, it is not realistic for them to cast "blacks" in the protagonists' roles.

Now, where telenoveals choose to specifically portray lives in the favelas, then they will obviously feature casts that are darker-skinned, to reflect the reality in the favelas. Take Cidade dos Homens. Darker-skinned Brazilians feature much more prominently than in, say, Paraiso Tropical. Both telenovalas are reasonably realistic in what they try to portray. And I don't see how it has anything to do with racism.

I used to live in England, and can say with confidence that the (some)British people and media do not like the Williams sisters. They adore Anna Kournikova and Maria Sharapova. Why? Because they are beautiful, white, and blonde. Neither can be said to be excellent tennis players. In my opinion,the Williams sister are top star and have been mistreated by fellow tennis player Martina Hingis.

I have an admission to make. When I support a female tennis player, it is based on her looks. If I walk past a TV with the tennis going on, I'll stop to see how the relevant girl looks to see whom I'll barack for. I no longer have the time to watch a whole game of tennis, so I don't do this all that often, but that's the basis of my decision.

And let's face it. Anna Kournikova and Maria Sharapova are good looking. Looks will always matter when it comes to women, and when it can be combined with sporting skills, then all the better. While Kournukova had mainly the looks, Sharapova has the looks and the skills. The Williams sisters quite clearly only have the skills. This is nobody's fault. If Kelly Rowland was good at tennis, then she'd have both the looks and skills.

As to blondes, well, blondes tend to catch the eye more easily. But that doesn't mean that the world only considers a woman to be beautiful if she's blonde. What about Latin America's (and Israel's) inestimably beautiful morenas?! Hey, and there's that Anna Ivanovic who's currently making everybody go ga-ga. She's neither blonde nor "white" but instead a Slavic morena who is probably considered more beautiful than Kournikova or Sharapova. So her example turns your argument on its head.

I think they are a role model for all young girls, specially the African-American girls, white women have plenty of models, due to opportunity. I think their sportsmanship is incredible and I hope more girls out there will have their posters on a wall instead of Paris Hilton and Britney.

What opportunity did the Williams sisters have? None! They grew up in the projects, for goodness sake! So how come they made it? I guess because their daddy just decided it was gonna happen. Having no training in tennis, he decided to teach them tennis and made them into stars. So the example of the Williams sisters turns your argument on its head, since the Williams sisters succeeded in spite of lacking the type of opportunities someone like you would have claimed they would have needed to get to where they are today.

Yes, Pele is an international icon, it took him a lot of hard work. Compare him to Zico, quick rise to fame. Still, it was a lot easier for Zico in his early career than for Pele.
Pele himself has claimed there is no racism in Brazil, saying instead it's a phenomenon associated with countries like the US and South Africa. In an interview included in the book The Brazil Reader, by Robert Levine and John Crocitti, the dialogue (on p.255) is as follows:

Playboy: You also made a polemical statement to a foreign journalist, saying that racial discrimination does not exist in Brazil. Do you confirm saying this or was this another case of being misunderstood?

Pele: I believe that in my field, sports, there is no racial discrimination. I never had problems playing soccer with whites; I attended school with whites and was never discriminated against. I think that in Brazil the problem is social discrimination. This exists in truth, and is a big problem. Racial discrimination exists in the Unites States and in South Africa.

The flat earth comment was childish. Combate ao Racismo was founded by Blacks not whites, therefore if you have an issue, take it with them. Obviously, they must feel ignored, mistreated by the Brazilian society or the other option is that they organizers must suffer from a mental disorder. I think I know what I would rather believe in.

The Flat Earth Society was founded by the flat-earthers, not those nefarious round-earthers. They evidently felt marginilised and ridiculed enough by the round-earthers to set up their own organisation. Therefore their existence is proof positive that the ideas around which the organisation is based must be true. Otherwise the organisation wouldn't exist. The mere existence of such an organisation is all the proof that is needed of the truthfulness of its claims.

I don´t think there is a Flat Earth Society anymore. The guy who ran it died several years ago, he lived in the Antelope Valley. What´s on the web today are spoofs.

John Alexander Dowie, a Scotsman, was the last prominent Flat Earther. He founded Zion Illinois, which was layed out beforehand like Washington DC and Palmas, TO, except in the form of a Union Jack. Just north of Obamaland on the shores of the lake.

One of my closest friends grew up there and was a member of what had been Dowie´s church, at the first (1900) it was the only church in town. Dowie was a faith healer and a Pentecostal, and a convinced Flat-Earther.

Too bad we won´t have guys like that to kick around anymore. Like Nixon said about The Press.

Brazuca is not black I am assuming ,but has also recognized that he has a few "chains" to break of from the holds of the "establishment" himself.

Correct, I am not "black", am not a colour. I am latino. And, yes, I suppose I am in the process of braking the chains place on my mind by the powers that be.

Brazuca,, did you actually say this? We need to talk!

I was referring to breaking the cycle regarding not slavery but inheriting nothing from your forbears. The person I'd said that to had suggested that the reason Brazil's poor are that way is because they inherited no wealth, and neither did their fathers nor their grandfathers.

But what I was pointing out is that many immigrant groups to Brazil came with nothing, thereby starting with nothing. And yet they were able to climb out of this alleged cycle of starting with nothing to reach the middle class and upper-middle class. So the excuse that you can only climb the social ladder is you inherit wealth from your forbears doesn't wash, given how the Brazilians of Japanese, Lebanese, German, etc. descent have been able to start with nothing yet climb out of poverty.

I attempted to post entries here last night from my home computer, but somehow, I was not permitted to proceed... Very strange indeed!
Particularly because I had no problems whatsoever when I posted at its sister site (message to Joao)

Anyhow, I will attempt to keep track of the immense variety of issues being exchanged here and hopefully will not face any further technical issues...

to bad thies days
they are the ones in charge of us all
as every one has just given up on trying to find
the best person for the job .

not the best job for the person
its all based on greed as of now
and i feel it will only change when the masses rise up
and take back in force what we want .

JUST GOOD GOVERMENT FOR THE PEOPLE

not for the money

Milady
What a pleasant surprise to find a representative of the fair sex in such an unruly site. It’s curious, as I was just about thinking about asking Double-Dot, dnbaiacu, and Joao for a possible reason to explain the notable, unfortunate absence of ladies in the “Brazzil” sites I knew – considering the significant influence which Brazilian women have upon all aspects of (using Double-Dot words) the Great Republic – LOL.

Based on the few lines I managed to read here, among so many “loud”, but interesting entries, it appears we are likely to have a few things in common, while as expected, we most certainly differ in others quite drastically…

I share your original Brazilian nationality, and I’m also a resident of the United States of America (although I’ve become an American citizen over a decade). Likewise, I’ve been living the U.S for a significant amount of time, and also from a privilege background and equally delighted for having emigrated. I was surely relieved for having left Rio de Janeiro behind, in light of that horrible heat & humidity 7-8 months of the year (which most other natives seem to enjoy, my sister included), not to mention the extreme danger which befell that beautiful, charming city after I departed.

Unlike you, I’m Mr. Metropolitan Himself! Even before leaving Brazil, as a teenager, I spent as much time in Sao Paulo – my 3rd favorite city in the world – as I possibly could, and have been leaving in Manhattan for several years (too long to mention and not be embarrassed – LOL - it’s not fun getting old); as if this metropolitan exposure were not sufficient, I was further fortunate for having had the opportunity to live in Paris (often visiting lovely London) for about one year. With that said, I could never possibly consider anything like your quiet, peaceful, family the suburban life of Virginia… If your location (in that hot, traditional state) is anything similar to Fairfax, VA - a place I was compelled to visit way too often (for work), and nearly committed suicide with boredom (LOL) – then I know for sure our lives bear much more differences than similarities… - Furthermore, you are a family oriented person, mother of two great children, whereas I never quite left behind a certain “child-like” quality (a BRIT might have called me “old-boy”) to consider assuming the significant responsibilities involved in fatherhood.
Besides, I always knew that I would not have dependents, unless I could afford an Austrian governess to educate my offspring, along with a huge staff to care for everything else, which, unfortunately, is NOT the case - LOL

I look forward to exchanging views of the issues (which so far I’ve managed to avoid, most notably – “race”).
Cheers

Thanks for your messages, welcome and advice.
I’m truly puzzled my the inability to post here from home. I just wonder of a certain Swiss we both know has managed to attack my home computer – LOL. On the other hand, since I can post in the sister “magg” site, I suppose it must be something else.

To dnbaiacu
Do NOT get me started on that horrible subject – LOL
As you correctly stated, we are just not going to agree on that subject – Period / Point Finale / Punk / Ponto Final. 
Yet, I must state that your ability to combine factual (and likely) issues I hold dear with traditional biblical allegory simply astound and entertain me to extreme (most notably, your fascinating analogy of Angels versus visiting aliens, which I had always made – as well as the Greek & Nordic gods “toying” with humans in the past as being a clear indication of the “only way” aliens could possibly having been perceived in Earths’ past. We shall surely go over this later again (I will eventually explain what seems to have puzzled you – the passage of a meteorite hitting a planetoid… LOL. I did not forget, I’m not avoiding you – just lack the time at the moment)

Double-Dot
You have ignored me altogether, as such, I will just express my sincere disappointment with your conduct – LOL. That’s not they way a “vassal” behaved in the Middle Ages is it – Let me remind you of the definition thereof: “somebody who gave loyalty and homage to a feudal lord and received the right to occupy the lord's land and be protected by him” LOL

All
(I’ve still managed to avoid the scary topic of “race” - but not for long)

Can be found at www.santaanita.com.

I would never ever do it, my lad.

I kinda figured that. I never "did" explain my blogger name.
I hope you are well

Speaking of following dn, you know that when one has some desperate need / craving / thirst for something that the human mind will many times deceive and lead one along a course or path that "logic" and or what one "knows" one knows to be truth or fact. You're there bud whether it be by design intelligent or otherwise.

Yes! I am admittedly all that and then some. I want to live. I want to be free. I want to survive. And live life as it was Intellilgently Design to be lived.
Chaos is coming from the ET's. And I hope I am alive to see them GONE!

Ascribing behaviour to culture actually assumes more responsibility, because culture can be changed. And implicit in the charge is that the people involved ought to change their culture.

On point man.. YOU GO!

(I will eventually explain what seems to have puzzled you – the passage of a meteorite hitting a planetoid… LOL. I did not forget, I’m not avoiding you – just lack the time at the moment)

I am looking forward to this. Are you possibly speaking of the "meteor"(s)? that struck Earth, eliminating Dinosaurs for "obvious" very. Sounds "com proposito" to me.
We will see what you have to say later.

Yet, I must state that your ability to combine factual (and likely) issues I hold dear with traditional biblical allegory simply astound and entertain me to extreme (most notably, your fascinating analogy of Angels versus visiting aliens, which I had always made – as well as the Greek & Nordic gods “toying” with humans in the past as being a clear indication of the “only way” aliens could possibly having been perceived in Earths’ past. We shall surely go over this later again

It all fits Augustus. And fascinating it is. The biggest story in Hollywood, the "Battle between Good and Evil" is OURS. We are just fed it so much it appears like FICTION. The perfect deception. And Disneys "living happily ever after" is just our yearning to be in paradise. The truth is within us. It's just we need much prodding to believe it.

Clearly the inescapable, predominant discussions being held in this blog are dominated, understandably, by the serious issues of “race”, the historical impact of it slavery and racial segregation in the "Past", along with its impact on current racial relations not only in Brazil, but also in comparison with the United States and its relevance in view of the candidacy of Senator Obama for the presidency of the United States. These are significant and extremely complex topics which could fill several volumes, perhaps as extensive and the original Encyclopedia Britannica… Yet, I shall attempt, as briefly as I can to convey my general views on the (dangerous) subject, thereby exposing myself to the “courteous” criticisms (most likely a severe onslaught), I have no doubt, of some of the members of the wider audience, with most of whom I’m unfamiliar.

Firstly, race for the sake of its origins alone, with the knowledge we have today, would perhaps have not generated nearly as many issues, if, in a completely hypothetical scenario (please indulge me), the various racial groups, which evolved in different regions adapting to the best conditions in their environments. Such evolution, of course, occurred gradually, across millions of years, every since our ultimate ancestor were compelled to descent from the trees and stand up-right, (the famous “Lucy” of 3 million years ago), which resulted in the final evolution of the homo-sapiens, who eventually migrated from Africa, to populate the rest of the planet during the past 150,000 years. With that said, it is unquestionable, that we are totally the same (except for some pigments on the skin or the shape of the eye lids), and therefore, physical differences as the basis or discrimination (or, racism), is completely illogical – yet, most of us (I hope) are aware, and are likely to agree with this premise.

Unfortunately, because of these differences, as groups of different races started meeting, these difference inevitably led to racism, in view of more primitive levels of social, technological, economic development, as well as sharp distinction in religions / mythologies, etc… Bearing in mind that the institution of slavery was developed by humanity way before such racial distinctions emerged, one can hardly blame such institution on the development of Racism. In fact, the white Europeans, started slave trade from Africa via the Atlantic much after the Arabs started the traffic of human beings from East Africa across Red Sea or into the Persian Gulf. As such African slaves appeared in Bagdad or other Arab major cities before they appeared in Brazil or the Caribbean Islands. The reason, this is so important, is because at the time this horrific traffic began, the issue at hand was NOT considered a morally questionable issue, even though some rare scholars and/or enlighten individuals, justly and very privately objected to the tragic trade. Given that the overwhelming majority of the populations (in both Europe & the Middle East) was utterly poor and thoroughly ignorant – dominated by repressive faiths / religious institutions that served the interest of the might Lords – there was no way, no basis, no point of reference, no example for either the population at large, nor its Lords and Rules to condemn this horrific situation, as it unfolded before their eyes.

As such, the first part of my thoughts will end with the premise that I consider utterly incorrect and unjust, to judge our ancestors form the rigid prism (even if righteous) of the advanced, modern society of the early 21st Century.

(This is just the first part, I have not yet touched Brazil, US and Obama - I will get there eventually - no time now...)

Be sure to wake me up when you do.

Augustus views of Race & its Historical relation (more to follow)

Lord, I am in utter disbelief that, in spite of my strong misgivings, you are leading the "Charge of the Light Brigade III" and forewarning our adversaries by saying "More to follow"

Have you forgotten that "Forewarned is Forearmed" ?

Be sure to wake me up when you do.

Hilarious-please do send me an e-mail when you finish the second part...so far so good!

As such, the first part of my thoughts will end with the premise that I consider utterly incorrect and unjust, to judge our ancestors form the rigid prism (even if righteous) of the advanced, modern society of the early 21st Century

so should we be judged by there actions or learn from them !!
like the racsium isue every one call the US the worst slave state in the world !!!
i would like to point out that the total ammount of slaves in the US was 600.000 total from the first to the day they were set free.
that the US went to war over it and only after that did other countries start to end slavery

and then again how about all the keorens , during WW2 that japan used .
also all the eastern eurpeans germany used along with the captured military personal all slaves in one from or another

Hey RIC, get my boots… Yawn! This is getting boring…

Costa

Sao Paulo, Brazil -- As many of you know, the police have consistently proven not to be friends of myself and other people of African descent in the United States. Here, in Brazil, there is no difference. After a great night of hip hop and conversing with different people entrenched in the movimiento de Negro(Black Movement), two friends and I started our long journey back to the house where we are staying, appropriately named Quilombo. Now, if any of you are familiar with the history of Black resistance in Brazil, you have heard of enslaved Africans seeking freedom and creating independent settlements, or Quilombos. Today, although there are few quilombos constructed in the mold of the quilombos of the past, the conditions that created quilombos then still exist now. Case in point, Sao Paulo, Brazil on this gloomy night.

After discovering that he had forgotten his key, my friend repeatedly called the quilombo in hopes that one of our amigos would be up and buzz us up. Unfortunately, at five in the morning there was no one awake and we waited for close to an hour before we heard the door open. Full of excitement that I would finally have a chance to dormir (sleep), I rushed to the door from the side to meet my other friends who were already in front of the door. Apparently this scared the hell out of the muler preto (black woman) who spoke in rapido (fast) Portuguese before closing the door in my face. Visibly frightened, she then proceeded to run to another resident, a homem branco(white man) before coming back out of the door with the man some 20 minutes later. Because I speak pouco(little) portugese, all I could comprehend was her angry stare towards me and point of the finger. My friend later told me that he was talking to her about how she was being racist towards a more african cultured Preto(black) to which she replied, "there is no racism here in Brazil."

Shortly after, two police cars rolled up with their lights on and although I am not fluent in Portuguese, I have a good interpretation of the universal language of a gun. I was forced to put my hands up against a wall where I was subsequently searched/groped and treated like the criminal Black people are universally viewed as. Astoundingly, I actually got off pretty easy by comparison. Just a few days before I was informed that in one favela in west Sao Paulo, six blacks were killed by police in one night. Apparently, this is a constant occurrence, but one that the media fails to acknowledge during their morning news reports. The interesting thing is that the two black men were searched, while the female of different ethnicity was saved the humiliation of having her space invaded. Although this is something that I have become familiar with wherever I travel, it is something I will never accept as right and am intent on resisting until we see a rapid rotation in the way of the world. From the States to Sao Paulo, not much changes. As always,Stay young in spirit, old in soul, and Rebel !!!

Yoreb Ku Ba www.siliconvalleydebug.com

Can I get in your next bubble bath?

Luv

Costa

… the first part of my thoughts will end with the premise that I consider utterly incorrect and unjust, ( to judge our ancestors form the rigid prism (even if righteous) of the advanced, modern society of the early 21st Century )) … WHAT THE F.U.C.K. WAS THAT???


so should we be judged by there actions or learn from them !! …..HUH?


like the ( racsium issue ) every one call the US the worst slave state in the world !!!

( i ) would like to point out that the total ( amount ) of slaves in the US was 600.000 total from the first to the day they were set free.
( that ) the US went to war over it and only after that did other countries start to end slavery … YOU ALSO HAVE A BAD GRAMMA!


and then again how about all the ( keorens ) , during WW2 that japan used .
also all the eastern ( eurpeans germany ) used along with the captured military personal all slaves in one from or another
... YOUR GEOGRAPHY AINT SHARP EITHER!


Back to English 101 Refresher for you, Bozo!

Your Costa

Hehehe

Brazuca,

I know what you are trying to say by mentioning that race in US in Brazil are different. Yes, in a shantytown in Brazil there are blacks and whites side by side, and race is not an issue, but when it does come to the higher powers, big corporations or institutions color of skin in Brazil does make a difference.

I was not called Negão in Brazil, I was called negro filho de uma p**a. I got stuck at bank doors, I have my sister being called Monkey when she was working at a cashier at a supermarket.

I think Shelly knows what I am talking about, we try to pretend that there is not a racial issue in Brazil, my answer yes there is, a black man will not be attacked as long as he remains a black man in the ghetto, try to get a job that people consider good, and people will say, here comes o negro metido, like if I were white, that would make a difference.

I do not like the fact that people like Ric preach this racial superiority, which I think he does to infuriate people, and there has been lots of progress being accomplished day by day, but it is not enough yet.

I remember leaving a corporate environment in Brazil and having people saying, how come did a black man got a visa to enter the United States?
Who do you think is racist? Brazil, US, or both of the alternatives.

I think the bottom line is, we have people who believe that they are superior, making all of us hate each other, while the ones who have condition to change that, midia, tv, magazines, politicians do not give a damn. You are right , who needs hatred? but as long as these bad pictures keep on existing, these mechanism will eternally affect us.

I am glad you can understand some of the stuff I went through as well as Shelly, not trying to play the victm card, just giving some food for thought. take care guys!

Sorry to hear about your problems… The truth is that nobody will know your pain unless they walk in the same shoes.

As much as I love Brasil but discrimination exists here, not as open as elsewhere, but the same. As you mentioned, in the social ladder the higher the whiter. However, it is public policy (in society) and in the public domain (the media), that racism is not only illegal but unacceptable in Brasil. As Brasil grows so will the public demand for change.

I still believe that race-wise, you are better off in Brasil then in the United States where they really are obsessed with religion among other things.

Costa

I Bet You Have Seen More Ceilings Than Michelangelo… Viadão!

Hehehe

Costa

Dbuble-Dot
Isn't the previous subject-matter the main topic of this realm?
Shouldn't one count on one's always loyal, but often exceedingly cautions Knight to reinforce and/or succor?

Yet, I shall always remain thankful for your words of wisdom...

obsessed with religion among other things.

Should Have Been:

obsessed with race among other things.

Costa

Firstly, I did meteorite. It was indeed the specific word I intended to use (a piece of rock that has reached Earth from outer space) as opposed to “meteor” (a mass of rock from space that BURNS up after entering the Earth's atmosphere).
Now that we have this clarified, while the particular meteorite which reached the Earth circa 65 million years ago, destroyed most large reptiles and, thereby indirectly triggered the mammals to get out of their hiding places, and evolve into various higher creatures, which led to us – LOL), my example intended for the blogger “A Brazilian” was thoroughly general – I was literarily taking a “theoretical case of ANY of meteorites which may hit (and have done so several times to many planets and satellites in our solar system ( since there are quadrillions of such “space rocks” out there in the asteroid belt, in the Kuiper Belt - orbiting the Sun in the region of Pluto- or even in the Oort Cloud – which is the farthest known place in our solar system, about 1 light year away, and the source of most comets).

Anyway, now that the Science / Astronomy lesson has been concluded – LOL – I will explain what I intended to describe:
I was referring to any such meteorites out there, and because there are tons of them they inevitably crash against one another; because of such crash, the original rout each of these meteorites was following, is inevitably altered and both (or whatever survives from each one of them) goes in a direction completely different from the original one. With that said. Suppose you had a meteorite going towards, let’s say Mercury, and just a few thousand miles away, such meteorite is hit by another, most likely Mercury will be spared of that particular hit which WOULD HAVE taken place in the (random) case where the OTHER meteorite had not hit its intended “invader’’…

You see, when our solar system was very young, the region of space where today we find Mercury, Venus, the Earth, and Mars (just 4 rocky planets in comfortable orbits away from one another) was a much busier place. Scientists are nearly positive that there were at least 8 or 9 planets in that region (circa 4.5 billion years ago). In addition, there were many more meteorites flying around, hitting the planets (as well as one another), and this picture, pretty much exemplifies my chaotic view of the Universe, which, incidentally, is pretty much part of the currently establish “scientific thought”.

I truly hope I made it clear now

Yet, I shall always remain thankful for your words of wisdom...

Thank you my Lord. Now that you are committed to go into the battle with your war cry "More to come", I urge you to go ahead. "Full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes" (quoting some obscure Limey Admiral). Take no prisoners, though.

I am confident that every single commentator in this thread, including our Comrades-in-Arm Dnbaiacu, Simpleton, Ric, Forrest, etc; are awaiting your further move, in spite of their alleged indifference.

I apologize for interfering in a in your correction to your very own statement, and further express regret for interfering on a conversation of which I’m not a party and the details of which, I’m not even aware…
Yet, although you may have originally intended to write “obsessed with race among other things” – under your original comment - instead of “obsessed with religion among other things”, I suspect you actually committed what one generally calls a “Freudian Slip” - an error in speech, memory, or physical action that is believed to be caused by the unconscious mind (recently this expression has came to denote “any slip-of-the-tongue phenomenon”, which could be “humorously imply” hidden or sub-conscious motives to the speaker – in this case “the typist” – LOL)

Well… FINALLY my point (I know – I do “go on…): since I’ve a resident of the United States for a very long time, I’m constantly reminded of the obsession of Americans towards religion, especially outside New York City, Chicago, Los Angeles & San Francisco, and particularly the huge central area ranging from Southeastern Pennsylvania, out the way to the “border” of Arizona with Southern California – which comprises most of the country, with the possible exception of a few pockets here and there.

Consequently, while I must agree that your intended remark is also NOT incorrect (since “a sizeable” majority of Americans tend to be racists, and, by some “weird coincidence” in the same geographical zone I described above), their obsession towards religion is way too overwhelming and exceedingly surprising! One would not have expected such an anomaly from an advanced, developed Western nation…

I just could NOT avoid commenting, as your “correction” jumped from the “cyber” page – LOL. Once again, my apologies!
Cheers

I think I understand exactly what you are trying to say. As I said, I don't need to be black in order to understand what you and other blacks go through in Brazil and in the US. A comment from Costa:

I still believe that race-wise, you are better off in Brasil then in the United States where they really are obsessed with religion among other things.

I have to say, we do disagree on a lot of issues here, but at least I see that we have a common denominator. However, I believe that you cannot compare racism being bad here or there, it is inhumane whether is practiced "in your face", in the case of the US, or "not so", as it happens in Brazil.

You cannot be half racist. An ounce makes you racist. In my opinion, to call someone negao, nego metido is discrimination. Have you asked a black person if they like it?

As I said before, and I won't say it again-this is getting boring, racism can be stopped, it begins at home, at work, within the individual. We should appreciate other cultures and learn from them. We all have something to give to this world.

Forrest Allen
Absolutely not! The unforgiveable mistreatment of Koreas by the Japanese, as well as the equally criminal treatment of Jews and Slavic groups by Nazi Germany, were despicable acts NOT included in the time period for which my concluding paragraph intended to refer!
Likewise, I did not refer to the horrors done in the 1990’s in Bosnia & Burundi, where even worse cases of modern genocide took place.

My concluding paragraph indicated that I considered utterly incorrect and unjust, TO JUDGE OUR ANCESTORS form the rigid prism (even if righteous) of the advanced, MODERN SOCIETY of the early 21st Century. Since you misunderstood my point so drastically, I should have also included the entire 20th and even latter portion of the 19th centuries.

You see, I was making specific reference to the Slave traffic conducted by Europeans and Arabs at a very early age, when the modern, accepted consensus (and even laws) regarding the treatment of other human beings (not to mention the very definition of the word “human beings) did NOT YET exist. Of course what these groups have done to the Africans, from about the 1600’s through the very early 1800’s was unforgiveable. If you were obsessed with Western history as I am (LOL), you would see that the turn of the Nineteenth Century (1799-1801), when the Western World started reaching a mature, civilized morality (the very basis of our own today), based upon the tremendous amount scientific, and socio-political development of the time, many groups emerged to speak out against those vile acts, and strenuously labored to put an end to that despicable horror.
Such groups of wise men and women – most notably in the United Kingdom, but there were many also in the United States, France and even Brazil – started with petitions, pamphlets then organized unannounced tours in to the Horrific Slave ships docked in English ports and gradually raised the awareness of people (many more now with sufficient knowledge and education to grasp such concepts). Such efforts culminated in the act of the British Parliament – around 1807 (or was it 1806?) which formally made slave traffic illegal. Of course that was only the beginning and traffic continued, as you know, way into the 1840’s or 50’s (but concealed from the British Royal navy which started monitoring the Atlantic Ocean against such horrific activity.

In essence, my statement was meant to the early times when people did NOT have the moral basis to know better, letter alone any legal authority to tell them otherwise – also taking into account the most were illiterate, and the few who were not, held incorrect notions about the concepts or definitions behind the word “men” or “mankind”.

I hope I have clarified.

Dear friend.
Isnt' the main subject matter here (from which I have audaciosly digressed under some entries) based on race and race relations?
They are all talking about it! Why should I (of all peeople- lol) in fact, why shouldn't YOU?
Cheers

I was surely relieved for having left Rio de Janeiro

I am also a Carioca! I also lived in NY-Queens, and loved it!

I cannot live in D.C.-Schools are notoriously bad, but once kids are out of the house, we'll think maybe San Diego, San Francisco or NY.

I opted for the "boring" lifestyle because of the kids- I hate "Wisteria Lane"!

Can I get in your next bubble bath?

Only if you promise not to fart, I bet you like playing with your rubber duckie! "Quack-quack".

and this picture, pretty much exemplifies my chaotic view of the Universe, which, incidentally, is pretty much part of the currently establish “scientific thought”.

Chaos is what you don't understand and you can't prove anything by not knowing it, this is not scientific.

Your example was very unfortunate. Energies in the universe can be calculated, observed and have its behavior predicted, meteor trajectories can be calculated, etc.

There's no chaos, there's only logic.

I am also a Carioca! I also lived in NY-Queens, and loved it!

I cannot live in D.C.-Schools are notoriously bad, but once kids are out of the house, we'll think maybe San Diego, San Francisco or NY.

I opted for the "boring" lifestyle because of the kids- I hate "Wisteria Lane"!

Lady, it does not matter if you are a Carioca or what cities you prefer to live in or your lifestyle.Please let the Gentleman express his opinion unhindered. We hardly get to blog with a Brazilian scholar of his caliber.

Thank you.

Meet Abe a Normal Brasilian. Glass tower type from sul. Chaotic logic with reading comprehension or vision issues (can't see, consider contemplate and debate anything that's not precisely on heshes way of thinking but will chime in to defend Costa - they tend to post in pairs so watch out).

I think Shelly knows what I am talking about, we try to pretend that there is not a racial issue in Brazil, my answer yes there is

There's a fundamental flaw in your logic. Racism means different things to different people.

When you say there is racism here, you are agreeing with the sick society the US has.

In the US it is practically a way of life for many. Their lives and livelihoods depend on it. They build entire careers around it and transformed "affirmative action" in a business, a cow they will forever milk. They define themselves and everything they do, think and say based on it. They justify their problems with it. They limit their social interactions based on how someone look. And so on.

It's retarted.

No, we don't have racism in Brazil. All the anecdotes told around here don't prove anything about racism, in the best of the cases, considering that they are truthful, it tells only about one individual's racism, but not the society.

Another thing, if you dress yourself like a clown you will be treated like a clown. The idiot that posted the story about a hip hop idiot being stopped by the police deserved it. Rock'n roll fans are assumed to use drugs, even if they don't, only because they listen to rock'n roll and dress differently. WTF!

The recent idea that racism exists in Brazil is ideologically motivated. The same people that have such views are usually connected to leftist or communist parties, they have this "evil capitalists vs. proletariat" view which they apply for all cases, etc. It's ideology, not reality.

While your polite countenance and eloquent prose is exceedingly admired and appreciated, I beg to differ...

All opinions matter (except, perhaps, those of some “unmentionable Swiss rascals), specially those express by ladies, and practically from Shelly1.

Because I am hardly a Scholar, lacking the necessary credentials for such claim, I simply enjoy the discussion of particular issues and topics, and recognize the proclivity of overdoing it rather frequently…

Cheers

You should learn about the "revolutionary" modus operandi. Many of the political elite plus the "intellectuals" in Brazil, and apparently in the US as well, aren't shy about lying if it is for the "cause". That's called revolutionary lie, and that's what leftists do all the time.

The reality of the Brazilian society is the least of their concerns, because they believe all is relative. All you have to do is to convince the most part about something you want and then it becomes "truth".

What they have is a project for seizing power and imposing their will upon those that resist, nothing more. This racism talk is just one of the tools used to control people.

I do understand your preference for the suburbs, where sheltering and educating children is far better, and perhaps also more appropriate.

Finding that you are also Carioca, may I ask in what part of Rio you lived?

It's a magnificent city, and far too lovely for words... it's just lamentable it is so hot (far too often) and way to dangerous nowadays...


How long ago did you live in NYC?
Too many queries
Cheers

They = the current party in power plus all the parties and terrorist organizations affiliated to the "Foro de São Paulo" plus international racist movements.

Naturally one can track meterites in a relatively stabled, fully developed solar sistem such as ours TODAY.

I would sincerely like to see you attempting to track all the meteriorites "zooming" around, zillions of them, a few billion years ago... Or even today, at the asteoid belt....

Do you really want an socialist system that doesn't work? If you do the US will gladly give you our Barack. You won't need your own.

All opinions matter (except, perhaps, those of some “unmentionable Swiss rascals), specially those express by ladies, and practically from Shelly1.

What relevance do her opinions about her lifestyle or which city in Brazil she was born have to this topic under discussion? You don't have to be too chivalrous.

Because I am hardly a Scholar, lacking the necessary credentials for such claim, I simply enjoy the discussion of particular issues and topics, and recognize the proclivity of overdoing it rather frequently…

Don´t be too modest, mate. You are doing a wonderful job.

Now get on with the second part of your essay. I don't have much time to waste listening to people who go deviating from the main topic, talking about their lifestyles, children and other similar banal issues.

My family is from Barra da Tijuca and I lived in Queens for about a year, but it was 9 years ago. I have lived here for 10 and lived in England too.

Yes I miss Rio, the walk down the beach, don't miss the heat. As a child, I used to surf after school (Bodyboarding).

Why should we keep talking about prejudice and racism–aren't they on the way out? Hasn't there been so much change in society already?
Racists are not necessarily prejudiced.

It would be nice if prejudice and racism were on the decline. But it doesn't seem to be that way. A 1990 study found that a majority of Whites rated African Americans and Hispanics as less intelligent than themselves. A majority of Whites also thought African Americans and Hispanics are prone to violence and would rather be on welfare than work. These attitudes are not harmless. These prejudices not only are the basis for individual acts of discrimination, but they also allow people to justify unfair and destructive institutional and corporate practices.

Racism is racial prejudice that has been incorporated into the activities and procedures of major institutions, corporations, social systems (such as those related to housing, education, and health), and other arenas of major social activity (such as politics, the media, finance, and banking). Racism serves both to discriminate against ethnic minorities and to maintain advantages and benefits for White Americans.

Taking the American out, we have racism in Brazil, you can deny but the reality speaks for itself. Black sheep has give several example, so has Forest, and the Sao Paulo tourist. Those in denial, can continue to be, I will continue to disagree

Although I am a Brazilian living in the US and I will vote for Obama, I do not believe that he will make to the White House, unfortunately.

However, I do not believe that in Brazil we should vote for a black (or brown) president just because that is some fair game of a sort. That is ridiculous! The candidate should (careful here) prove his or hers value regardless of the racial background.

Someone mentioned that our Novelas do not represent the Brazilian people racially. That is also ridiculous. Why should a TV network make a mix of race to represent the population so some foreigners would not be shocked? However, they do have some black actors.

Brazil does contain a large population of European descendants. Some foreigners consider white only those with a very light skin which is anthropologically a faulty assumption. There are many Americans I know that consider themselves white but their skin colors are kind of dark. And they tell me that they have English blood. That could be since the Romans occupied the British Island for centuries and I believe those roman soldiers with Mediterranean blood would not be so well behaved with the local girls. It must also for many other reasons, including the fact that they try to hide their true racial identity. My son's girlfriend, an American lady of German and English descendants, is darker than my Brazilian son.

Brazil received a huge immigration of Italians, for example, and if you open a phone book from Rio, Sao Paulo, Belo Horizonte and other southern cities you will notice that our population carries a very large representation of Italians names. The same for the Germans, etc.

Our TV Networks should use actors (including two cousins of mine who work for Globo) because they are talented not because they represent an racial group.

So, when a network have to interview Brazilian scientists (or economists, etc), for example, should the reporters then make sure that the scientists are brown skin because the foreigner would think that Brazil misrepresents the dark skin people and so on? Ridiculous!

I know a lot of Brazilians in the USA. Some are very dark and some are very white with blue eyes and blond hair and some others something between.

I do not care whether or not Mr. Cardoso is a black descendant but his features do not show that so clearly, as mentioned by John in his article. John could be a traveler but he is then either a bad observer or he lacks knowledge of the European racial background.

The Portuguese people are a strong mix of people: Moors, Arabs, Jews, Celts, Nordics, Romans, Greeks, French, etc. Italians are also a huge mix of people from the Mediterranean area, Nordics (invasions), Greeks, possibly black slaves, possibly Persians slaves, Jews, etc. Brazil received immigration from dark and light skin Europeans from, mainly, Italy, Portugal, Germany, Poland, etc, that mixed with blacks, Indians, Arabs and Japanese but not all Brazilians are mixed racially but they are are almost well distributed geographically in the Southwest of Brazil.

We should have a presidential candidate like Obama in the future, some day. Who knows?

Taking the American out, we have racism in Brazil, you can deny but the reality speaks for itself.

This doesn't make any sense. What the American dysfunctional society has to do with Brazil?

Look at the predominant culture in Brazil and tell us that that has nothing to do on how well people do in life. Some obviously prefer partying and sex, think that Carnaval and promiscuity are "culture" (and they are proud of it) and expect for the government to fix everything for them.

What we need are good values.

There's a fundamental flaw in your logic. Racism means different things to different people.

When you say there is racism here, you are agreeing with the sick society the US has.

In the US it is practically a way of life for many. Their lives and livelihoods depend on it. They build entire careers around it and transformed "affirmative action" in a business, a cow they will forever milk. They define themselves and everything they do, think and say based on it. They justify their problems with it. They limit their social interactions based on how someone look. And so on.

It's retarted.

No, we don't have racism in Brazil. All the anecdotes told around here don't prove anything about racism, in the best of the cases, considering that they are truthful, it tells only about one individual's racism, but not the society.

Another thing, if you dress yourself like a clown you will be treated like a clown. The idiot that posted the story about a hip hop idiot being stopped by the police deserved it. Rock'n roll fans are assumed to use drugs, even if they don't, only because they listen to rock'n roll and dress differently. WTF!

The recent idea that racism exists in Brazil is ideologically motivated. The same people that have such views are usually connected to leftist or communist parties, they have this "evil capitalists vs. proletariat" view which they apply for all cases, etc. It's ideology, not reality.

That is the most succinct, apposite synopsis of all this nonsense we're having to deal with. Brilliantly said, analysed -- demolished. A Brazilian is an astute, perspicacious person. Especially about that hip-hop idiot wondering why he's attracting the attention of the police at 4am in the morning! God help us that people take such idiots seriously. A Brazilian, thank you for your existence.

I'll reply to the mounting posts I'm meant to respond to, including cu fededo's important contribution. And I'm also thinking of taking on this Augustus fellow, even though that will mean taking on more than I have time to. It should be pretty easy to destroy his position. He has his feet firmly planted in mid-air!

Brazuca
Before any other comment, I would to state that your previous reply (addressed to “A Brazilian”) is simply the best written mini-essay I have read since I started browsing some of the various “Brazzil sites. Your thoughts are concise and well developed, the structure is nearly perfect, and your views are well explained, and described in orderly fashion.

In connection with its contents, I strongly agree with your opinion regarding racism in America, a country I know so well. The example you provided vis-à-vis “affirmative action” – which has been deeply ingrained in this country’s socio-political structure for many decades – while considered by many and an example of America’s ability to overcome racism, I agree that it represents rather a clear indication of that racism continues alive and well in the United States; so much so that is now perfectly “managed” by well established rules and regulations from Washington – Brazuca, this excellent example was brilliantly indentified and displayed!

If I were to express any objection to what you have written, it would be rather represent a minor “enhanced observation” as opposed to “an opposed view”; as I would like simply to disagree “in degree” (as opposed to “in kind”); I’m referring to your belief that there is no racism in Brazil. In my modest opinion, I partially disagree to that line of thought because I suspect that the racism still exists in the Brazilian society and culture, BUT it is so deeply ingrained as to be hardly perceived as such… In fact, the issue should perhaps be addressed along a distinct, but slightly related line by acknowledging the existence of a significant “class consciousness” (as opposed to “racist”) in Brazil. As a clear example of such disposition is the existence of “social” and “services” elevators in nearly every residential building in Rio de Janeiro (and many in Sao Paulo), bearing in mind that these “service” vehicles were not designed solely for transporting goods, furniture or special materials, but rather for housemaids and/or building employees. As such, I feel that one should rather ascribe to the strong class consciousness among Brazilians, particularly those from the higher strata, many of the characteristics, which are often perceived as a racist attitude among Brazilians...

In order to conclude this observation, I would like to take the opportunity to emphasize that I have just stated above, in connection with my views of Class attitude vis-à-vis Racism in Brazil, precisely what I intended to develop in the unwritten “Part-2” of my previous thoughts on race. I feel that this extremely important issue - which is the main theme under consideration at this "site" - should be left under the good care of the much more qualified, well read, eloquent individual called Brazuca, especially in light of the clear antagonism I somehow appear to have instilled among some “mystery” participants of this blog…

Finally, a few words for Brazuca: I wish I had paid attention to your writings earlier – it was indeed an error which shall not be repeated. Furthermore, in light of my previous paragraph, I see no need for you “bother” considering “taking this Augustus”, as I no longer intend to purse an “active role” here or anywhere else in the “Brazzil mini-Universe.” Rather I shall be satisfied to remain as a mere “behind the scenes spectator”, providing a few words “here & there” in connection with occasional issues which may “jump to my attention from the cyber-page” thereby requiring or compelling a more direct participation.

Cheers and farewell

Glad to see you are back in literary form. I thoroughly enjoyed your recent piece on Brazzil about "Where is Brazil's Obama?" Yes, indeed, in a country that boasts somewhere around 60-70% mixed and/or black-Indian blood, why aren't more mixed races represented on magazine covers, TV shows, telenovelas, Sunday news programs, etc., etc.? When will the government (and the voting public) recognize that there are quality candidates (and god-awful ones, too) in all races? Your comparisons of American standards vis-a-vis this hot-button issue in Brazil is a valid one as well, and I do agree that we here take too many things at face value, so to speak, especially re: race. It's never as simple, or as black-and-white, as it is so often wrongly portrayed. For this, I am glad that Obama is the Democratic candidate. It's not often we can admire and look up to an intelligent, well-spoken and "with-it" presidential candidate, who isn't a Bill Clinton or Al Gore clone but his own man.

The good news is that over the past few years, I have seen more and more Asian, Vietnamese, black, multicultured and even Pakistani, Indian (from India) and Iranian (CNN's Christiane Amanpour, for example) newscasters in many important and visible capacities. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN's science and medical expert, is another good example of a knowledgeable "foreign-sounding" and/or "foreign-looking" TV personality with ability and clout as well as charisma.

I personally think Brazil has serious issues with homophobia -- big time issues!!! At least here, gays (whether one agrees with their lifestyle or not) have finally gotten their due in the media and in print. Besides the racial and color barriers still prevalent there, Brazil (and the rest of Latin America, it would seem) still has a very, very long way to go with respect to how gays and lesbians and other so-called "deviants" from society are treated and shown. Hey, that might be food for another of your hard-hitting articles!

Kids in the states routinely say, "How gay" in response to something ridic or weird. Should this be added to the list of Hate Crimes? Just asking.

Now that you are no longer writing, Augustus, may I say that the choice of your pen name, even if it is your real name, tended to work against you, since it was often used as a sterotyped parody name for the black male.

If you choose to come back at some future time, maybe another name would be better.

Best wishes.

As a clear example of such disposition is the existence of “social” and “services” elevators in nearly every residential building in Rio de Janeiro (and many in Sao Paulo)

Usually the "services" elevator is by the side of the "social" elevator and the only difference is that it doesn't have a mirror or anything that can be easily broken if someone is carrying furniture or something heavy.

In some other cases the services elevator is hidden, like in shopping centers, for the customers not to see sweat employees carrying boxes up and down and staying in their way while they are shopping.

Finally, a few words for Brazuca: I wish I had paid attention to your writings earlier – it was indeed an error which shall not be repeated. Furthermore, in light of my previous paragraph, I see no need for you “bother” considering “taking this Augustus”, as I no longer intend to purse an “active role” here or anywhere else in the “Brazzil mini-Universe.”

A wise decision on your part, Lord Augustus. Now we retreat, regroup and retaliate, never ever ignoring the Queensberry Rules.

See you in another thread real soon.

I was looking forward to reading the second part of your essay. It is a pity that people called you by all sort of names which in my opinion is highly regrettable and inelegant.

Hopefully, you will write an article of great interest to the English speaking Brasilians who live in Brasil and publish it in this site.

Sorry, mate, if I seemed like I was gonna get too antagonistic with you. Well, I was, but not in the way you imagine.

You see, I'm one of those crazy Christian fundamentalists you think so little of. Heck, I'm a six-day creationist, for goodness' sake. (I'd be a six-second creationist if I could get away with it! ) So I guess I took a bit of umbrage at your portraying us as knuckle-dragging Neanderthals -- not that we could be, of course, as there was never any such thing, these alleged creatures merely being human beings suffering rickets! LOL

While I admire the fact that you're a Brazilian who's acquired a masterful command of the English language, your worldview is all smoke and mirrors: impressive on the outside but really lacking any internal coherence. It was in this way that I was going to demolish your position, by showing the arbitrariness, inconsistency and/or self-contradiction of your humanistic worldview.

I wasn't just picking a baseless fight you; I was gonna discuss things at the fundamental level, which is what this whole "trying to understand Brazil" thing we're all interested in ultimately rests on. But, yeah, I was only gonna pick you on regarding your anti-Christian-worldview stance.

The Racist Anglo Saxon Frame of Mind

I disagree there. While Anglo-Saxons are generally known to have an unhealthy obsession with race, this is not universally the case. The Antipodes seem to present an exception to the rule.

The following paragraphs are from a blog post of mine made in October 2006 on the matter:

-----

Due to the unique cultural attributes developed from their histories, Australia and New Zealand ought to be seen as being exempt from the perceived need to wander around the desert in sackcloth wailing pitifully about their history and culture. This is because discrimination offends against the fair-go sensibilities of these people and their commitment to egalitarianism does not lend itself easily to notions of innate biological superiority. Thus, the cardinal Antipodean cultural virtues of egalitarianism and giving a fair go effectively act as bulwarks against the possibility of such discrimination and exclusion of which other Germanic societies have unfortunately been guilty in their history, thereby occasioning their remorse and self-reproach. This difference, this exceptionalism, can be demonstrated in the history as well as present reality of these Antipodean people.

Throughout the Nineties, Americans became overwhelmed with giddy optimism and self-congratulation at the sight of Colin Powell rising to the highest levels and offices in the military and government. They were delirious over the symbolism and significance this represented in light of their tawdry history of race relations. The prospect of his becoming president filled many an American heart with joy, promising as it did to cast out the demons of their unhealthy and debilitating obsession with race that has tormented them throughout their history. The hope of such a symbolic triumph continues in the United States, and the cultural elite tends to get particularly excited at the prospect of having a mulatto (as was Colin Powell) become president, no doubt due to the added significance and symbolism such would represent, and are currently getting carried away with schoolgirl excitement over the prospect of Barack Obama eventually running for president.

In striking contrast to the United States, New Zealand has throughout her history acted with a blithe disregard for race, never having had anything resembling racial segregation like the Jim Crow of the United States or the apartheid of South Africa. In fact, such has this been the case that in the dozen-or-so decades Maori and Pakeha have interacted with each other, no Maori today, constituting fifteen percent of the population, is full-blooded, the blood of Englishmen, Irishmen and Scotsmen running through his veins as much as that of his Maori ancestors. And while it is still considered quite an achievement in the United States to have blacks occupy the highest positions in government, such has been commonly the case in New Zealand with her Maori, not only in the recent Nineties but back in the Eighteen Nineties. Maori have also been prominent throughout New Zealand’s military history, both at the enlisted and commissioned levels, from as far back as the Boer War.

-----

Below is a link to a picture of two New Zealanders, an officer and a diplomat, visiting their troops during the First World War. The remarkable thing is, show this picture to a New Zealander and he will be lost as to what is interesting or remarkable about it. But show it to any Anglo-Saxon other than an Australian/New Zealander and the significance of what it portrays will be immediately apparent to him, astonishing him.

So Anglo-Saxons are not universally the same when it comes to race, some being more "Latin" on the matter than they are Germanic!

http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/media/photo/peter-buck-visiting-troops-in-france

I realise my previous post only really focuses on New Zealand (the more obvious example of Antipodean Exceptionalism), not really touching on Australia. So I'll add a few more paragraphs from that original blog post:

-----

It is well recognised by both Antipodeans and outsiders alike that Australians and New Zealanders are essentially the same people, only a slight difference in accent otherwise differentiating them. It is only really with regard to their indigenes that they are different. And it is only due to the difference in nature between their respective indigenes, and not discrimination or exclusion or what have you, that the Aboriginals have not been as prominently represented in positions of esteem, power and influence as have the Maori. This is because, as with New Zealand, Australian culture militates against the idea of placing any race-based barriers to social mobility or achievement. Indeed, such has been the natural Antipodean capacity to assimilate all and sundry that today’s multiplicity of races and cultures in Australia is not even a recent phenomenon. As historian Keith Windschuttle explains:

From 1788 onwards, the Australian colonies were never mono-racial, they were always multi-racial. As well as Aborigines, many non-white people from across the British Empire walked the streets of the early colonies. From the outset, Sydney had highly visible populations of Maoris, Tahitians, Hawaiians, Indians, Ceylonese, American negroes, West Indians, and Africans from Cape Town and Mauritius. At least 1000 of the convicts sent to Australia before 1850 were not white. From the 1850s to the 1890s, Chinese immigrants constituted the second biggest foreign-born population in Australia, exceeded only by those born in the British Isles.

[...]

So how are we to explain the zeal and gusto with which Australia and New Zealand participate in the multicultural fest of self-flagellation? Both countries appear remarkably exempt for any need to lower their heads in shame and receive penitently the admonishments of enlightened opinion. Why is there nevertheless the perceived need to go through the same cathartic motions as their Germanic brethren, who at least have some legitimate reason for self-reproach?

This is where the Antipodean curse of a cultural cringe comes into play. The intellectual elite of these societies simply do not have the self-confidence to go it alone. True to their cultural cringe, they are less interested in accepting and coming to terms with the reality in the Antipodes than they are in scurrying to ape whatever stances and views the intelligentsia in Europe and America take, regardless of whether their mimicry is unsuitable to the environment they inhabit or the circumstances in which they find themselves. If the official progressive script reads that all societies were characterised by obscurantist oppression and bucolic discrimination only until the liberating social revolutions of the Sixties, then that is an infallible pronouncement not open to question. Thus, if the facts disagree, then the facts be damned.

In their efforts to achieve verisimilitude with their European and progressive-American counterparts and become indistinguishable from them, Antipodean intellectuals have, ever since the Sixties' social revolutions, been busy forcing the facts to conform to their ideology. The fact, for example, that Australian Aboriginals were being happily and naturally assimilated into the Australian mainstream simply did not sit comfortable with the progressives' sine qua non of having an oppressed minority to champion, preferably dark-skinned. Thus, the Australian policy of allowing natural assimilation was replaced with that of Aboriginal self-determination. That this segregation of Aboriginals in isolated settlements only resulted in their immiseration only served, in the curious and surreal (but self-serving) logic of Australian progressives, to confirm the racism of Australians, with television images of Aboriginals living in third-world conditions while in a first-world country dismaying Australians and outsiders alike!

(Continued...)

The Australian public has therefore been held hostage to a situation created by their progressive elite in which they are damned if the do and damned if they don’t. If they assimilate Aboriginals, then this is evidence of racism, because it constitutes cultural genocide. If they opt for Aboriginal self-determination, then the impoverishment resulting from segregating them from the Australian mainstream is again evidence of racism. In addition to this, a whole history has been fabricated to show that European settlers committed genocide against the Aboriginals and stole their children, this propaganda fed through the media and education system as received truth. In such a way are Australian progressives able to shock their European and progressive-American brethren, leaving them in wonderment at the Neanderthal strength and extent of the barbarism and benightedness with which Australian progressives valiantly contend, thereby winning the kudos and admiration for which they desperately yearn.

One, however, must feel quite sorry for New Zealand’s progressives, such is the mountain they must climb. It is not as easy for them as it is for their cousins over the Tasman to portray such a damning picture of their past. While the United States was fighting its costly civil war over the matter of race, New Zealand had Maori politicians in Parliament, and this without anybody thinking anything of it. As already mentioned, there has never been anything resembling segregation in New Zealand’s history, instead quite the opposite. A veritably bleak prospect of redundancy and irrelevance must have faced the progressives of Aotearoa, leaving them with nothing to do but to loiter aimlessly around their halls of academe, hands in pockets, and sit silently in their cafes, sipping lattes with a faraway look, no cause to champion. Nevertheless, true to Antipodean resourcefulness, they managed to make do with being pernickety about the Treaty of Waitangi, and have succeeded in generating a whole Treaty-grievance industry, with Maori assuming an aggrieved posture, demanding placation and increasingly tending toward separatism. While of course paling in comparison to the American Civil Rights movement in gravitas, or its ersatz Australian equivalent in the form of Aboriginal reconciliation, it is nevertheless something, and it has managed to keep New Zealand's intelligentsia somewhat in the game. Poor things.

-----

Aboriginal assimilation replaced with "self-determination":

http://www.sydneyline.com/Remote communities.htm

On the fabrication of Aboriginal history:

http://www.sydneyline.com/National Museum Frontier Conflict.htm

On the myth of the "Stolen Generations" (of Aboriginal children:

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,20359408-25717,00.html

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23182149-28737,00.html

We can see here, I think, a similarity in the way that elements of the progressive intelligentsia in Brazil are bent on aping whatever mindsets or ideologies from places like America that they think are suitably fashionable, regardless of whether these ideas are suitable or not. A bit like donning the current fashion wear for a northern-hemisphere winter during Rio's January heat!

cú fedido, thank you very much for your important contribution, basically telling it like it is.

My favourite Grimm Brothers' tale is "The Emperor's New Clothes". This is because it speaks to such complex human frailties and motivations that cause people to see something right in front of them but yet to refuse to acknowledge it; preferring instead to parrot the received wisdom from approved sources. It's fascinating to watch the phenomenon of The Emperor's New Clothes manifest itself in human relations time and time again.

We see it, of course, demonstrated most incandescently in this whole race question as applied to Brazil. Is the American experience, history, understanding of race (and the overweening importance the society places on this concept) universally applicable, so that no claims to any exception can be tolerated as legitimate or worthy of consideration? Is it only a matter of the American way or the highway? Is an alternative story, a different historical experience and understanding allowed a seat at the table? It would seem not. The Emperor is clothed -- and look at the magnificent material. No, any dissension will suffer immediate banishment!

Your contribution is merely saying it like it is, pointing out that the Emperor is naked, as everyone can see. But you're willing to acknowledge it, because it is the truth. You're not mesmerised by this need to seek approval from those you think are somehow you cultural or intellectual betters just because they come from a richer country. You're prepared to call a spade a spade. And this spade is not characterised (nor has it ever been characterised) by Jim Crow/segregation, whether de jure or de facto.

to compare people brought over by slavery to people who immigrated is ridiculas

people who immigrate have a choice, people who brought over in slavery dont

immigrants have support structures, the italians and germans were welcomed in the south of brazil. slaves were freed and left with nothing, the real "nothing".

i cant buy the take on the media that the stations are only playing to the people who buy the sponcers products and that people want to see real life. entertainment has always been about fantacy. of course there was the show on globo where the black female was a maid and prostitute, they packed the stereo type into one character...amazing

how can you know if shows depicting afro brazilian life wouldnt sell ? they have never really been done....they do run black shows from the usa , though....is it because they think it wont sell ?

for the people so hung up on what americans are saying about brazilian racism, there just arnt that many coming down here telling brazilians what they have to do about race. what a great racialism to hide behind

forget the usa , it is a bad example of how to deal with race, but, any country in the americas that brought slaves from africa, has its own issues to deal with. to not confront it and deal with it only guarentees a society that will be at the mercy of those issues

tv in brasil looks like its all shot in blumenau...

there are 700 favelas in rio , mostly a result of not dealing with issues of race and how things evolved from slavery

you dont accept individual accounts of racism ? favelas are a visible example of racism in society .racism isnt only the brutal kkk type. it can be invisible and insidious

these referances to dionisian values etc are pretty amusing, but, really short on substance

anyone who thinks afro brazilian culture any less than any white culture is just biased and opiniated. are europeans who go to ballet any less dionisian than someone who loves sambao ?

are europeans who go to ballet any less dionisian than someone who loves sambao ?

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

To the above reference "spade", a well know pejorative term only slightly less offensive to the "N" word.

What one writes can hurt other people´s feelings. Kindly Cease and Desist.

It was OK for Ethel Waters to use this kind of language, but those days are over. Wonderful lady, I met her in 1964. No more Black and Tan, no more Spade, no more Little Black Boy. Shape up.

what i said was we should not be held responsable for the past of others . of race, religon ,color .
not all whits owned slaves , as not all black were slaves .
but for some reasom it falls back to the same thing
poor me for some reason

as the people of the world mature so does the ruel of law and the rights of man and woman .

what will be different to see is when the whits are the minority and start reciving the perks given to the minorties .

will the laws change to reflect the now . or stay with the then .

to me class its the biguest hold back

the italians and germans were welcomed in the south of brazil.

Hahahaha, they were "welcomed" to replace the slaves in the coffee farms! This depiction of the life of immigrants as easy is not correct. Again, it is ideology instead of reality.

there are 700 favelas in rio , mostly a result of not dealing with issues of race and how things evolved from slavery

Incorrect again. There's a huge problem of economic inequality between the many Brazilian regions due to historical reasons and settlement. Some places are more "backwards" because they were where the great land owners ruled, some other places grew faster because of the shift to an industrialized society, some other places just weren't properly colonized.

Everyday thousands of people arrive to the Southeast, especially to the capitals, from another part of this country looking for a better life. They have nothing. Where will they live? In the favela.

If Brazil had economic balance among its regions there would be no need for people to migrate. This is not a racial issue. Just take a look at the population distribution across the states. São Paulo is over 40 million people and is by far the most populated state, mainly because it is the economic heart of this country.

you dont accept individual accounts of racism ? favelas are a visible example of racism in society .racism isnt only the brutal kkk type. it can be invisible and insidiou

I just showed you it is not. And if it's "invisible" how did you reach the conclusion that there's racism?

anyone who thinks afro brazilian culture any less than any white culture is just biased and opiniated. are europeans who go to ballet any less dionisian than someone who loves sambao ?

I don't think it is, I know it. I live here and the only constant I observe, even in my own family, is that those with good values tend to do better in life and those who care about partying and sex only tend to have difficulties.

Unfortunately, for a large portion of our society, sexual prowess and fun comes first. It's more important than securing a future for themselves.

While this "samba" culture persists there will be poverty and inequality in this country.

the rich are the most dionisiac of all, who are you trying to fool

you didnt show me anything. poverty in the north east has lots of roots based on most of the slaves were brought there in larger numbers.brazil was the largest importer of slaves in the americas and didnt abolish slavery until 1880 somthing and ileagal slaves were still brought up to porto das galinhas. people in poverty migrate to areas to find better jobs.

you dont think that this is one of the contributing factors to poverty in brazil ? there is a sub world in brazil, im not talking about criminals, but, they are a part of it. if you dont look at the real reasons why thing are the way they are, you will just keep having those problems.i want brazil to prosper...

and, racism manifests in many ways. you seem to be caught up in the american kkk segrataion definition. i see it as something that , can be holding a people down in a way that can manifest in other ways than segration or one on one encounters. look at the university numbers for afro brazilians. im sure you have some sort rationalisation for that..

i dont care how closed minded you want to be about art, that is your hang up, dont ever think you can tell me what is high art by your experiance. you have the right to state what you prefer, but, you cant tell me what i prefer. and, ill debate you to the high ends of earth on the high reguards that afro brazilian culture should be held in, and, first off with sambao...bateria and passistas

You aren't thinking logically. You are just reiterating the same nonsensical assumptions of "there must be racism because I want to believe in it".

The reasons for poverty can be historical, but that doesn't mean that every poor individual is poor because of history. The reality that some people seem to ascend in life through their own means and some don't makes us question: "why?". Why can one person ascend in life through his own means and another can't?

If we start analyzing the differences between the lives of both we will inevitably find values as the biggest difference. For some education and work are important for securing a good future, and for others sex and fun is more important. Does it mean that every poor person gives more importance to sex and every rich person gives more importance to work? No, because some people are born in rich families already, but all that ascend (through its own means, not through corruption) do have good values.

Have you ever met one of those that you believe to be kept in a state of poverty? You will find a remarkably different system of values. For example, I had a colleague at job once that his solution for problems was to call you to "fight" outside after work hours, he would brag a lot about how many girls he had slept with and what parties he had gone to on the weekend.

i think if any country wants to be great, they need to help pull those on the bottom into the system as best as posible

understanding what are the various reasons why groups of people are stuck where they are , goes a long way at solving the problems

places like bolivia, that didnt have a large slave population , have more poverty in the indigenous population .if people understand what the problems in society are, and, what are some of the various causes, it only opens the door to solving those problems.

looking at brazil's past, millions of people from africa were brought in slavery , millions were freed with no infra structure , no support from the government , no posecians or any meaningful wealth, something that immigrants can bring . understanding how these forces can shape the destiny of things to come would be essential to making a better society...

the media (three or four black faces is extremly token in comparison to the sea of white faces), the high class neighborhoods , most plane flights , most high end restaurants ,the college classrooms , most executive and political positions, are all indications that afro brazilians are excluded , for what ever reason , from those things .

if you want to get semantical and say that isnt racism , by your definition and tails you win , heads i lose, then fine, but, you will have to put it that brazil needs to deal with its slavery past, if it isnt racism

sweeping a cancer under the rug and pretending it doesnt exist ,doesnt do brazil any good at all, and, in an age of wonderful growth in brazil , to let something like not confronting its past , drag it down is too bad, because prosperity is at hand if people can deal with the problems in society

and there are plenty of fine brazilians looking at their past and trying to deal with it

and there are plenty of fine brazilians looking at their past and trying to deal with it

Tarso Genro is one of them.

Brazil allegedly imported four million African slaves from the sixteenth thru the nineteenth centuries, 35.4% of the total, English speaking N. America 500,000 in the same period, or 4.4%.

But by 1860 there were 4,000,000 slaves in the USA, including those born in the U.S.; Portugal was by far the biggest slave trader from 1440 thru 1640.

From various sources.

I have helped several victims of modern day slavery in Brazil, and none of them was what one would call black. O coronelzinho from the Southland of Brazil tring to cheat the jungle out of a comfortable living by keeping workers against their will.

He should go back home. How do guys who believe in randomness handle that? No Divine Retribution?

While this "samba" culture persists there will be poverty and inequality in this country.