Brazzil

Since 1989 trying to understand Brazil

Search

Custom Search

Cheap Mobile Phones
---------------
Members : 5608
Content : 3496
Content View Hits : 23868137

Who's Online

We have 195 guests online

Login Form



Related Items

Brazzil Magazine
From Brazzil Mag news team
Brazzil Magazine


Brazil 2009 - The Year of Living Dangerously PDF Print E-mail
Written by John Fitzpatrick   
Monday, 22 December 2008 05:39

Round table. Fitzpatrick is the one with the mikeThe year 2009 will be the penultimate of President Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva's term in office and looks like being the toughest of his two mandates. The favorable international situation we saw not so long ago, which boosted demand for Brazilian products like iron ore, soybeans, sugar, coffee and beef, has gone. 

The "decoupling" theory that developing economies would be unaffected by the problems of the advanced countries, thanks to China's ongoing growth, has lost credibility. The decline in oil prices has ended the euphoria over the discovery of huge offshore petroleum reserves.

Even the enthusiasm over the prospects for ethanol as a renewable fuel to replace fossil fuels has fizzled out. The international crisis has still not hit Brazil with full force and Lula has acted to mitigate its impact.

However, how he reacts when things get worse will be critical and Brazilians can only hope that any frustration he feels that his achievements will be thwarted by what he sees as an external contagion will not lead to hasty decisions.

So far, Lula has remained restrained and his approach has won widespread support. A recent survey by the CNT/Sensus organization showed that Lula's personal popularity rating was an astounding 80.3% - up from 77.7% in the previous survey three months earlier.

The poll also shows that people are still fairly optimistic, with 37.9% feeling Brazil would overcome the crisis and 41.9% believing it would emerge stronger afterwards. At the same time, a hefty 40% felt Brazil was not prepared for the full impact of the crisis.

Lula has reversed his earlier view that the crisis was restricted to the United States and would only have a "ripple" effect on Brazil. He has responded by freeing up credit to try and ensure that exporters and companies have enough funds for working capital and future investments.

His main fear is that unemployment will rise and hit his bedrock support among the working class and poorer section of society. He also wants to encourage consumption and has backed up actions by the Central Bank, the BNDES development bank, and state-owned banks by personal appeals to private sector banks to make more credit available.

He has also called on companies not to fire workers and even interrogated the CEO of the mining group, Vale, in which the government owns a substantial stake, on his plans to dismiss staff. In turn, Lula has had to listen to requests by companies and employers' associations to ease Brazil's restrictive labor laws to allow temporary lay-offs although there has been no sign that he will heed them.

Lula has also made it clear that he expects the Central Bank to cut interest rates at its next meeting in January 2009. While Central Banks all over the world have been slashing interest rates - to between zero and 0.25% in the United States, for example - Brazil's monetary policy committee left the rate unchanged at a world high of 13.75% at its last meeting. This was the first time Lula has made known his desire for lower interest rates so publicly and specifically that one wonders just how much "independence" the Central Bank now has.

Whether this was just an off-the-cuff remark and his calls to the banks and industry were just general appeals or signs that Lula intends interfering more is yet to be seen. However, they reflect my worst fear that Lula's frustration as he sees growing threats to his triumphs - rising GDP, higher levels of employment and income, greater social equality - will lead him to lash out and forget the lessons he has learned over the last six years.

Deep down, Lula does not believe in the market economy and believes the state should have the final say. For example, his response to the recent merger of Banco Itaú and Unibanco which will topple the state-controlled Banco do Brasil from its leading position was to call on BB to buy up other banks and regain its position.

He must be taking heart from the actions of governments in capitalist countries like the US and UK which are buying up banking assets and providing aid packages to industry. If anyone criticizes his approach, all Lula needs to do is to point to George Bush's announcement on December 19 that the US will make US$ 17.4 billion available to help the troubled American carmakers.

The incoming President, Barack Obama, has also made it clear that he will be pouring billions of dollars of public funds into packages to improve infrastructure projects, something which sounds similar to Lula's Accelerated Growth Package (known as the PAC).

With the capitalist world floundering and no clear policies other than spending taxpayers' money in sight anywhere, Lula will feel justified in following his own instincts.

If these lead to higher public debt and rising inflation, then so be it. This is a cost Lula, the ideologue, might be prepared to pay but whether the Brazilian electorate will go along with it is another matter, particularly if it leads to a return to the high inflation which plagued the country for 20 years.

The fall in commodity prices, including oil, may have dented Brazil's trade balance and hit its commodity exporters but it has reduced inflationary expectations for the moment so this danger looks remote.

However, as 2009 proceeds we will see the parties choose their candidates for the 2010 presidential and state governorship elections. Lula cannot stand again and his preferred candidate, Dilma Rousseff, who is still virtually unknown at national level will face an uphill battle in establishing her credentials against a world recession and an economic downturn in Brazil.

If Lula gives in and lets his heart rule his head then he will probably pave the way into office for his political rival, José Serra of the PMDB, the governor of São Paulo state.                            

To offset this rather alarming prospect, let me mention a round table discussion I took part in recently, organized by the British Chamber of Commerce in São Paulo. The following correspondents also took part: Todd Benson (Reuters), John Rumsey (freelance), Jonathan Wheatley (Financial Times), Ken Rapoza (Wall Street Journal) and Rogério Simões of the BBC in London.

Most were cautiously optimistic about Brazil's prospects for the coming year although Benson was not as upbeat as the rest of us. Simões's comments as an "insider", i.e. the only Brazilian commentator, were particularly valuable.

He put the current crisis into perspective by comparing it with the situation at the beginning of the 90s when the finance minister - whose knowledge of running an economy came straight from textbooks - "solved" the problem of inflation by freezing every single person's bank account.    
 
In conclusion, I would like to wish all Brazzil readers a happy Christmas and prosperous New Year, particularly those who have taken the trouble to write to me or comment on my articles whether they agreed with me or not. 

John Fitzpatrick is a Scottish writer and consultant with long experience of Brazil. He is based in São Paulo and runs his own company Celtic Comunicações. This article originally appeared on his site www.brazilpoliticalcomment.com.br. He can be contacted at This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it .

© John Fitzpatrick 2008



Add this page to your favorite Social Bookmarking websites
Reddit! Del.icio.us! Mixx! Free and Open Source Software News Google! Live! Facebook! StumbleUpon! TwitThis Joomla Free PHP
Comments (144)Add Comment
An article full of scrap...this time !
written by ch.c., December 22, 2008
1)"all Lula needs to do is to point to George Bush's announcement on December 19 that the US will make US$ 17.4 billion available to help the troubled American carmakers."

2 months ago Lula already announced financial support of US$ 3,9 billion to the Brazilian auto-industry. Therefore it should be Bush that should point out what Brazilian troubled FOREIGN car makers
got as Government Help ! therefore why not...in the USA...could be bush answer !

2)" demand for Brazilian products like iron ore, soybeans, sugar, coffee and beef, has gone."

SO WRONG !
- Cocoa price is at a 20 years HIGH IN US$, therefore on top of your currency slide, your cocoa growers should not do that bad at all.
- Coffee price is down about 25 % from its 2007 average of around
US$ 1,45 per pound. But in view of your currency slide, your farmers
even should do somewhat better in LOCAL CURRENCY than their 2007 average selling prices !
- Sugar....even better than for Coffee...when measured in brazilian LOCAL CURRENCY ! The average price in 2008 in LOCAL CURRENCY, even with today price is MUCH HIGHER than in 2007 !

There are a lot of faked tears from Brazilians medias and farmers who are in fact LYING to beg for more, when actual prices are not any worse than in 2007 in Local Currency, and usually even better prices !

Come on, come on ! Do your maths once more ! The Brazilian currency is not the US$ from what I know !!!!
In Local Currency...your farmers in the commodities stated above are doing BETTER in 2008...including at today prices.....than in 2007 !

Everything else is PURE STATS MANIPULATION...FOR MORE BEGGING !!!!!
Typical of Brazilian mentality !

3) I could continue on and on and on for a while as to the
(UN?)Voluntary errors in the above article.
...
written by João da Silva, December 22, 2008
Most were cautiously optimistic about Brazil's prospects for the coming year although Benson was not as upbeat as the rest of us. Simões's comments as an "insider", i.e. the only Brazilian commentator, were particularly valuable.

He put the current crisis into perspective by comparing it with the situation at the beginning of the 90s when the finance minister - whose knowledge of running an economy came straight from textbooks - "solved" the problem of inflation by freezing every single person's bank account.


The comment made by Mr.Simões is indeed highly valuable, especially for the ones who believe in "Saving for the rainy days". He seems to be a Brazilian with long memory and has not forgotten about the "20 Year Cycle" about which some other smart commentators in this site have already pointed out.

In conclusion, I would like to wish all Brazzil readers a happy Christmas and prosperous New Year, particularly those who have taken the trouble to write to me or comment on my articles whether they agreed with me or not.


Thanks and the same to you and yours, John.
Most were cautiously optimistic about Brazil's prospects for the coming year ?????????
written by ch.c., December 22, 2008
Just re-read ALL ARTICLES and statements made earlier this year, coming from Government estimates and facts, or from forum members !!!!

Nearly 99 % were OVER OPTIMISTIC...including you...Joao !!!!
Again....just re-read your own comments and disagreements we had...earlier in the year and even last year !!!!

Short memory on the China-India growth demand theory ????

Well....you have it now ! They are still growing NEARLY as much as
EARLIER !!!!! Are they not ?
Therefore why have commodities prices tumbled ???? Due to China-India demand ? Of course....Noooooooooo !!!!!!

Sorry Joao....but I cant stop...LAUGHING !!!!
Ch.C
written by João da Silva, December 22, 2008
Nearly 99 % were OVER OPTIMISTIC...including you...Joao !!!!


Please do quote some of my "Over Optimistic" comments. smilies/cheesy.gif
Brazil 2009 - What Next?
written by Gus Taskavaig, December 26, 2008
Well, I’m writing this comment from my hotel room in Copacabana. And I must admit that after several visits to this wonderful country - although the government and population seems to be optimist about Brazil’s economy - the reality is far from it! The gap between the poor and the rich is even greater than 40 years ago. The true colours of Brazil’s society can be seen everywhere you go - however, all the adverts, newspapers, tv commercials and billboards represent another face to the country. Brazil’s Lula may be feeling good about his performance, but overall, a greater percentage of this great nation never saw any change to their ‘human rights!’

So, when I asked to a Brazilian friend of my... ‘what next, João?’ He responded by saying... “According to all Brazilians, there’s hope, yet!”

God bless this nation... because over 70% of the population probably can’t and will never afford to SAVE for a rainy day. However, there’s hope yet!
Israel should stop the carnage immediately.
written by Ricardo C. Amaral, December 31, 2008
December 31, 2008

SouthAmerica: It is a disgrace what the Israeli air raids are doing to the Palestinian territory of Gaza – and once again they have killed hundreds of people, including many women and children.

The Brazilian government should break diplomatic relations with Israel immediately if they don’t stop this carnage.

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72712&perpage=6&pagenumber=60

.
...
written by dnbaiacu, December 31, 2008


The "decoupling" theory that developing economies would be unaffected by the problems of the advanced countries, thanks to China's ongoing growth, has lost credibility.

That was always wishful thinking. The minimal amount of knowledge in political science could have cast off "decoupling" as a dream.
We shall eat the liver of Israel!
written by Hammas, January 01, 2009
Yeh why should Israel stop the elimination of the terrorist organization Hammas's leadership and infrastructure. They are attempting to wipe from the map the State of Israel. That is their raison d'etre. Why should any Nation allow its citizens to be randomly assasinated by 1000 of rockets. You are obviously an Arab terrorist living in the bossom of the U.S. just waiting to undermine and dance in the streets the the failure of U.S. national policy. You are a subversive, a traitor waiting in the wings, I have read your cheering before for the failure of the U.S. you sir should be rounded up and expatriated back to Brazil where you can bloviate the ills of the Western world till your spleen is spent. You are a rank muslim sympathizing jingoist.
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, January 01, 2009
The Brazilian government should break diplomatic relations with Israel immediately if they don’t stop this carnage.


More easily said than done, Ricardo. When the U.N, did not come to any agreement last night in their "Emergency Session", how do you expect the Brazilian government to break off the diplomatic relations with Israel unilaterally ? Especially, when all the "decision makers" are on their year end vacation. IMHO the "Western Leaders" don't give two hoots about the "hundreds of people including women and children" being killed in Gaza. For example, that "Pavão" Sarkozy of France spent almost a week in a beach resort in BA and almost everyday, he was issuing statements expressing his "concern" about this conflict. Now that he is back in France, I don't read about his making any efforts to stop the conflict. Lets not forget that France is one of the permanent members of the security council of U.N. and it has more power than Brazil does.

BTW, I did read your comments in the Elite Trader about this issue. My view is that Obama is giving another 19 days for Israel to wipe out Hamas by alleging that "there can be only one President at a time". Then one problem less for him to worry about when he is sworn in.

So for Brazil to break off the Diplomatic Relationship with Israel at this point of time will be a futile exercise. Even the mighty Hugo, Raul, Evo, Cristina, etc; who gathered two weeks ago in BA to pat each others back have not issued any statements about this crisis.

Have a great 2009.
Ricardo Amaral
written by João da Silva, January 01, 2009
You will understand why I call Sarkozy a "Pavão" when you read the following:

A ministra de Assuntos Exteriores de Israel, Tzipi Livni, disse hoje ao presidente da França, Nicolas Sarkozy, que ainda não é hora de frear a atual ofensiva de seu país na Faixa de Gaza e que os bombardeios continuarão até que o Hamas suspenda seus ataques contra povoados israelenses.

— Tomaremos nossa decisão quando for o momento — declarou a chefe da diplomacia israelense quando deixava o Palácio do Eliseu, onde foi recebida pelo chefe do Estado francês, que visitará a região nas próximas segunda e terça-feira, em uma nova tentativa de conseguir um cessar-fogo.

Em um tom contundente, Livni explicou que a decisão de frear a operação militar será tomada com base nas "avaliações cotidianas" que Israel realiza e quando essas análises deixarem claro que o Hamas compreendeu que não pode continuar agindo como faz atualmente.


If Sarko received Tspsi Livni and listened to her crap, why should Brazil take an unilateral decision to break off the Diplomatic relationship with Israel? If he was so concerned about the lives being lost in Gaza, he should have refused to receive her. You see, it was very easy to give instructions from BA and became more difficult to act when he returned to Mother France.
Israel being blamed again
written by Shelly 1, January 03, 2009
Ricardo,

Your comment shows how little you know of the situation. I have been to Israel and my people live in constant fear of being attack by suicide bombers. Not only that, Hammas continuously attacked Israel, are you crying about the dead Israeli too? You seem one sided on this issue, be sure there are no saints on both sides, but Israel has the right to defend itself.

Hope for Brazil
written by Shelly 1, January 03, 2009
Politicians in Brazil are not interested in helping the poor get out of poverty.

Hope for Brazil will come when the people take their anger out in the streets and send a clear message to the government. Even in China people organize against the government, in Brazil, is all about samba, footebol, carnaval, praia, e mulher bonita. Not necessarily on the same order!
Ricardo
written by Shelly 1, January 03, 2009
I think you are a nice guy, but naive. I am not sure that you have been to Jerusalem, but if you can, please go and visit and speak to the people. Everyone there wants peace. Israel does not attack unless it is provoked, and it does with force.

Israel has the right to defend itself against rogue governments and people, at least the Israeli government tries to take care of its citizens-education is 100% good, the people are well skilled, it is a great country.

In Rio and other cities, we are attacked not by outsiders, but by gangs of drug dealers and people can only hope for God's help. The municipal, state, and federal government does not wish to stop with "o jogo do bicho" which is a front for selling drugs and money laundering practice. You should be criticizing Brazil, for failing to defend Brazilians from the terror and violence.

More people die in Brazil everyday than in Afghanistan, Iraq, Israel, Palestine, you name it!

If Brazil was a serious country, it would stop making deals with rogue South American dictators, I say people always have the government they diverse, but in S.A. egomaniacs are presidents!
John
written by Shelly 1, January 03, 2009
Merry Christmas to you too!

I would like to point out that free market economy is only true when the economy itself is doing great. As we have seen, governments of "free market economies" have in the past intervened when the very things that make the wheel turn are working. America and Britain are doing the same, buying what they can, helping stabilizing as much as possible the current markets. The only true theory here is the "too big to fail", little people like me have to file for bankruptcy, but companies like GM, Ford and Chrysler, after lobbying billions of dollars, are now asking for a hand-out.

The only hope I see for Brazil is that if someone half-decent gets elected, do we even have a good candidate? That should have been your first question.

There she blows again… Ol’ Shelly, Te Know at All!
written by ..., January 03, 2009
That’s what happens when you are married to a gay spouse. Poor Shelly, gets no action from her moron gay husband, the rotten teeth brit.

Shelly, your problem is that you haven’t got laid in such a long time. Unfortunately, with your looks (butt a.s.s ugly), it seems be a real issue for you.

You know how most people live and learn, in your case, you live to moan!

Kisses in those fat nadegas and a happy new “anus” baby…

Yours one and only,

Costa
Ricardo, Brazil can't do that!
written by Adriana A., January 04, 2009
"The Brazilian government should break diplomatic relations with Israel immediately if they don’t stop this carnage."

I trust you know some Brazilian history!

I think your suggestion can't be donne for historical reasons.
Have you ever heard of Osvaldo Aranha?

Yes, Israel's birth as a state came about when Osvaldo Aranha(born in 1910s? in Rio Grande do Sul, a Southern Brazilian State)was presiding over the very first special session of the U.N. General Assembly -he served as ambassador and in 1947-1948 he was the president of the U.N. general assembly.

As the vote for the creation of Israel ended in a tie, Osvaldo being the president had to decide, and he voted for Israel.

I think last year his descendents went to Israel for a special ceremony to honor him. I think there are streets in Israel that have his name.
So, as you can see this unrealistic decision would put Brazil at odds, and would be quite ironic.

One more thing about him. He was an ambassador to Washington, D.C. in 1937? -I think- when he heard that Vargas wanted to install a semifacist regime in Brazil, he resigned his post in protest. He was also a major force working for alignment of Brazil with the allies in world War II.

I wish we could have more people like him in the Brazilian Diplomacy today, and not the likes of Celso Amorin that made a stupid comment at the Doha Rounds last year. He compared some aspect of the American policy with Goobles' nazi propaganda I think. I was so upset when I read that on the news. Just plain stupid.
Why don't Amorin make criticism to the Lula's propaganda? Which are just lies. Just like Shelly wrote above, Brazilian Government have enough problems to be concern about.
Ana P
written by João da Silva, January 04, 2009
Why don't Amorin make criticism to the Lula's propaganda?


He being a career diplomat and appointed by the current Government as the Minister for External Affairs, he can not afford to do it, Ana.He is there to implement the policies formulated by the government, though his personal views may be different.The president has a foreign policy adviser (Garcia) who is the real "Manda Chuva" in policy issues. I used to be critical of Celso Amorim, but no longer. Just remember Collin Powell´s speeches during his tenure as the Sec of state and later when he was endorsing Obama for the Presidency! Amorim´s task is made more difficult, because he is still a career employee of Itamaraty!!

BTW, I am posting below a nice link to understand more about the personal efforts being put forth by our President to enhance our image outside the Americas:

http://www.estadao.com.br/esta...2187,0.php


There are are no arabs holding land deeds in the palestine areas. yes, they lived therfe, but they worked on OTTOMAN EMPIRE LAND, not "palestinian land".
written by hummus, January 04, 2009
no arab owned land in jewish palestine or palestine. none!!!! no land deeds, nothing. the whole of the land which is today israel and jordan and all arab land was owned by the ottoman empire of which, england, when it conquered it and defeated it, took all the land with the french and divided it into little newborn countries such a lebanon and transjordan/jordan, which are as new as israel.

therfe are no arabs holding land deeds in the palestine areas. yes, they lived therfe, but they worked on OTTOMAN EMPIRE LAND, not "palestinian land".

it was an arab nomadic communities or surfs and farmers working the land for ottoman landlords that were absent from that area, living somewhere else like syria or another place in the arab world. the so called palestinians were basically arabs owned by the ottoman empire and not citizens of any country, much less palestine. none of these arabs had a national identity like "palestinian". no government, no land owned, no monetary system, no rulers, or anything like court systems, schools, governments, etc... they were fallahim surfs owned and operated by the ottoman rulers without any country of their own. yes, some arabs lived on this land in villages, but IT WAS NOT THEIR COUNTRY. IT WAS OTTOMAN OWNED....TURKISH, NOT ARAB!

Philip Hitti was a scholar of Islam and introduced the field of Arab culture studies to the United States, and in 1945 he served as an advisor to the Arab delegation at the San Francisco Conference which established the United Nations. Philip Hitti almost single handedly created the discipline of Arabic Studies in the United States.
Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not."
He likewise opposed the use of the name Palestine on area maps because it was “associated in the mind of the average American, and perhaps the Englishman too, with the Jews”.


...
written by João da Silva, January 04, 2009
He likewise opposed the use of the name Palestine on area maps because it was “associated in the mind of the average American, and perhaps the Englishman too, with the Jews”.


Was Dr.Philip Hitti in favor of creating the state of "Israel" in the middle of the erstwhile Ottoman empire? What alternative plans did he have for those displaced serfs of the Ottoman empire? Never heard of Hitti,but thanks for providing this historical fact.Shall research further.
The Peel Commission 1937
written by hummus, January 04, 2009
The Peel Commission of 1937 found Arab claims that Jews stole their land as baseless. Land shortages were due more in part to massive Arab immigration to Palestine from other Arab countries than to Jewish land purchases. Chapter IX of the Peel Commission states,

“The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.”

Whereas the British resigned much of Palestine to be “uninhabitable,” the Jews took this “barren wasteland,” drained the swamps and “made the desert bloom.” Many of the Jewish-owned citrus groves at the time were situated on sand dunes viewed by the British as “uncultivable.”

It is without doubt that the Jews, in their quest to purchase and acquire more land, did not take any land from Arabs unlawfully. Furthermore, Arab absentee landlords living elsewhere and real estate brokers sold their land to Jews at an inflated cost.

As of today, not a single person representing the pro-Palestinian view has been able to contradict this reality using any official documentation, land data or historical records.

Furthermore, the Peel Commission admitted that Arabs on the whole, benefited from a growing Jewish presence in the land as they brought economic prosperity and stability to Palestine and its inhabitants.

“The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.”

Up until 1948, the Palestinian Arab population grew approximately 120 percent. This population growth occurred in tandem with Palestinian Jewish population growth and for reasons often overlooked. Jewish immigration and subsequent economic growth in Palestine led to increased Arab immigration from other countries by those seeking economic opportunity. Many Arabs at the time wandered around the Middle East seeking sustenance and a means to support their families.

Arab claims that they were displaced from their homes after living there generation after generation for thousands of years were baseless and fabricated. Most Arabs living in Palestine prior to 1948 had come from Arab lands in search of subsistence and had not been in Palestine for more than a few years.

In addition, the Jews cleared unused land, drained swamps in the Jezreel Valley and surrounding areas and in doing so, helped rid the country of its widespread malaria problem. They established medical clinics, improved water supplies and developed better solutions to deal with sanitation. All this, directly led to better health, higher standard of living, longer life expectancy and a lower infant mortality rate.

It is clear that Arab complaints against Jews were, for the most part, politically motivated, and did not reflect the reality in Palestine at the time. In comparison to their lives in Arab countries or the situation in Palestine before massive Jewish immigration, Arabs saw a consistently increased improvement in their standard of living, overall health and improved economic stability - all while cultivating their own land.


Hamas passes crucifixion as punishment.
written by hummus, January 04, 2009
MERRY CHRISTMAS! Hamas enacts Islamic law: Hand amp**ation, crucifixion, lashes and execution
Give 'em a state! Give 'em billions in jizya! Give'em international respect! Give 'em a saw!

Hamas enacts Islamic (Sharia) laws:

Hand amp**ation, crucifixion, lashes and execution

By Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook, Palestinian Media Watch

Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council in Gaza have approved a new bill "to implement Koranic punishments," including hand amp**ation, crucifixion, corporal punishment and execution. Drinking, owning or producing wine is punished by 40 lashes, while drinking in public adds three months' imprisonment. Several laws are directed against Hamas's Palestinian rivals, including a law intended to inhibit non-Hamas negotiators by sentencing to death anyone who was "appointed to negotiate with a foreign government on a Palestinian issue and negotiated against Palestinians' interest."

The following is the description as it appears today on the Al Arabiya website:
Headline: Hamas approves law of punishment by lashes, amp**ating hands, crucifying, and execution -- in order to implement the Islamic Sharia law.
Hamas members of the Palestinian Legislative Council approved in its meeting in Gaza a new bill proposed by the Hamas who have a majority in the Legislative Council, whose purpose is "to implement Koranic punishments." The newspaper Al Hayat of London reported on Dec. 24, 2008, that this step is seen as unprecedented, and has brought criticism and concern from human rights organizations in the Gaza Strip, especially as this law includes punishments by lashes, cutting off of hands, crucifixion, and execution...
The language of the law proposes "primary and secondary" laws. Primary laws include: "Koranic laws, blood revenge, lashes, crucifixion, and execution ..."
The text stresses: "These punishments will not be canceled or pardoned ... except if pardoned by the victim himself...
...
written by João da Silva, January 04, 2009
Hamas passes crucifixion as punishment.


Any proof of this punishment being implemented?
They just passed the law on the 24th, give them a chance. Well maybe that was the staw that broke the camels back.
written by hummus, January 04, 2009
They just passed the law on the 24th of December; give them a chance. They did however shoot 74 people in the leg and kill another 34 members of Fatah so they would not help the Israelis.
...
written by João da Silva, January 04, 2009
They did however shoot 74 people in the leg and kill another 34 members of Fatah so they would not help the Israelis.


Hummus, I am slightly lost to follow your logic here. Palestines and the Israelis are in a never ending war and therefore technically enemies. If those 108 people were willing to help the Israelis, it constituted treason. The punishment are based on the laws (civilian or military) of the Land. I must confess that I do not know their laws. If the civilian or military courts found that they were guilty of treason, some kind of punishment had to be given to them. I am the least qualified person to say if maiming and killing those 104 is justified, without knowing the laws of that particular land.

BTW, I have become a bit wary of the western propaganda about Sharia laws, Sunni Vs Shias, etc; after what happened to Saddam Hussein. No WMD, No bunkers, No rape rooms, No proof of Uranium cakes,etc; A Kangaroo court was held to try our Saddam Hussein, found guilty and hanged right at dawn. That gentleman ran the country with iron fist, but at least it had good educational system, health service, equal rights for women and jobs for people. He also gave asylum to Palestines providing them with jobs.

So you will excuse me if I don't buy your theory of "the last straw that broke the Camel´s back" when the Hamas blokes passed their Sharia laws on Dec 24th. It was a nice try, though! smilies/grin.gif
Joao
written by Adriana A., January 04, 2009
"Just remember Collin Powell´s speeches during his tenure as the Sec of state and later when he was endorsing Obama for the Presidency! Amorim´s task is made more difficult, because he is still a career employee of Itamaraty!!"

Yes, I'm not in a position to judge them!
but Colin Powell made a foul of himself when he made that regretable speech at the U.N. a couple months before the war on Iraq. I remember seeing him on TV presenting his case to the general assembly using some hand made slides -very poor btw, not even a power point- to where the WMD could be hiden. With that he killed his credibility and his dignity. Unfortunately, he'll be remembered as such, just like Henry Kissinger will be remembered in Latin America as an interventionist.

Yes, I have read -not much- about Garcia though, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he said that the Farcs is not a terrorist organization, but a political-social movement? That remark was enough to scare the heck out of me. I don't know what does he have in mind, but I'm sure is nothing related to education, security, health, justice...

I don't know, you are in Brazil, you read and know more about the Brazilian political affairs than me, but we don't really know what Amorin thinks, at least Osvaldo had the courage to resigned when he saw that Vargas was up to no good, for instance, isntall a semifascist regime in Brazil -I know this is an extreme example. And in the case of Powell, don't you think that making a false case to invade a country, is some sort of "Blind Obedience"? And how will a civilized person live with that? Knowing that he was in a position to decide?

Again, I don't like to judge, but Powell, Amorin, and Garcia have to take responsibility for their actions and non-actions. Their jobs are to serve the people and their country with honesty and integrity! Like Osvaldo did.

Joao -about the link
written by Adriana A., January 04, 2009
I think is good, isn't it? for Lula to represent Brazil oversees.
I just wish he could say less B***S*** though! And keep his jokes for himself. Nothing wrong to have sense of humor, but there is an appropriate time for them.
Believe what you like Jao.
written by hummus, January 04, 2009
Jan 4, 2009 0:32 | Updated Jan 4, 2009 1:37
Hamas moves on Fatah 'collaborators'
By KHALED ABU TOAMEH

The Hamas government has placed dozens of Fatah members under house arrest out of fear that they might exploit the current IDF operation to regain control of the Gaza Strip.

The move came amid reports that the Fatah leadership in the West Bank has instructed its followers to be ready to assume power over the Gaza Strip when and if Israel's military operation results in the removal of Hamas rule.

Fatah officials in Ramallah told The Jerusalem Post that Hamas militiamen had been assaulting many Fatah activists since the beginning of the operation last Saturday. They said at least 75 activists were shot in the legs while others had their hands broken.

Wisam Abu Jalhoum, a Fatah activist from the Jabalya refugee camp, was shot in the legs by Hamas militiamen for allegedly expressing joy over the IDF air strikes on Hamas targets.

"Hamas is very nervous, because they feel that their end is nearing," a senior Fatah official said. "They have been waging a brutal campaign against Fatah members in the Gaza Strip."

Meanwhile, sources close to Hamas revealed over the weekend that the movement had "executed" more than 35 Palestinians who were suspected of collaborating with Israel and were being held in various Hamas security installations.

The sources quoted Hamas officials as saying that the decision to kill the suspected collaborators was taken out of fear that Israel might try to rescue them during a ground offensive. The officials claimed that at least half of the victims were killed by relatives of Palestinian militiamen who were killed as a result of information passed on to Israel by the "collaborators."

Justifying the latest crackdown on Fatah, a Hamas official in Gaza City said that his government had received information according to which Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas had instructed his loyalists in the Strip to start moving toward undermining Hamas.

"We will kill them all if they try to help Israel bring down our government," the official said. "We will hang Mahmoud Abbas and [former Fatah security chief] Muhammad Dahlan in the public square if they try to enter the Gaza Strip aboard Israeli tanks."

The Hamas official said that his security forces had launched a massive "preemptive" campaign aimed at thwarting Fatah's attempts to "spread anarchy and chaos." He confirmed that many Fatah operatives had been shot in the legs over the past few days by Hamas "to make sure that they don't help Israel."

Fahmi Za'arir, a Fatah spokesman in the West Bank, accused Hamas of "executing" a number of Fatah detainees. He said the Fatah leadership knew of at least two Fatah men who were shot dead by Hamas after being released from prison. He named them as Nasser Muhana and Saher al-Silawi.

Za'arir said that several Fatah members who attended funerals of victims of the IAF strikes were severely beaten by Hamas militiamen who accused them of collaboration with Israel.

It was "shameful" that Hamas was directing its weapons and energies against its own people instead of fighting against Israel, the spokesman said.

The decision to place Fatah operatives under house arrest was issued by the much-feared "Internal Security Apparatus," which reports to the Hamas-controlled Interior Ministry in Gaza.

The order, which was delivered to the Fatah activists on Thursday, reads: "You are forbidden from leaving your home for 48 hours unless you want to attend Friday prayers. Anyone who violates the order will be punished."

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satelli...cle/ShowFull
...
written by asp, January 05, 2009
"That gentleman ran the country with iron fist, but at least it had good educational system, health service, equal rights for women and jobs for people. He also gave asylum to Palestines providing them with jobs. "

i dont know , joao, that seems to be the stock answer many people give down here to justify fidel (health and education), for sure im not implying in any way that you feel that way too , about fidel.but, i detect in some parts of brazil , a knee jerk support of the palitinian cause, in many cases , just because isreal is supported by the usa (again im not acusing you of doing this, just noting that i seem to see this coming out). while news reports in brazil do show that hamas has been bombing isreal relentlessly, the political talking heads dont alude to that at all and just condemn isreal.

you see, about health in iraq under sadamm, what about the "oil for food " scandal, where huge amounts of money was being skimmed off the top , that was meant for the health problems of the poor children caught up in the embargo . i seem to remember people screaming bloody murder at the usa for being responsible for 200,000 thousand deaths each year of children in iraq, under hussein, because of the embargo.if he was skimming off all that money, he was really responsible for those health problems in iraq that led to the deaths of all those children...or was it all just hype ? i dont forget when people scream bloody murder at the usa (which i restate i dont acuse you of in any way, just wondering at the "heath and education" mantra ive heard so much down here) and then we all find out it was bulls**t

what good is "health and education " if underneath is brutal dictatorship? the same question for cuba ...

Saddam
written by Shelly1, January 06, 2009
but at least it had good educational system, health service, equal rights for women and jobs for people. He also gave asylum to Palestines providing them with jobs.


Joao,

My father-in-law lived in many different Arab countries during his tour with B.A. Before Saddam Hussain took over, yes, Iraq women and children (everyone for that matter) had excellent education. When he took over, that was part of the history, why do you think there are so many Iraqis in Europe (England and France especially) and the U.S.?

Saddam was a egomaniac, his sons constantly raped women and children. The point of the whole discussion should be: are we safer now than we were before? What will happen to Iraq once the troops leave? Will crime and terror rule?

I think we are up to something really sinister in the coming months. I think Iraq will become the next Afghanistan, even worse, a Pakistani state!

The biggest mistake, America will pay for that later on, was overthrowing a known enemy. I rather deal with the known than the unknown.
America will pay later on
written by Shelly1, January 06, 2009
Since I live here, I do fear what will become of Iraq and the consequences of rogue actions by Bush the idiot. Obama will pull out the troops and we'll see chaos reign. If the U.S. is so worried about spreading democracy to Mid-East, then it should make sure that democracy begins at home first.

The world has had enough of hypocrites! Since we cannot undo the past, it would be wise to have Sunni, Shias, and Kurds rule their country with equal representation. Will it ever happen? I don't have much hope and I am afraid we have opened the pandora's box.
hummus
written by Shelly1, January 06, 2009
You know as well as I know that both Fatah and Hammas are terrorist organization. The Palestinian people voted for Hammas and now they are unfortunately paying for the mistake.

I am against killing women and children. Hammas probably fired the rocket near the U.N. school knowing that civilians would be attacked. It is an attempt by this terrorist organization to use the international community to stop Israels incursion into Gaza.

The world doesn't have the balls to deal with terrorists. Israel has done for the past 7 months everything to avoid a war. They withdrew from and moved the population from Gaza and gave the olive branch back to the Palestinians. What was their choice?
Hammas fired how many rockets into southern Israel?

I hope Hammas is weakened enough and may Fatah party will take over. Beware, you can't trust anyone these days.
correction
written by Shelly1, January 06, 2009
...are a terrorist organization...Israel's incursion (put apostrophe, but didn't see on my tiny screen)..perhaps the Fatah party will take over...

Hummus, do you think that peace between Israel and "Palestine" is a reachable goal?
Adriana
written by Shelly1, January 06, 2009
Again, I don't like to judge, but Powell, Amorin, and Garcia have to take responsibility for their actions and non-actions. Their jobs are to serve the people and their country with honesty and integrity! Like Osvaldo did.


I agree with you. However, do you believe Powell was somehow pressured at gun point to lie? Assassination of known politicians are not unusual in this country. I don't know all the facts, but having seen the man speak and explain himself in front of the cameras, I cannot comprehend the "Blind Obedience" position. Sure he is a career man, but he probably would get much more from telling the truth and being honest with everyone.

I am all for conspiracy theories on this one!
Shelly1
written by João da Silva, January 07, 2009
Hi Shelly,

I wanted to reply to "asp" and have been postponing (blame it on the nice weather we have been having and I am sure "asp" is enjoying it too) and in the meantime you have come out with some interesting feed back on this issue, especially about Iraq!

Mine stance is neither Anti Israel nor Anti American. But "ASP" is right in his comment about Anti Americanism that the recent conflict in the Middle east has generated all over Latin America. I am amazed that the left has taken over this issue as its "cause" and portraying themselves as the "defenders" of the "oppressed". Chavez wanting to expel the Israeli Ambassador to Venezuela, Brazil airlifting medicine to Gaza, etc; In the meantime, Sarko is mediating peace. For me it has all become a joke for ,most of the leaders in the "Western World" are really making political capital out of the conflict, ignoring the lives lost or without knowing how to put an end to it once and for all.

My reply to some of your comments:

Saddam was a egomaniac, his sons constantly raped women and children. The point of the whole discussion should be: are we safer now than we were before? What will happen to Iraq once the troops leave? Will crime and terror rule?


The "Western World" was and is safe with or without Saddam.Now that he is dead and gone and the Americans have built Military bases, the largest embassy in the world in Baghdad and is building an "American University" in that country, we can safely assume that Iraq has become U.S. "protectorate". I see no WMDs being launched from there either at U.S or Israel at any time soon!!

I think we are up to something really sinister in the coming months.


So do I. Iran better watch out. smilies/wink.gif

The biggest mistake, America will pay for that later on, was overthrowing a known enemy.


Saddam was an erstwhile friend turned into enemy.To understand it, you have to go back to 1979 when the Shah of Iran was overthrown and the consequent "Hostage Crisis", Iran-Iraq war, Gulf war I, U.N. bloqueade, etc; Though I am not a historian, I like to keep track of history.

Hummus, do you think that peace between Israel and "Palestine" is a reachable goal?


Hummus may think that it is a reachable goal, but I do not think so.The probability is the same as UNASUL nations becoming a formidable world power. It is convenient and profitable for all the parties to maintain the status quo.

Sure he is a career man, but he probably would get much more from telling the truth and being honest with everyone.


Honesty is not exactly a best policy in politics!

I am all for conspiracy theories on this one!


Our Specialist in "conspiracy theories", DnB, is AWOL and probably on an extended vacation. Lets wait until he returns. smilies/cheesy.gif

I take this opportunity to wish you and your family a great 2009 full of joy, health and prosperity.
Joao
written by Shelly1, January 07, 2009
Dear Joao,

Happy New Year to you too! Hope you and your family-everyone here for that matter, will have a safe and a peaceful 2009 ahead.

The "Western World" was and is safe with or without Saddam.Now that he is dead and gone and the Americans have built Military bases, the largest embassy in the world in Baghdad and is building an "American University" in that country, we can safely assume that Iraq has become U.S. "protectorate". I see no WMDs being launched from there either at U.S or Israel at any time soon!!


I agree partially with you on this one. As you know, the situation on the ground deteriorated rapidly after a few months in Iraq. What was the American strategy? They didn't have a good solid plan. The Americans thought they would be greeted as liberators, when that didn't happen, they didn't have "plan B on the table". Now, with the American troops leaving sometime in the next few years(According to P.M. Gordon Brown, he vowed to send the British troops back home by the end of May 2009) chaos and violence will return. That is my bet, I truly hope I am wrong on this one.

Being a protectorate is not the same as having high number of troops on the ground. The U.S. cannot financially keep two wars going on at the same time and they cannot keep their man/women on the kind of schedule they are in. The best way to break a mind of a soldier is to keep him/her away from home. That is common psychological knowledge.

As you may have read on the news story (I tend to read the BBC American news is totally biased and for Israel. Even tough I am in favor of Israel defending itself, I want to be able to get unbiased news), Hammas was getting their weapons from Egypt (maybe other Arab nations were also helping them???). Now, unless you have a firm hand in government-Saddam provided that, we'll see more insurgency and perhaps terrorist organization will take over cities like Tikrit, Sadam's birth town, Kirkut, Mosul, and other cities where the U.S. and British troops had problems in the past.

There are plenty of terrorist organizations willing to control and/or cause chaos in Iraq. Saddam was an avid supporter of the Palestinian cause. Hammas and Hezbollah could well infiltrate and cause more problems for the Western world. So, therefore I believe that with the troops gone or diminished to pre-surge numbers, Iran could cause considerable problems for the U.S.

I like history as well. Looking back, Carter made a terrible decision when he asked the Shah's top military commander not to fight the Ayatollah. Big mistake! One has to take a look at history with a telescope to be able to figure out the relationships that shape today's society. Once again, the U.S. again made a terrible mistake, however only time will tell.

Keep a copy of this conversation, I am sure we'll be back to it at some point!


The Western world was never safe. The U.S. and Europe always worried about being attacked by terrorist organizations. The U.S. has 9/11 but the U.K. has 07/07. Spain and France have been attacked by terrorists. Separatists and religious fanatics are terrorists, not militants! We in Brazil have our fare share of problems that our government choses not to deal with. Look at what happened in Rio and Sao Paulo last year. The Ivory Coast, Angola, and other African nations are also in turmoil. We are not safe, we are somewhat safer, but how long it will last? Again, I hope time will disprove my theory.



anything I said above later on turns out to be true, then the world is certainly not safer.
Joao-one more thing
written by Shelly1, January 07, 2009
Honesty is not exactly a best policy in politics!


Quite right Joao, that is why I NEVER TRUST A POLITICIAN. Let it be a Brazilian, an American or any other country!
Shelly
written by Adriana A., January 08, 2009
You are right when you wrote, "I don't know all the facts, but having seen the man speak and explain himself in front of the cameras, I cannot comprehend the "Blind Obedience" position."

I guess my use of the term "Blind Obedience" is out of context. I was just trying to explain Joao that I understand his position on Powell and Amorin that in politics is not like math (2 2=4) the result you can always count on; in politics, every operation the result is unknown.

I accept that, but it should not be used as a justification, and I dont think Joao is justifying their bad deeds he is just being realistic.
After all, I must confess, I am a dreamer! "...You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one..." Imagine-Lennon
Adriana A
written by João da Silva, January 08, 2009
I accept that, but it should not be used as a justification, and I dont think Joao is justifying their bad deeds he is just being realistic.


You read me right, Adriana! I am just realistic. Years ago someone used the word "Pragmatic Diplomacy". This is what the Brazilian government is following and Amorim is just a messenger and that is the reason I am not hard on him. Probably deep in his heart he knows that this "pragmatic diplomacy" can easily backfire but by the time it happens, he would have retired from our Diplomatic Service with full pension!!

However, in the case of Powell, it is quite different. He was a Vietnam veteran and a retired General (with full pension). Must have known that war is the result of failure of diplomacy. He belonged to the Republican party and hence nominated as a sec of state. I think his political ambitions got into his head and that was the reason for his "blind obedience".

Re Shelly´s comments:

As you know, the situation on the ground deteriorated rapidly after a few months in Iraq. What was the American strategy? They didn't have a good solid plan. The Americans thought they would be greeted as liberators, when that didn't happen, they didn't have "plan B on the table". Now, with the American troops leaving sometime in the next few years(According to P.M. Gordon Brown, he vowed to send the British troops back home by the end of May 2009) chaos and violence will return. That is my bet, I truly hope I am wrong on this one.


I was intensely following up the events in Iraq since the invasion for about 3 years. There was this American reporter of Washington Post who wrote a book titled "Imperial Life in the Emerald City". I read the excerpts of it over the Internet. He confirms that there was really no Plan B !!

Well, Rumsfeld left the government a long time ago, so did Powell to subsequently endorse Obama. Bush and Dick Cheyney are leaving on the 20th. Saddam is long dead and gone. Is the world safer now ? According to Fitzpatrick, "Brazil 2009-The year of living dangerously". My premonition like that of Shelly tells me that the apt title would have been "World 2009-The year of dangers"!

Have a great 2009, Adriana. It was good to hear from you too.
yeah, joao,im enjoying the weather !!
written by asp, January 08, 2009
sorry, forgot what i was giving an opinion on...i dont think i want to remember....ahhhhhh

about isreal, gaza...both sides have plenty of blame...
asp
written by João da Silva, January 08, 2009

sorry, forgot what i was giving an opinion on...i dont think i want to remember....ahhhhhh


Better not remember. Just bear in mind that the summer is going to be short and get maximum out of the good weather.

about isreal, gaza...both sides have plenty of blame...


Finally you learned from Ch.C about the infamous Swiss neutrality,eh? smilies/cheesy.gif

The ocean near your home must be warm by now.
Joao
written by Adriana A., January 08, 2009
Have a great 2009 for you too!
Hope you, Shelly, Augustus, asp, Forest, Ric, and others, even Costinha -I know, he teases a lot of people in here, but he said that he does volunteer work, so we can give him some credit- can continue to make valuable intelectual contribution to this forum in 2009!
After all, We are all trying to understand Brazil, and it's not an easy task!
the summer is short
written by asp, January 09, 2009
yeah, joao, the summer is short . if i had know it was this short,i may never have tried to live here, but, i came in october, thought it was like barra de tijuca in aug sept, with the winds whipping off the ocean , but,i didnt know june , july aug and were cold , and,sept, oct , nov wet and clammy...but once i past a few months, i knew i could raise my family here...

yeah, adriana, i hear you...i sometimes think this forum is what is hard to understand about brazil...reading and talking about these issues leaves out so much about what is really good about brazil
Joao LOL
written by dnbaiacu, January 09, 2009
Our Specialist in "conspiracy theories", DnB, is AWOL and probably on an extended vacation. Lets wait until he returns.


smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
Yes, I have been on "break".. The articles lately have been BORING.
There's over 40 comments on this thread and it is much dissection over something so simple.

1) The U.S and Great Britain in conjunction with greedy corrupt Suaudi
sheiks, partnered up to dig up oil.
2) As "moral" ( actually very AMORAL) front the "State of Isreal" was
created to maintain a strategic western influence in the Middle
East to protect this newfound wealth in oil. Neautralize the region.

3)The TRUTH is biblically the God of the Bible spiritually "divorced" the Jews and allowed the temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed by the Roman armies. Jesus prophecied and warned of this event advising his followers to leave when they saw certain signs he detailed for them. Over 1 milliion Jews perished during the capture.And many were taken captive. End of relationship with the God of the Bible and the "JEWS".
4) No "JEW" can trace his or her history accurately to the people of the area at the time of that event or prior to it. As the records were destroyed along with the temple.
5) DEFINETLEY the "JEWS" from Europe who were subsequently imported to this "creation of a state of Isreal" have nothing to do with the indigenous people of middle east. Religion was used as a front. The migration of European Jews to the middle east was an act of pseudo-compassion on the part of its sponsors , the U.S and Great Britain and any other western country standing to benefit from the proceeds from oil.
6) Now when you just KICK PEOPLE OFF OF LAND they have inhabited for thousands of years . And fill it with a people whose religion is dyametrically opposed to the beliefs of the indigenous peoples, what do you THINK is going to happen?

7)This is all KARMIC.. LIES NEVER WIN in the end.. EVER!!! By DESIGN.
Everything is backfiring now. This is what we are seeing. And eventually the very same governments the USED religion to obtain their own selfish interests are going to TURN ON RELIGION in what they think is their best interests.
What's funny is that this is all PROPHECIED. And really simple..
Read Revelation chapters 17 and definetely all of 18 word for word
All this analization of the subjection is a fine exependiture of energy. Maybe some find it entertaining. But it is really simple.
Yes,,, there IS a conspiracy against the human race. The trick is to not have you believe that. ESPECIALLY THOSE THAT THINK THEY ARE SO SMART, INTELLECTUAL AND INFORMED. Someone illiterate can HEAR this and SEE it ,if their eyes are spiritually opened. GOD at work there smilies/wink.gif The rest will think it isn't that simple. And many more will just bury their heads in the sand as if it will go away.

Just watch how many will mock these words if they dare. smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif
A completely normal and expected reaction.

If you even THINK you might be a BELIEVER the time is urgent to compare your present beliefs to what the Bible really teaches and evaluate the facts for yourself. Everything is about what you believe. And as foretold BELIEFS will be FRONT AND CENTER. This is the very threat that exists.
What's so funny is that you really can't be upset with the majority of imported european Jews in Isreal. They actually believe they have rights to that area. As if God was really behind all the corruption that enables to be there. Emotion over the Holocaust has defied reason. They are too be pitied. smilies/sad.gif smilies/sad.gif
But the runners of the game know what time it is. And day of reckoning in coming.....
...
written by hummus, January 09, 2009
Mock, mock, mock, mock. You are an intellectual idiot and biblically and historically ill informed. Read the Peel Commission Report 1937:The Peel Commission of 1937 found Arab claims that Jews stole their land as baseless. Land shortages were due more in part to massive Arab immigration to Palestine from other Arab countries than to Jewish land purchases. Chapter IX of the Peel Commission states,

“The shortage of land is due less to purchase by Jews than to the increase in the Arab population. The Arab claims that the Jews have obtained too large a proportion of good land cannot be maintained. Much of the land now carrying orange groves was sand dunes or swamps and uncultivated when it was bought.”

Whereas the British resigned much of Palestine to be “uninhabitable,” the Jews took this “barren wasteland,” drained the swamps and “made the desert bloom.” Many of the Jewish-owned citrus groves at the time were situated on sand dunes viewed by the British as “uncultivable.”

It is without doubt that the Jews, in their quest to purchase and acquire more land, did not take any land from Arabs unlawfully. Furthermore, Arab absentee landlords living elsewhere and real estate brokers sold their land to Jews at an inflated cost.

As of today, not a single person representing the pro-Palestinian view has been able to contradict this reality using any official documentation, land data or historical records.

Furthermore, the Peel Commission admitted that Arabs on the whole, benefited from a growing Jewish presence in the land as they brought economic prosperity and stability to Palestine and its inhabitants.

“The Arab population shows a remarkable increase since 1920, and it has had some share in the increased prosperity of Palestine. Many Arab landowners have benefited from the sale of land and the profitable investment of the purchase money. The fellaheen are better off on the whole than they were in 1920. This Arab progress has been partly due to the import of Jewish capital into Palestine and other factors associated with the growth of the National Home. In particular, the Arabs have benefited from social services which could not have been provided on the existing scale without the revenue obtained from the Jews.”

Up until 1948, the Palestinian Arab population grew approximately 120 percent. This population growth occurred in tandem with Palestinian Jewish population growth and for reasons often overlooked. Jewish immigration and subsequent economic growth in Palestine led to increased Arab immigration from other countries by those seeking economic opportunity. Many Arabs at the time wandered around the Middle East seeking sustenance and a means to support their families.

Arab claims that they were displaced from their homes after living there generation after generation for thousands of years were baseless and fabricated. Most Arabs living in Palestine prior to 1948 had come from Arab lands in search of subsistence and had not been in Palestine for more than a few years.

In addition, the Jews cleared unused land, drained swamps in the Jezreel Valley and surrounding areas and in doing so, helped rid the country of its widespread malaria problem. They established medical clinics, improved water supplies and developed better solutions to deal with sanitation. All this, directly led to better health, higher standard of living, longer life expectancy and a lower infant mortality rate.

It is clear that Arab complaints against Jews were, for the most part, politically motivated, and did not reflect the reality in Palestine at the time. In comparison to their lives in Arab countries or the situation in Palestine before massive Jewish immigration, Arabs saw a consistently increased improvement in their standard of living, overall health and improved economic stability - all while cultivating their own land.


Part Dieux
written by hummus, January 09, 2009
You are as ignorant of historical fact as you are in Christ's words. You say. "The TRUTH is biblically the God of the Bible spiritually "divorced" the Jews and allowed the temple in Jerusalem to be destroyed by the Roman armies." This is completely made up by you. Jesus prophecied and warned of this event advising his followers to leave when they saw certain signs he detailed for them. Yeh sure! There have been Jews living in Palistina since the time of Christ. As to, 4) No "JEW" can trace his or her history accurately to the people of the area at the time of that event or prior to it. As the records were destroyed along with the temple. That is utter rubbish. Those for example that are of the tribe of Levi are known for example, as Isaac, son of Benjamin, son Jacob, son of Aaron The Levite. Every unsimilated Jew knows his father's father' father's name. Just as Christ could trace his lineage. Nobody pretends to be a Jew. The Jews have been killed and slaughtered merely because they were Jews, why would any Jew living pretend to be a Jew. As to records being kept in the 2nd Temple or did you mean the 1st Temple? It must have been a lot of scrolls listing millions of people over thousands and thousands of years. Your intellection is pathetic ranting. And karma. Give me a break. We are to assume that you are have attained enlightenment? You have no grasp of the words you use or the things you say. One thing you say is quite true. That Israel is the begining and end of the demarcation of East and West. If you have been there you would see the demarcation of Eastern and Western Civilizations is the Jordan. On one side Western Civilization acts on the environment, turns dessert into orchards through drip irrigation; and on the other side of the Jordan, 'as Allah wills so shall it be.' You do not understand the significance of any of this. The philosophy of 'so Allah wills, etc' has massive over population, endemic disease, subordination of women, Sharia law, which includes crucifixion. You sir are a fool! You do not understand the concept of cultural osmotic pressure, that regions of higher concentration create a force, osmotic preasure, to move into regions of lower concentration. In the end of times you will be Chinese. And there will still be a Levite. I refer you to the Canticle of Lebowitz.
Hummus...
written by dnbaiacu, January 09, 2009
Alot written, but nothing actually said....

Just watch what happens.

Everything you wrote just implies the Palestinians have grievances over nothing. That everything was all fair square and legal.

My point is simply that religion (all those involved in this instance being FALSE) has been used by governments to justify their political and economic interests. This is NOT news.

I never did imply there were "Jews" pretending to be "Jews". We all know that anyone can convert to Judiasm.

At any rate we will all watch and see if the MESSIAH that the Jews are STILL waiting for COMES to save them in their hour of need. smilies/wink.gif smilies/wink.gif

The bottom line is Isreal was created for a strategic presence in the Middle East. The ones who carried out that plan could and can care less about its' religious significance beyond the point where it benefits THEM as we will all see in our lifetime.

Everything I am saying will be on CNN or the History channel at some point because Judiasm, just as has happened with Christianity (false) and Islam , will be EXPOSED!

I can't even believe you came back with all of that. My comments may have sounded "ignorant" because it was so simple. And SO believable. The truth is that way.

Why are you even defending the situation? It is full of corruption from the top down.
Show where God DIDN"T SPIRITUALLY DIVORCE ISREAL. It's all through the Bible symbolically and otherwise. This is why Jews only think the first five books are valid. The rest of the Bible shows how vainglorious and corrupt they "the JEWS" became as a group.

And what was this?......
Those for example that are of the tribe of Levi are known for example, as Isaac, son of Benjamin, son Jacob, son of Aaron The Levite. Every unsimilated Jew knows his fathers fathers name .Just as Christ could trace his lineage


FYI. I am was obvious saying that NO ONE AFTER the Romans demolished the temple and records can trace their lineage accurately to Jews. LEAST of all European ones.
Most already know why so many in Europe were so "hasty" to adopt Judiasm" anyway. It was MONEY MOTIVATED. The nobility hid their money from each other within the "persecuted and ostracized community".
I'd want to be a Jew myself! smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif
...
written by hummus, January 09, 2009
Nobody in their right mind converts to Judaism. You are either a Jew or you are not, its like being black, you are either black or you are not, you either possess the DNA or you do not.

Quote from Charles Krauthammer - The Weekly Standard, May 11, 1998

"Israel is the very embodiment of Jewish continuity: It is the only nation on earth that inhabits the same land, bears the same name, speaks the same language, and worships the same God that it did 3,000 years ago. You dig the soil and you find pottery from Davidic times, coins from Bar Kokhba, and 2,000-year-old scrolls written in a script remarkably like the one that today advertises ice cream at the corner candy store."

You sir are a moron.

587 BCE Babylonian Destruction of the first Temple.
538-333 BCE Persian Return of the exiled Jews from Babylon and construction of the second Temple (520-515 BCE).
333-63 BCE Hellenistic Conquest of the region by the army of Alexander the Great (333 BCE). The Greeks generally allowed the Jews to run their state. But, during the rule of the king Antiochus IV, the Temple was desecrated. This brought about the revolt of the Maccabees, who established an independent rule. The related events are celebrated during the Hanukah holiday.
63 BCE-313 CE Roman The Roman army led by Titus conquered Jerusalem and destroyed the Second Temple at 70 CE. Jewish people were then exiled and dispersed to the Diaspora. In 132, Bar Kokhba organized a revolt against Roman rule, but was killed in a battle in Bethar in Judean Hills. Subsequently the Romans decimated the Jewish community, renamed Jerusalem as Aelia Capitolina and Judea as Palaestina to obliterate Jewish identification with the Land of Israel (the word Palestine, and the Arabic word Filastin originate from this Latin name).

The remaining Jewish community moved to northern towns in the Galilee. Around 200 CE the Sanhedrin was moved to Tsippori (Zippori, Sepphoris). The Head of Sanhedrin, Rabbi Yehuda HaNassi (Judah the Prince), compiled the Jewish oral law, Mishna.
313-636 Byzantine
636-1099 Arab Dome of the Rock was built by Caliph Abd el-Malik on the grounds of the destroyed Jewish Temple.
1099-1291 Crusaders The crusaders came from Europe to capture the Holy Land following an appeal by Pope Urban II, and massacred the non-Christian population. Later Jewish community in Jerusalem expanded by immigration of Jews from Europe.
1291-1516 Mamluk
1516-1918 Ottoman During the reign of Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent (1520-1566) the walls of the Old City of Jerusalem were rebuilt. Population of the Jewish community in Jerusalem increased.
1917-1948 British Great Britain recognized the rights of the Jewish people to establish a "national home in Palestine". Yet they greatly curtailed entry of Jewish refugees into Israel even after World War II. They split Palestine mandate into an Arab state which has become the modern day Jordan, and Israel.

Who 'owns' Israel. You speak like a fool. Ownership goes to the one that conquers the land by war, apparently.

You know nothing about Jewish lineage. It is an 'oral' tradition, passed on from father to son. The 5 Books of Moses were never written down until the Babylonian Exile, it was always transmitted orally. If you do not know what you are talking about it would probably be better if you said nothing. It is better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and leave no doubt. The trouble with a fool is that they do not know what they do not know.
Hummus
written by João da Silva, January 09, 2009
Mock, mock, mock, mock. You are an intellectual idiot and biblically and historically ill informed.


Would you mind stop calling Dnb an intellectual idiot? I am very disappointed that you can indulge in such name calling of a person who has written some brilliant essays before on this site. I agree that you have made some good comments about 50% of the population being functionally illiterate and 95% being technically so in other threads. But that does not give you the right to start throwing "merda" on Dnb.

BTW, why should people who criticize the foreign policies of U.S and Israel be automatically classified as Anti American and Anti Jewish respectively? Dnb is not only a studious scholar of the "Book", but also an expert on Geopolitics with very balanced views on both and I would rather wait till other commentators express their opinion, before calling him an idiot (which he is not).

Thank you
dnbaiacu
written by João da Silva, January 09, 2009
5) DEFINETLEY the "JEWS" from Europe who were subsequently imported to this "creation of a state of Isreal" have nothing to do with the indigenous people of middle east. Religion was used as a front. The migration of European Jews to the middle east was an act of pseudo-compassion on the part of its sponsors , the U.S and Great Britain and any other western country standing to benefit from the proceeds from oil.


Quite an important point you made! I am not sure that "Hummus" grasped it, but never mind.

Hummus made an important point too:

Nobody in their right mind converts to Judaism. You are either a Jew or you are not, its like being black, you are either black or you are not, you either possess the DNA or you do not.


If it is based on DNA tests, they would find that OBL, One eyed Mullah Omar, King Abdullah, Ariel Sharon, Menachim Begin, Omert, Sadat, Saddam, Yarafat, Golda Meir, etc; are all "Primos" (or as the German Brazilians like to pronounce the word as "Brimos")! It is time for Angela Merckel, Michelle Bacharelt, Cristina Krischner,etc to take DNA tests and pronounce themselves as a "Brimas". smilies/grin.gif

It is indeed a Mad, Mad, Mad world. With all these excitements, even Ch.c might decide to take the test and convert himself into Judaism. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
...
written by hummus, January 09, 2009
In ordinary usage the word idiot means:

1. A foolish or stupid person.
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive

But I am not using the word colloquially: col·lo·qui·al (k-lkw-l)
adj.
1. Characteristic of or appropriate to the spoken language or to writing that seeks the effect of speech; informal.
2. Relating to conversation; conversational.

I am using it to mean someone who is uneducated or ignorant of a specific thing; not as a general condition.

Idiot: From O.Fr. idiote "uneducated or ignorant person," from L. idiota "ordinary person, layman," in L.L. "uneducated or ignorant person," from Gk. idiotes "layman, person lacking professional skill."


I do not care if someone is ignorant, it is their problem. The comentary was specious;

spe·cious (spshs)
adj.
1. Having the ring of truth or plausibility but actually fallacious: a specious argument.
2. Deceptively attractive.

I do not care if someone is anti Jew, anti Israel, anti Black or anti American. It is not my problem. It becomes a problem when it becomes an action. When Hamas shoots 3,000 rockets at Israel in 2008 it has become a problem. An existential threat. There are people trying to annihilate Israel and every Jew in Israel. I am not a propagandist I am an historian. I have stood on the Temple steps of Herod in Jerusalem, lived a year in the Wilderness where Christ wandered; crossed the Sea of Galilee, and walked upon its waters and got my shoes wet.


ig·no·rant (gnr-nt)
adj.
1. Lacking education or knowledge.
2. Showing or arising from a lack of education or knowledge: an ignorant mistake.
3. Unaware or uninformed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Middle English ignoraunt, from Old French ignorant, from Latin ignrns, ignrant-, present participle of ignrre, to be ignorant, not to know; see gn- in Indo-European roots.]
Joao...
written by dnbaiacu, January 09, 2009
smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

I am in the least worried about someone calling me "ignorant". Funny how the true colors of those that are show quite clearly. All ending up in my defense.
smilies/wink.gif
Hummus
written by dnbaiacu, January 09, 2009
Thanks for the history lesson. You further prove the point and miss it at the same time.

We can agree the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 CE. Biblically and spiritually that is all that needs to be said. End of relationship (biblically speaking) between God and the Jews as a group ( no one is to be judged individually)
What I am trying to understand is the "purpose" of everything you wrote.
The point remains that the governments gave erroneous religious basis for the occupation of the land that is now the State of Isreal. And it is backfiring Period! The "Jews" would like to believe they have Divine right to that area but there is nothing remotely Biblical or otherwise to support that. You still have yet to bring evidence.

You run people off of their land , yes you can expect reprisal.

Let's face "Isreal" is becoming isolated. It will become NOTHING. People aren't buying the whole "this is our Holy Land" stuff anymore. Far too much is at stake.
Those that know better are probably already emigrating as we speak. And there is a 50% chance that all of this is being contrived to eclispe what the Obama administration WON"T be able to do to fix the economy any time soon.
Besides, LIKE Catholicism,, Judiasm is heavily infiltrated by powers that NOTHING about the religious aspect of the entity. They are houses divided against themselves. And guess what happens EVERYTIME in that situation?..... THEY FALL. You have the "drunk" in a spiritual sense "believers" and the other half that scam and run away with the money and power.. It's a complete joke! smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif .But sad. smilies/angry.gif smilies/sad.gif And you will be hard pressed to find someone that doesn't agree with me..
It is what it is.
People want "Peace and Security" . And this "Isreal" is slaughtering innocent people.
What those people need to do is hop back on planes and go back to where they came from. The Holocaust is over. Yet they seem intent on starting another one. smilies/wink.gif
Btw,, The Fed is obviously not worried about Isreal. And behind the scenes we don't even know if they are connected do we? The Fed is printing up fiat to buy the U.S literally. A trillion dollar deficit! What a joke!
So where does "Isreal" really stand a chance????? smilies/shocked.gif smilies/shocked.gif smilies/shocked.gif smilies/shocked.gif
Just like you are calling me "ignorant",, like "Isreal" like to call everyone else that doesn't "sympathize" with them, we will soon see who gets "played" in the end.
It's prophetic Hummus .. Accept it.
Religion and all its bloodthirsty ways are DOOMED.
All the KILLING Isreal thinks it has the right to do in "defense" of itself was IMPALED with the Christ. True spirituality isn't violent anymore (never really was,, just God sponsored the nation of ancient Isreal to protect itself to protect the "seed").
The defense of a true believer is LOVE. And God does the defending beyond that. Christ tried to teach that to the "Jews" that had him impaled preferring to release a hardened CRIMMINAL.!!!
If anyones DNA could prove they were a Jew of Hebrew descent they should be ashamed.

Those "settlers" are unwelcomed there . It is basically a closed case. And if they'd just all go back to where they came the world would be a much safer place. smilies/cheesy.gif. God knows they have the money to put everyone back on a plane. FIRST ClASS! smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
...
written by hummus, January 09, 2009
I can prove my DNA, my sons DNA, my parents DNA, and my grandparents DNA as well as all my aunts and cousins to be Ashenazie DNA. Your,
If anyones DNA could prove they were a Jew of Hebrew descent they should be ashamed. Makes no sense. You speak as a penitent that has never been crucified for his faith, never been crcified and resurrected. Never died for God, never would. Your words are mere words they are not discriptions of things you have done or know. They are things you have read about and believe. . You have only read about being impaled, but have never actually died and been resurrected. That is of course what the phenomenon of Satori, enlightenment is. The Jews that are in Israel paid for it, bought the land its in the Peel Commission Report, bought it from the Ottomon Turks for cash. The Arabs that were there were squatters, like Favellans. They did not own the land they worked on it as tenant farmers. Read the history. Though I think your opinion is more important to you than information. Pure spirituality as you espouse has nothing to do keeping Hamas rockets from hitting your daughters. It is self defense. Astrong offense that is the greatest defense. A father does what is required to defend his family. The 'settlers' are settling on land that was bought and paid for. There are no palestinian deeds to ownership, they were not there for thousands of years, never were, read the Peel Commission Report 1937, but you are not interested. You are interested only in your opinion it seems. You have reached conclusions that are specious and you are quite content with them. Israel was given atomic science by the French in 1957 to help with the Suez War. Do you really think Israel would hesitate to use that technology to defend itself under existential threat. The Western World has never had a positive opinion collectively of the Diaspora Jew, of course Einstein was an exception, and Karl Marx, and Oppenheimer, great scientists, violinists, composers, writers, film makers, doctors, surgeons, but for you Christ tried to teach that to the "Jews" that had him impaled preferring to release a hardened CRIMMINAL.!!! The man that was freed was a revolutionary In his 2007 Encyclical Spe Salvi, Pope Benedict XVI mentions Barabbas in this context: "Jesus was not Spartacus, he was not engaged in a fight for political liberation like Barrabas or Bar-Kochba" (paragraph 4).

Christ said do not through pearls before swine. The pearls are the wisdom of the Torah and the swine are you, the gentiles. You follow a rabbinic scholar that had nothing but disdain for you. Paul of Taursus created a religion of neo Mithraism, born on xmas, crucified on easter, rose from the dead in three days, three magi came following a sign from the heaven. You are not interested in fact, but fiction. You are for your team the not the Jews team. Its the same team you have been rooting against and killing for 2000 years. The problem is the Jews will not bend to your belief that man is God that is one thing a Jew would never do, bow down before another man. We bow down only to God not to man.

Christ taught that the work is now, that all you bring before God is the good you did. That is the greatest good, the meaning of life is good deads. But you people are crazy, you believe man is God, that there is Heaven and Hell and there is the Devil. There is only God, it is monotheism, not tritheism, not duo theism, and God is God, not the son of man (BTW the son of man is a first century expression referred to many men, in fact all men are the son of man). or Mithra, or the Mesiah which did not exist in the thousands of years of Abraham and Moses, that comes out of the Babylon Diaspora along with duality. It is not Jeudaism. And besides Jeudaism is merely the religion of the Jews. It is not about religion it is about that Jews are the original inhabitants of Jeudea, that is why it is called Jeudea, or rather the people from Jeudea Jews. Your sophistry is a cliche 'a house divided cannot stand' there is no end to your foolishness. The trouble is you and a million other people believe it. But 10,000 people calling a horse a cow does not make a horse a cow.

What is prohetic is the same people with the same god in the same place with the same DNA are still there after 3000 years, and you are cheering for the destruction of the people of Christ. Christ is first a Jew. Paul is second a Jew and first a Paulist bring the 'word of god' (which he made up) to the gentiles, people like you. You would kill Christ because he was a Jew just as quickly as Hamas would. It is not the man with you people it is the label Jew. You are a generalist, a racist in your reasoning. Your philosophy is neither science nor Christian. It is made up. And gentiles pay retail.
...
written by hummus, January 10, 2009
"Thanks for the history lesson. You further prove the point and miss it at the same time."

You were indeed given a history lesson and you failed to learn from it. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit. What point is "further proved" and what is "missed at the same time". Your writing like your
thinking is plodding.

"We can agree the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 CE. Biblically and spiritually that is all that needs to be said. End of relationship (biblically speaking) between God and the Jews as a group ( no one is to be judged individually)" You sound drunk. The Romans destroyed a Temple in 70 CE, though the First Temple was destroyed as well by the Babylonians. "End of relationship (biblically speaking)" What is "biblically speaking"? "between God and the Jews as a group" What are you talking about? "No one is to be judged individually"? The Covenant of Abraham is given individually the sign of which is circumcision. The covenant is absolution of sin once a year on Yom Kippur. There is no judging, but self judging. Man's responsibility is to strive to understand and to fulfill the Law. He repents on Yom Kippur, fasts and in confession of his sins before man and God he is made clean with the sounding of the Shofar. It is the responsibility of each man to face God. For the Jew life is about living a rightous life consistent with the Torah. Rightousness is defined by this. It is not relative. It is not about getting something by being Rightous, it is about being Rightous because that is 'the way'. The Lord gave the 'ways of rightousness' to the people of Israel. From Abraham to Moses. He gave other things to other peoples, but he gave the Torah to the children of Abraham. God never abandons Israel, the individual abandons the Torah and the Way. You either falling of the teachings of the Torah or you do not. One leads you to light and the other away from light.

Israel is not interested in sympathy. It is interested in not being shot at by a 3000 missiles a year randomly aimed at civilians. It is interested in not being kidnapped, threatened with existential annihilation.

"Religion and all its bloodthirsty ways are DOOMED." What Religion, what bloodthirsty ways, what DOOM?" Doomed to what? When? Your argumentations require proof. You do not offer proof either because you do not know how or what it is. You are not specific and you reach unsupported conclusions. You end by giving a sophomoric opinion at best; almost uniformly specious at best.



We can agree the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 CE. Biblically and spiritually that is all that needs to be said. End of relationship (biblically speaking) between God and the Jews as a group ( no one is to be judged individually)


We can agree the Romans destroyed the temple in 70 CE. Biblically and spiritually that is all that needs to be said. End of relationship (biblically speaking) between God and the Jews as a group ( no one is to be judged individually)
Love... The Best Defense. (Hummus)
written by dnbaiacu, January 10, 2009
I want to help you save some energy, as I was helped by our fellow poster Joao.

1)Click on the quote icon to place a chosen quote from a previous post that you want to comment on.

2) Copy the quote of your choice
3)Click in between the quote bars within your comment box
4)Paste you comment within.
This should help because your comments are long enough you should spare yourself the energy of rewriting others comments esp since you don't agree with them..Why torture yourself? smilies/wink.gif

First let me make it very clear that I staunchly "believe" that the Bible in its entirety is the inspired word of God. My comments are always based with that belief as a reference.
Now I will address some of your comments:
can prove my DNA, my sons DNA, my parents DNA,

Whatever your DNA can prove is irrevelant.. I never questioned that.
I question "Jews", proseletyzed or natural born claiming "Divine" right to the lands constituted as the "state of Isreal" today. Biblicallythat is simply not the case. Please try to show me otherwise before "throw out some pearls"
The Jews that are in Israel paid for it, bought the land its in the Peel Commission Report,


No one wants to hear about "commissions" , "reports' , deeds , titles , reciepts, treaties, WHATEVER. Throughout history all types of these bogus documents have been drawn up to justify annahlating and stripping Native Americans North,Central and South of lands they inhabited for centuries. Not to mention the Slave Trade and a host of other atrocities.
The Peel Commission is "toilet paper" the work of thieves. It has no more moral worth than the people who drew it up.

I didn't have time to copy your quote. But are you telling us the Jews view "Barabbus" (or however you spell it) as some type of HERO now, to justify having Jesus impaled?... This is interesting news to me.. Funny the lengths people go through to cover things up smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
And you quote "Pope Benedict" on top of that!!!!???? smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

Which brings me to let is be known that I as a Bible Believer know full well that CHRISTMAS , EASTER ect are all pagan based festivals contrived long after the death of Christ and Paul for national interests. Any basic encyclopedia will tell you this. And most people know this but choose to participate anyway for sentimental and traditional reasons. The fault is their own. Not of Christ teachings. December 25th is not Christ birthday and the truth has been out about that.
Also Jesus IS NOT GOD according to the Bible
He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins. 15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him. Colossians 1:13-16
Christendom has been scamming the ones that don't "study" the Word for themselves for millineums now.
The "doom" that I speak of is in Revelation.. Chapters 17 and 18.. The governments are no longer going to court the WHORE "false religion" (Bablyon the Great) Which includes ALL THE RELIGIONS ,.. fake Christianity. Judiasm, and Islam and everything in between.
FYI for observers.
 And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. 18 And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”Revelation 17:15-17

Yes ,, God does hold his covenant with "spiritual isrealites" . Nothing to do with cutting your foreskin now. But of course since Jews traditionally don't recognize the New Testament, that goes over your head. smilies/wink.gif

I advise you to take a spiritual approach to your beliefs. They will ultimately lead you to the truth. God is not behind the violence on either side in the Middle East. Everyone is wrong. This is simple to believe. Truth is simple.

Follow the "Torah" yourself.. You will get more light.
Stop calling others "ignorant". And tell your brethen to seek peace whatever the cost. That's what Abraham almost gave his son up Isaac for. Sacrifice.
LOVE
Have a good day.
As you believe in the Divinity of the Bible here is the original, the source of The Apocalytic Vision of The Book Of Revelations.
written by hummus, January 10, 2009
The War Scroll
This section of the scrolls presents the Essenes' apocalyptic vision of the final battle between the Sons of Light and the Sons of Darkness. This kind of apocalyptic sensibility was a discernible strain of Jewish thought at the time of Jesus; some scholars detect this sensibility in Jesus' message about the coming Kingdom of God.
The Dead Sea Scrolls:

Armageddon: the war to end all wars. These words stir up images of inevitable conflict, the final focus on the dark side of human nature, the ultimate catharsis that ushers in an age of peace. All of these issues come to a head in the War Scroll, a text that describes the eschatological last battle in gory detail as righteousness is fully victorious and evil is forever destroyed. This vivid account gives us insight into how, at about the time of Jesus, some Jews conceived of Armageddon.

The first lines of the scroll (1QM 1:1-7) lay the framework for a three-stage conflict between the Sons of Light--that is, members of the Yahad[1] (see 1QS 3:13)--and the Sons of Darkness. The first battle finds the adversaries led by the Kittim of Assyria. (Although the name Kittim is often used in the scrolls as a reference to the Romans, its basic sense seems to have been "archetypical bad guys.") The Kittim of Asshur come in alliance with the biblical enemies Edom, Moab, Ammon, and Philistia. Cooperating with this unholy alliance are the "violators of the covenant": Jews who had spurned the message of the Yahad and in so doing aligned themselves with the Sons of Darkness. The second stage expands the war's influence to the Kittim who dwelt in Egypt, and then finally to the Kings of the North.

Although this war is said to extend over forty years, the writer of the scroll was particularly concerned with the details of the very final day of battle. After six bloody engagements during this last battle, the Sons of Light and Sons of Darkness are deadlocked in a 3-3 tie. In the seventh and final confrontation "the great hand of God shall overcome [Belial and al]l the angels of his dominion, and all the men of [his forces shall be destroyed forever]" (IQM 1:14-15). Along the way, in true apocalyptic fashion, the scroll goes into elaborate detail Concerning the battle trumpets (2:15-3:11), banners (3:12-5-2), and operational matters (5:3-9:16). Priestly prayers for the various phases of the conflict are recorded next (9:17-l5:3). Finally, the seven savage engagements of the final day of battle are detailed (15:4-18:smilies/cool.gif, culminating in a ceremony of thanksgiving on the day following the victory (18:10-19:14).






The Source. The Divine Word as it was written during the life of Christ. Continued 2,000 years ago.
written by hummus, January 10, 2009

As with biblical representatives of apocalyptic literature, Ezekiel 38-39 and the Revelation of John as pertinent examples, one can easily lose sight of the primary purpose of the work. It is not to be found in the intricate and often mysterious details of the text. Rather, the author was concerned with the tribulation and hopelessness that his readers were currently experiencing. He built his encouragement on a biblical theology of rescue: the defeat of Goliath at the hand of David (1QM 11:1-2), and Pharaoh and the officers of his chariots at the Red Sea (11:9-10). Coupled with this aspect was his understanding that great suffering was part of God's will for the redeemed. Indeed, God's crucible (17:9) was seen as a necessary component of man's existence so long as evil continued to exist in the world. Ultimately, God's purpose was to exalt the Sons of Light and to judge the Children of Darkness. The message is one of hope. In the face of such perverse evil, the Sons of Light are encouraged to persevere to the end. God was preparing to intervene and bring a permanent solution for the problem of evil.

The scroll itself is one of the first seven texts found by the Bedouin in 1947. Nineteen columns of text are preserved, lacking only a few lines at the bottom edge and the final page or pages of the compositio.

For the In[structor, the Rule of] the War. The first attack of the Sons of Light shall be undertaken against the forces of the Sons of Darkness, the army of Belial: the troops of Edom, Moab, the sons of Ammon, the [Amalekitesl, Philistia, and the troops of the Kittim of Asshur. Supporting them are those who have violated the covenant. The sons of Levi, the sons of Judah, and the sons of Benjamin, those exiled to the wilderness, shall fight against them with [ . . . ] against all their troops, when the exiles of the Sons of Light return from the Wilderness of the Peoples to camp in the Wilderness of Jerusalem. Then after the battle they shall go up from that place a[nd the king of] the Kittim [shall enter] into Egypt. In his time he shall go forth with great wrath to do battle against the kings of the north and in his anger he shall set out to destroy and eliminate the strength of I[srael. Then there shall be a time of salvation for the People of God, and a time of dominion for all the men of His forces, and eternal annihilation for all the forces of Belial.

There shall be g[reat] panic [among] the sons of Japheth. Assyria shall fall with no one to come to his aid, and the supremacy of the Kittim shall cease, that wickedness be overcome without a remnant. There shall be no survivors of [all the Sons of] Darkness.

Then [the Sons of Rig]hteousness shall shine to all ends of the world, continuing to shine forth until end of the appointed seasons of darkness. Then at the time appointed by God, His great excellence shall shine for all the times of e[ternity;] for peace and blessing, glory and joy, and long life for all Sons of Light. On the day when the Kittim fall there shall be a battle and horrible carnage before the God of Israel, for it is a day appointed by Him from ancient times as a battle of annihilation for the Sons of Darkness. On that day the congregation of the gods and the congregation of men shall engage one another, resulting in great carnage. The Sons of Light and the forces of Darkness shall fight together to show the strength of God with the roar of a great multitude and the shout of gods and men: a day of disaster. It is a time of distress fo[r al]l the people who are redeemed by God. In all their afflictions none exists that is like it, hastening to its completion as an eternal redemption. On the day of their batlle against the Kittim, they shall g[o forth for] carnage in battle. In three lots the Sons of Light shall stand firm so as to strike a blow at wickedness, and in three the army of Belial shall strengthen themselves so as to force the retreat of the forces [of Light. And when the] banners of the infantry cause their hearts to melt. then the strength of God will strengthen the he[arts of the Sons of Light.] In the seventh lot the great hand of God shall overcome [Belial and al]1 the angels of his dominion, and all the men of [his forces shall be destroyed forever].


dnbaiacu
written by João da Silva, January 10, 2009
Follow the "Torah" yourself.. You will get more light.


Ah, you have heard about "Torah" also, besides mastering "Al Koran" ? smilies/cheesy.gif

Now I am very curious. What did you major in the college? smilies/shocked.gif smilies/tongue.gif

Hummus
written by João da Silva, January 10, 2009
You are a good Yid, Hummus and honest. I do appreciate the fact. BUT...BUT..., lets hope that this recent "Conflict" does not blow into a bigger one.I have a bad feeling about it. For the sake of your Kids in the Services, hope that the next target is not Iran.

You are not exactly a Mossad material, old boy. smilies/cheesy.gif It didn't take me long to figure you out smilies/wink.gif

Have a great summer and cheer for peace and love. smilies/smiley.gif

BTW, Dnb is a great debater!
FYI
written by Forrest Allen Brown, January 10, 2009
is it just me .
In all the countries i have been to where islam is now and other religons were .
they destory all other religous sites and build there moqus on top and claim that something happend there so there fore it is there holy site and infadles are not allowed .
they even go to the point of tearing down any and all other sites that offend them .

IT IS THERE GOOL THERE LIFES DREAM TO DESTORY ALL OF THE OTHER RELIGONS .
From The NY Times:
written by hummus, January 11, 2009
Hamas, with training from Iran and Hezbollah, has used the last two years to turn Gaza into a deadly maze of tunnels, booby traps and sophisticated roadside bombs. Weapons are hidden in mosques, schoolyards and civilian houses, and the leadership’s war room is a bunker beneath Gaza’s largest hospital, Israeli intelligence officials say.

Unwilling to take Israel’s bait and come into the open, Hamas militants are fighting in civilian clothes; even the police have been ordered to take off their uniforms. The militants emerge from tunnels to shoot automatic weapons or antitank missiles, then disappear back inside, hoping to lure the Israeli soldiers with their fire.

In one apartment building in Zeitoun, in northern Gaza, Hamas set an inventive, deadly trap. According to an Israeli journalist embedded with Israeli troops, the militants placed a mannequin in a hallway off the building’s main entrance. They hoped to draw fire from Israeli soldiers who might, through the blur of night vision goggles and split-second decisions, mistake the figure for a fighter. The mannequin was rigged to explode and bring down the building.

In an interview, the reporter, Ron Ben-Yishai, a senior military correspondent for the newspaper Yediot Aharonot, said soldiers also found a pile of weapons with a grenade launcher on top. When they moved the launcher, “they saw a detonator light up, but somehow it didn’t go off.”

The Israeli Army has also come prepared for a battle both sides knew was inevitable. Every soldier, Israeli officials say, is outfitted with a ceramic vest and a helmet. Every unit has dogs trained to sniff out explosives and people hidden in tunnels, as well as combat engineers trained to defuse hidden bombs.

To avoid booby traps, the Israelis say, they enter buildings by breaking through side walls, rather than going in the front. Once inside, they move from room to room, battering holes in interior walls to avoid exposure to snipers and suicide bombers dressed as civilians, with explosive belts hidden beneath winter coats.

The Israelis say they are also using new weapons, like a small-diameter smart bomb, the GBU-39, which Israel bought last fall from Washington. The bomb, which is very accurate, has a small explosive, as little as 60 to 80 pounds, to minimize collateral damage in an urban area. But it can also penetrate the earth to hit bunkers or tunnels.

And the Israelis, too, are resorting to tricks.

Israeli intelligence officers are telephoning Gazans and, in good Arabic, pretending to be sympathetic Egyptians, Saudis, Jordanians or Libyans, Gazans say and Israel has confirmed. After expressing horror at the Israeli war and asking about the family, the callers ask about local conditions, whether the family supports Hamas and if there are fighters in the building or the neighborhood.

Karim Abu Shaban, 21, of Gaza City said he and his neighbors all had gotten such calls. His first caller had an Egyptian accent. “Oh, God help you, God be with you,” the caller began.

“It started very supportive,” Mr. Shaban said, then the questions started. The next call came in five minutes later. That caller had an Algerian accent and asked if he had reached Gaza. Mr. Shaban said he answered, “No, Tel Aviv,” and hung up.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/11/world/middleeast/11hamas.html?hp



Cont:
written by hummus, January 11, 2009
“It started very supportive,” Mr. Shaban said, then the questions started. The next call came in five minutes later. That caller had an Algerian accent and asked if he had reached Gaza. Mr. Shaban said he answered, “No, Tel Aviv,” and hung up.

Interviews last week with senior Israeli intelligence and military officers, both active and retired, as well as with military experts and residents of Gaza itself, made it clear that the battle, waged among civilians and between enemies who had long prepared for this fight, is now a slow, nasty business of asymmetrical urban warfare. Gaza’s civilians, who cannot flee because the borders are closed, are “the meat in the sandwich,” as one United Nations worker said, requesting anonymity.

It is also clear that both sides are evolving tactics to the new battlefield, then adjusting them quickly.

To that end, Israeli intelligence is detaining large numbers of young Gazan men to interrogate them for local knowledge and Hamas tactics. Last week, Israel captured a hand-drawn Hamas map in a house in Al Atatra, near Beit Lahiya, which showed planned defensive positions for the neighborhood, mine and booby trap placements, including a rigged gasoline station, and directions for snipers to shoot next to a mosque. Numerous tunnels were marked.

A new Israeli weapon, meanwhile, is tailored to the Hamas tactic of asking civilians to stand on the roofs of buildings so Israeli pilots will not bomb. The Israelis are countering with a missile designed, paradoxically, not to explode. They aim the missiles at empty areas of the roofs to frighten residents into leaving the buildings, a tactic called “a knock on the roof.”

But the most important strategic decision the Israelis have made so far, according to senior military officers and analysts, is to approach their incursion as a war, not a police operation.

Civilians are warned by leaflets, loudspeakers and telephone calls to evacuate battle areas. But troops are instructed to protect themselves first and civilians second.

Hummus
written by dnbaiacu, January 11, 2009
Thanks for the information smilies/smiley.gif. I do enjoy getting other perspectives. And there IS much to be learned by from ancient Jewish literature.

When I get exposed to it,,(such as what you posted) it further confirms the dependability of the Bible for me. Everything is pretty consistent with what is the Bible albeit colored in a much more complicated way. The covenant did start with Abraham and the people he sired. Most of which was written among the people has ring of the Truth. Manifestation of the Truth in Christ was to come through the seed of Abraham.
We are "mental" creatures. The battle is for our minds. And Good will prevail in the end, sponsored and promoted by a "kingdom" which hiearchy starts in "heaven". This is the true theme of our existence. Which is why "government" and "beliefs" are apparently becoming more front and center topics. This is our life story. The "experiment" of man ruling himself independently of the Creator. And voluntarily percieving from where His will can be learned. It's work, yes. But we all have 24 hours in a day. We CHOOSE how to prioritorize our time. Another beauty of our existence.

I didn't mean to offend you in any way. What's going on in the Middle East right now is horrific. Just as the Holocaust was. The Slave Trade. And many other atrocities throughout history. But we must admit that it all boils down to beliefs. Is violence and war the answer?
Well Jesus said NO.. Period! So so called Christians and Christianized "kingdoms" that engage in war and support it are dead WRONG! They are NOT following the teachings of Christ. They will pay.
And yes, it is counterproductive for any human or nation to be violent, so that includes ANY belief system that encourages or supports it.

Let's do our part and help others to see that "BELIAL" DOES in fact exist. He's a powerful unseen rebelious spiritual creature that wants us all dead. It is funny how many don't want to see this but they are SILENT on obvious demonic occult activity amongst humans. I don't get the disconnect??? smilies/shocked.gif. But again, it comes down to what you want to believe.
It's definetly the ego I suppose. This need for us to think we are in control or running things. When every one of us is being "led" whether we are cognizant of that or not.
Christ brought "Good News". And we need it!!! Just look at CNN. It's pathetic.! Funny thing though,, "Good News" is bad news to those that don't want to "change". Ironic that that is the international theme because "change" starts within. Just think of how many people wouldn't be so traumatized by todays economic events if they had "changed" within by the power of Christ teachings and not been
Greedy
Uninformed
Not thrifty or savvy with money
signing contracts they don't understand
chronic borrowers
The Bible is concise. It details how to navigate through a "system" designed to stress us out with the intent to kill sooner or later.
Thank God for Abraham... His descendants... Christ... And "spiritual Isreal"
Shalom smilies/smiley.gif
Joao..
written by dnbaiacu, January 11, 2009
Yes I am familiar with the Torah. I am really interested in what people "believe". If you are trying to persuade others to believe in something, it helps to know the foundation from which their beliefs come. You can "build" from there. The key is to always find common ground. There is always some "truth" in religious beliefs. Biblically that is part of the Devils scam. Mix truth with lies. That's why it takes work on the part of the individual to dig more truth to the surface and filter through the lies.
4 if you keep seeking for it as for silver, and as for hid treasures you keep searching for it Proverbs 2:4
Work worth the effort.

smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif I'd never post without being able to substantiate what I say. I state my source. One can take it or leave. Truth is.. like all books, the Bible was "made" for anyone who wants to read it.But it isn't "for" everyone.
It entertains me when I see some spend so much energy trying to "debunk" it. ?????...It is what it is.. If you don't like it , just let it ride smilies/smiley.gif But it hasn't gone anywhere and it isn't going anywhere whether a particular individual or nation wants it or not. Time has proven that. So the "haters" should stand back and think about what they are up against. If you can't "beat it" , join it, or be quiet. This is the intelligent approach.
If God is real. There HAS to be a mode of communcation between us and Him to communicate His will to us. Now if people think the Creator of all things doesn't have the power to make sure His Word is not tampered with "beyond" recognition, then they might as well worship a tree. It really is that simple.
That situation in Gaza is getting so ugly by the day. And it is so obvious that it is during the "lame duck session" on purpose. I wish someone could give more than the obvious insight on that. Nothing is going on without Great Britain, U.S , Federal Reserve Bank , IMF backing. I guess some things will always be hidden for awhile.???

This is going to be very interesting. smilies/wink.gif
dnbaiacu
written by João da Silva, January 11, 2009
That situation in Gaza is getting so ugly by the day. And it is so obvious that it is during the "lame duck session" on purpose. I wish someone could give more than the obvious insight on that. Nothing is going on without Great Britain, U.S , Federal Reserve Bank , IMF backing. I guess some things will always be hidden for awhile.???


You are right.The incoming "Laranja" is keeping his lips tightly closed! I think that he is also clueless. My bet is that we are going to see things getting uglier. Even Joe Biden predicted (much before they were elected) that some international crisis will test the leadership of the new POTUS. Do you remember that?
where is augustus when you need him ?
written by asp, January 11, 2009
que saudades.....
...
written by João da Silva, January 11, 2009
where is augustus when you need him ?


I have been wondering too. smilies/cry.gif
Joao
written by dnbaiacu, January 11, 2009
Even Joe Biden predicted (much before they were elected) that some international crisis will test the leadership of the new POTUS. Do you remember that?


Who could forget? It was as if they "wanted" us to know and accept that "fact". Now that everything is SO predictable , I am really starting to believe that this is a crisis contrived to eclipse the issues of the economy at hand. A "stimulus package" that won't really "stimulate" . And a crisis that impedes world 'peace and security".
But who knows???? One way or the other they got to get people to worship the "beast". There could be a "ray" of light economically speaking that is suddenly threatned by a "security" issue in the which the United Nations will have to mobilize to "save the day".
America isn't "broke" enough yet though. The situation has yet to hit grassroots level. And here in Texas the economy is still stable if not, growing. We "do" have "Bush Intercontinental Airport" here smilies/shocked.gif. And if terrorist wanted to make a statement , this would be the perfect place. I better not put that in the air huh? smilies/cheesy.gif
dnbaiacu
written by João da Silva, January 11, 2009
America isn't "broke" enough yet though. The situation has yet to hit grassroots level.


You are right and I really don't think that it is going to hit the grassroots level. One needs to read the comments of our fellow bloggers like Ch.C and Ric. In fact Ric wrote some comments a few months ago as how U.S can wither the storm.

One way or the other they got to get people to worship the "beast". There could be a "ray" of light economically speaking that is suddenly threatned by a "security" issue in the which the United Nations will have to mobilize to "save the day".


I am a bit skeptical about the role of U.N. to "save the day". They couldn't do much to pressurize both Israel and Palestines for a cease fire.In fact I thought it was a joke that they held an emergency session on Dec 31st and couldn't accomplish much. Probably all the dignitaries went to the Time Square that night to dance with the Clintons. smilies/grin.gif

We "do" have "Bush Intercontinental Airport" here


I did not know about it. But I heard that GWB commissioned an Aircraft Carrier with his Dad´s name. Talking about GWB, the world will miss him smilies/cheesy.gif. He taught us all how the Fish and Human beings can coexist and also how to duck the shoes thrown at him. If he had been 20 years younger, he would have caught the shoes in mid air and thrown right back at that Eye-raqui reporter. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
I don't understand...
written by Adriana A., January 11, 2009
"No one wants to hear about "commissions" , "reports' , deeds , titles , reciepts, treaties, WHATEVER."

I do. I'll see if I can find it online and download it.

"The Peel Commission is "toilet paper" the work of thieves. It has no more moral worth than the people who drew it up."

So if this commission doesn't have any credit, which was based on documents at the time, and people's account, then, isn't your "book" also lacks credibility? Which was also written by people's account, no matter who they were? I don't read your book, but I respect its historical relevence. So I think documents from a given time are also just important as well.

"The defense of a true believer is LOVE. And God does the defending beyond that. Christ tried to teach that to the "Jews" that had him
impaled preferring to release a hardened CRIMMINAL.!!!"

I don't understand...Since I was young, I hear some religious figure saying that. And I always thought, "Well, didn't the Romans also killed Jesus?" What's up with that "I wash my hands" thing? Sorry I don't buy that.
Have you seen the movie called, "Sophie's Choice"? In the movie, Sophie (Meryl Streep)is sent to Auschwitz, upon her arrival a nazi guard asks her -because she looks Aryan- that if she were to save one of her children (she has a boy and a girl) which one she would choose? She answers that she cannot choose, then, the guard grabs one of them, and in desperation she says, "no, take my ----" the guard comes back and grabs her ----. So, now, just for the sake of the argument, Who killed Sophie's child?... Sophie? Or the Nazi guard? Or Hittler? Or... Now, Who killed Jesus?... The Jews? Or the Romans?

"Those "settlers" are unwelcomed there . It is basically a closed case. And if they'd just all go back to where they came the world would be a much safer place. . God knows they have the money to put everyone back on a plane. FIRST ClASS!"

Ok, I did not know about the commission Humus mentioned which I'm going to search and read. But even before that I always thought that the Jews belong there. It only makes sense, otherwise, where do you think they "originally" come from? Africa? Antartica? The Americas? Australia? "Noooo, silly" This is how my three-year-olds (I work with four little people) answer me when I ask something, hummm, lets say, silly.

you guys are so fancy!
written by Adriana A., January 11, 2009
Just so you guys know I did not re-write the quotes, I copyed and pasted them. But I don't know how to put them in these fancy blue comment boxes. I have tryed a couple times, but it doesn't work.
asp
written by Adriana A., January 11, 2009
Sorry I was out of town.

"yeah, adriana, i hear you...i sometimes think this forum is what is hard to understand about brazil...reading and talking about these issues leaves out so much about what is really good about brazil"

I agree with you. I would say instead of just writing about the negative aspects, we could also focus on what is being done to address them.
There is a new term for people like that "intelligent optimists".
We are so used to focus on the negative. I bet there are lots of "intelligent optimists" in Brazil but for sure they are not on the news.
The major TV networks could once a week, show a special program about someone who is doing something related to social justice, protection of the environment, inprovement of the health-care services, teachers that are proactive, honest police officers, and so on.

Can you imagine the positive psychological effect this action would have in the collective mind of the Brazilian population?

It Would be a call to action!
Adriana A
written by João da Silva, January 11, 2009
Just so you guys know I did not re-write the quotes, I copyed and pasted them. But I don't know how to put them in these fancy blue comment boxes. I have tryed a couple times, but it doesn't work.


May be you should ask DnB to give you instructions in his impeccable Portuguese. "Copiar, Colar, Inserir, etc". BUT...BUT..., you know how these people from BA are. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif

He gave the correct instructions (trained by a Southerner)!!!. Except that he forgot to mention that it is the 7th Icon from the left that you have to click. I am repeating his instructions to make it clearer:

I want to help you save some energy, as I was helped by our fellow poster Joao.

1)Click on the quote icon to place a chosen quote from a previous post that you want to comment on.

2) Copy the quote of your choice
3)Click in between the quote bars within your comment box
4)Paste you comment within.
This should help because your comments are long enough you should spare yourself the energy of rewriting others comments esp since you don't agree with them..Why torture yourself?


The quote icon he mentioned is the 7th from left.

The icon image is:



Joao
written by Adriana A., January 11, 2009
Thanks for your help!

When I click on the 7th icon image, this shows up:


I know how to copy and paste, for that I use the right click button. What I can't make it happen is the fancy blue comment box.
What do you do to make the blue comment box appear?
Joao
written by Adriana A., January 11, 2009
I am fouling myself in an open forum smilies/cheesy.gif
I said I could not make the blue comment box appear, and I just did it.
For some reason I thought I had to see the blue comment box while I'm typing my comment, but it shows up after I add my comment. I'm dumb dumb smilies/cheesy.gif
Now I'm happy, I can write the same fancy posts you guys do!
Thanks again Joao and DnB
Adriana A
written by João da Silva, January 12, 2009
I'm dumb dumb


No, you are not.On the contrary you are smart.Because smart people seek for help when they need ,accept the suggestion and thank the one who provided it. smilies/cheesy.gif

Should I describe the dumb ones? smilies/wink.gif
The battle of Two Demons: Palestians vs Israelis - Augustus view
written by Augustus, January 12, 2009
Any individual familiar with my views on any issue involving Islam, Moslems, and Fundamentalist Religious states, will surely confirm that I would never consider, even hypothetically, either defending or sponsoring of the Palestinian cause; yet, undoubtedly brain washed by BBC America’s biased reports regarding the brutal (albeit necessary) Israeli response to incessant Palestinian Rock attacks, I must concede that Israel may be approaching the point where their acts could be deemed “excessive”.

On the other hand, playing the Devil advocate, similar to classical psychological case study whereby some abused children turn into abusers when they reach adulthood, because the Jewish segment in Palestine has been oppressing the Palestinian and occupying some of their claimed lands for about six decades, I can partially “empathize” with those who classify the continues rocket attacks from “Hamas” into Israel as justified.

The bottom line is that both sides are to blame, both elements consist of horrible, intolerant individuals who will never, EVER accept any settlement and thereby impose upon the world the nefarious spill-over consequences of their never-ending, pointless, irreconcilable struggle. The issue turns particularly more distressing, when one takes into account that the main underlying reason for their endless conflict is the ever imposing, always terrifying and unquestionably ridiculous issue of religion.

Consequently, because about 60% of Moslems and Jews are intolerant religious maniacs, as far as I am concerned, their self-destruction in endless bloody warfare (Mohamed versus Moses) should be henceforth ignored by the rest of the world; The main powers should leave both parties alone to their “own devices”, granting them the right to destroy one another if they so wish … As far as I am concerned, such deed would represent a great favor for the rest of the Planet…

As already mentioned elsewhere, if we were to eliminate ALL religions TOMORROW, by NEXT WEEK this planet would move significantly closer to World Peace
Augustus
written by João da Silva, January 12, 2009
The battle of Two Demons: Palestians vs Israelis - Augustus view


Thanks for climbing down from your high pedestal and expressing your forceful views, Milord. I am sure both "ASP" and "DnB" are also pleased to hear from you.

The main powers should leave both parties alone to their “own devices”, granting them the right to destroy one another if they so wish … As far as I am concerned, such deed would represent a great favor for the rest of the Planet…


The key word is "Main Powers" and I don't think that they would leave them alone considering the strategic importance of that region. I would have preferred if Brazil had remained neutral.BUT.....BUT.... our "rulers" could not resist the opportunity to demonstrate their "statesmanship".

I was nice to hear from you and have a great 2009.
JOAO / Dnb / ASP
written by Augustus, January 12, 2009
Please accept my (very belated) best wishes for the Anno Domini 2009!
May Jupiter & Minerva enlighten your pathways
Cheers!
LOL
smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/smiley.gif
Augustus
written by João da Silva, January 12, 2009
Please accept my (very belated) best wishes for the Anno Domini 2009!
May Jupiter & Minerva enlighten your pathways
Cheers! LOL


Thanks. Now you sound like a real Limey.Better go back and read "Around the World in 80 days" by Juliano Vernez. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
Joao....LOL
written by dnbaiacu, January 12, 2009
he would have caught the shoes in mid air and thrown right back at that Eye-raqui reporter


Wasn't that HILARIOUS.. The first time I was ever PROUD of Bush.. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

He is "gangster"! smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
Augustus...
written by dnbaiacu, January 12, 2009
Good to hear from you! smilies/smiley.gif

Your comment gets 5 stars in my book ( for all that's worth) It just stated the moral facts without taking any real side. Great! All the way to the end , when you said eliminating all religions would be the first step to world peace.
This my friend is EXACTY what is going to happen. And by "INTELLIGENT DESIGN" smilies/wink.gif ( I know. You don't agree with that, but watch all of this develop)
The main powers should leave both parties alone to their “own devices”, granting them the right to destroy one another if they so wish … As far as I am concerned, such deed would represent a great favor for the rest of the Planet…

Wow! You brought up a very interesting possible scenario. ?????

All I know for sure is Isreal and the "Jews" are taking the stage front and center with what is going on. The global community is going to look at it for what it is. Atrocities based on religious beliefs. And just pure corruption in an institution that should be anything but.
They have already exposed "Catholicism" as the worlds largest pedophile club.,among other things
Islam , as being violent and irrationally chauvanistic., among other things.
Judiasm... has yet to be exposed. But Joao made an interesting diagnosis of the condition.
Maybe Jesus summed it up
YOU hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about YOU, when he said, 8 ‘This people honors me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. Matthew 15:7

HMMMMMM?????.....
"the bottom line is both sides are to blame..." my sentiments also, augustus
written by asp, January 13, 2009
yeah, we need some balance in here to counter the heavy scriptures talk...happy new year to you to , augustus

well, joao, the new york times said our home is one of the 44 best places to visit in the world...but all the influx of tourists is bringing that ranking down for me ( 2005-2006 were the real magic years where i live , its all gawking dudes now , looking for the goddesses who have abandoned here for riozinho, but, these little bikinis with glitter in them , or animal prints ,are knocking me out)
asp
written by João da Silva, January 13, 2009
well, joao, the new york times said our home is one of the 44 best places to visit in the world...but all the influx of tourists is bringing that ranking down for me ( 2005-2006 were the real magic years where i live , its all gawking dudes now , looking for the goddesses who have abandoned here for riozinho, but, these little bikinis with glitter in them , or animal prints ,are knocking me out)


I agree with you and wish our Politicos will stop promoting the f**king (excuse my colorful language)tourism. I saw some pictures of the garbage strewn all over your beach during the New Year "festivities". It is a shame. Unfortunately we have to put up with the "savages" till the end of February this year. Then the beaches and the fine looking women are all for us,my dear fellow. Patience is the keyword. smilies/wink.gif

Thanks for motivating Augustus to come out of his recluse. Never mind DnB´s quotes from scriptures. He has good grasp of other religions also and I enjoy reading them, even though he is from TX/BA. smilies/smiley.gif

In the meantime, you make "hay while the sun shines". smilies/wink.gif
yeah, joao, the garbage shots were very devastating...
written by asp, January 13, 2009
unbeleivible and painful...

nothing against dnc or hummus,they can talk about scripters all they want, just, we need the balance that augustus can deliver
Balance
written by dnbaiacu, January 14, 2009
nothing against dnc or hummus,they can talk about scripters all they want, just, we need the balance that augustus can deliver


Augustus does bring balance. smilies/smiley.gif He comes from a completely different angle and arrives at the same conclusion "scripturally".. Religion needs to be done away with. (False Religion)
Humans will always "believe" in something. It is the way we are "wired". The problem is getting everyone on the same page.
That won't happen this side of Armageddon. But the U.N. will try to make it happen by creating a huge anti-God campaign. Of course that is going to backfire. You can't stop people from believing how they want. Many will continue to kill and die for their seperate causes. And the governments will continue to label "whomever" they wish as "Terrorists" for not conforming to their will, whatever it may be.
Anarchy in general.
In the end those that had decided to search for and live by Truth will survive this series of climatic "Intelligent Design" inspired events.
To embark on the "search" is a CHOICE of what to do with 24 hours a day we all have.
actualy, dnc, its time to reveal my religion
written by asp, January 14, 2009
since ive read the various opinions and beleifs of various people here about their beleif system, its time to spout out mine....

for me personaly, with all the turmoil in the world , especialy the middle east,the fact they are each coming from thier beleifs in their gods, i find these beleif systems frustrating and unfullfilling to really help me understand why in the name of their gods they want to kill and blow each other up.

i found that the discovery channal , wild beasts on the plain savanaugh, dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, reveals all the real answers to why people are trying to destroy each other. it makes it plain as day , as clear as a bell.

so , there was a time that there was 2 discovery channal episodes a day on cable and 2 national geographic docus on a day. all of a sudden with so much information coming to me about the species of the planet, and, their habits of survival, fighting for females and territory ,hiarcial order in each clan, the real desighn started coming to me.

this is a religion born out of modern times, the cable tv, the internet information, youtube. people in ancient times didnt have this. their scriptures only cover certain aspects, its not complete, or as relevant to these times as it could be.

but, seeing the various species of the planet acting out the dramas that seem to be inside the very being of the human species, a vast understanding of why things are the way they are started to really come home to me in a way a university student could never grasp studying one species. all the answers as to why things are the way they are in the world are in this vast incredible design

i am the jesus christ of my new religion, these insights came to me, and, they represent my old testament

the new testament became appherant by going through one special year, where on my beach, the gathering of some of the most beautiful women anywhere, started going beyond mere admiration of feminine beauty. it has diminished a liitle since then, but, having that year put me into a zone of realisation that seeing and admiring the sensuality of many beautiful women in one space causes unbeleivible peace , well being and good will to all men.

there is nothing else that causes such a deep feeling of that magnitude, the thing all these sciptures promice,is fullfilled on a brazilian beach.

its important for women to understand they just substitute when i say women for men. and gays can do the same for thier preference. the god of my religion instilled in us all the ability to apreciete the obgects of our desire, to focus on the sesuality and it generates release stress . and, totaly puts one in a feeling of well being.

im not talking about hitting on , or, trying to hook up sexualy. then ,it becomes a differant thing. its just the basic act of being there, "worshipping" sensuality and letting it come in your life

i have come back from the beach and felt such a releif from the horrors of day to day stress and hiarcial battles.there has to be lots of women, to get the total effect, seeing how wonderful my god has made these obgects of my desire.

so, i have my old testament for all the life lessons that really tell the truth about what is happening in the world and i have the new testament for the way to higher conciousness , understanding and peace and good will to all men...i beleive very deeply in it...i will fight for it...

and, after reading you conspiricy theories, i find it doesnt shrink in any way next to your beleifs....
asp
written by João da Silva, January 14, 2009
Thanks for enlightening us all with your long essay, Vizinho.

i am the jesus christ of my new religion, these insights came to me, and, they represent my old testament


I am glad that the New Jesus Christ is my neighbor. smilies/wink.gif

BTW, our distinguished, honorable and dynamic blogger from Houston is not DNC, BUT.....BUT..... is DNB. It is an abbreviation for DnBahiacu

Cheers smilies/wink.gif
you are welcome , joao
written by asp, January 15, 2009
just think, this is a religion you can be a couch potato to see the old testement , then, go to the beach to worship...people who dont live on the beach could look at it like a nescasary trip in their lifetime, like mecca for muslims...this is a religion for the people, the common man...

i must admit that this understanding of being near naked women and how it can make you exaulted, was first cultivated in new york when i took dance classed at louis falco, the cheoreagrapher for the film fame and kiss by prince.

they actualy had co ed dressing rooms where you could admire the genitilia of the opisite sex. id come out of those dance classes bouncing off the walls and cement of new york. i was on to something but just didnt realise the spirituality of it...

speaking of dancing, i hear there is going to be a phenominal afro brazilian dancer, a two time world music billboard charting artist , doing a special un publicised performance at angeloni beira mar on feb 21 at 7:30 ...im going to be there with bells on...that is the culture i live to see,but dont see enough down here...if you dont go, tell your colleagues its a rare treat going on ...
ASP / JOAO - Belief systems - the futility and absurdity of the concept
written by Augustus, January 15, 2009
As much as I endeavor to avoid find myself trapped in endless, pointless discussions about what I truly consider "modern mythologies" I was so delighted by reading some of ASP views (some of which I quote below) that I dare considering them modest signs of hope for humanity, in spite of its pathetic majority...
for me personaly, with all the turmoil in the world , especialy the middle east,the fact they are each coming from thier beleifs in their gods, i find these beleif systems frustrating and unfullfilling to really help me understand why in the name of their gods they want to kill and blow each other up.

i found that the discovery channal , wild beasts on the plain savanaugh, dog eat dog, survival of the fittest, reveals all the real answers to why people are trying to destroy each other. it makes it plain as day , as clear as a bell.


As you all know, I have consistently expressed my repulsion towards any so-called “religious beliefs” and shall remain appalled till the end of my days with the persistence of primitive manifestations, such as adoration, worship (let alone fighting, maiming and murdering hundreds/thousands of innocent individuals) over which absurd “god” is the “true one”, for each groups surely will remain persuaded of the “true nature” of his/her divinity…

Although I have recently embraced the “resignation” that enlightened individuals must accept the futility of questioning the unfortunate people who remain shackled to dogmatic fanaticism, watching, with increasing dismay, their recurring spiteful, monstrous deeds on account of their disturbingly distorted logic, whereby their God’s omnipresence and “so-called wisdom” lies behind every issue and event (as justification for their criminal behavior).

Religious fanatics are unlikely to ever be capable of reaching an agreement regarding the nature of their divinity, let alone their “messenger(s)” – generally referred to as a “messiah(s)” or “prophet(s)” – which ranged from a multi-armed female (the symbol of anger in Hinduism), or a Roman terrorist from Judea who was the son of a virgin, or an adopted Egyptian Prince who led a group of slaves through the desert and separates the waters of a sea towards salvation…

It’s BEYOND COMPREHENSION that several hundred millions of allegedly intelligent creatures, who are citizens for high-tech (some of which space faring) nations actually STILL accept these UTTERLY ridiculous (quite frankly LAUGHABLE) notions, abide faithfully to them, and (worse of all) are fully capable (and willing) to actually kill in the name of such absurdities… Do these people truly listen to or watch themselves, as they worship angels and bow several times a day like abject slaves towards Mecca?

Enough with this non-sense! I ‘m just thoroughly sick and tired of this primitive gibberish drivel…

AT LAST.......
written by asp, January 15, 2009
balance has been restored to this thread...(no one sais it like you, augustus)
Good to have you back Augustus.
written by dnbaiacu, January 15, 2009
I enjoy your logic from a different angle. smilies/smiley.gif

I'm also feelin "asp" on the euphoric affect creation can have on us. The urge to unite with your "complement". Yin and Yang, so beautifully designed.

If people developed true spirituality the world would not be in the condition it is. Fortunately one does not have to wait on the rest of the world to achieve peace to work on getting their own peace within.
It all starts with YOU. smilies/smiley.gif
Joao.....Lol
written by dnbaiacu, January 15, 2009
smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif

You haven't gotten enough of playing with my user name LOL!
I thought you said it was" dnabainacu"? kkkk Now you have it "dnabahiacu".
I know you know baiacu is a fish. smilies/wink.gif

btw,, keep watch on the prophetic events of the U.N.'s up and coming influence. The writing is on the wall. And Isreal is in the middle. The U.N. will step up to the plate.
Yes, it "has" been a deadbeat organization up till now.. But life will be breathed into it. By the U.S itself. That is already being worked on, which may help explain the ironic maintenance of the dollar in the midst of a near 0% interest rate. There's behind the scenes speculation going on , despite of the dire situation on the surface.

 And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.

Revelation 13:14,15

The beast in verse 13 ( which I didn't copy) is the U.S/Great Britain. They will give "breath" to the "image" of the wild beast. The U.N. is the "image" of the League of Nations. . The prophecy alludes to the fact that anyone "not in the loop" will be doomed.
Isreal will have to back down or get "backed out". Few are obviously in agreement with their bullying.

Watch the show smilies/wink.gif 2009 is ACT 2
A "passing remark" from a "naive & curious" atheist
written by Augustus, January 15, 2009

About 250 million years ago, 98% of all life on Earth was exterminated – such unprecedented devastation clouds & diminish in extreme the MUCH more famous destruction of the (much more “recent”) dinosaurs about 65 million years ago (when merely 65-70% of life was destroyed).

While the catastrophic event of 65 million years ago was generated because of a devastating meteor which the “good” gravity of Planet Jupiter or our natural shield (the orbiting Moon) failed to prevent, the much more, due to the explosion of a Neutron Star located several thousand light years away - but whose pulsating orbit “happened” to be directed towards our planet at the very moment of the explosion – destroyed all organic matter on the surface and the overwhelming majority of any living organisms at the ocean at that time.

Such a close and powerful eruption raises the question of whether an even larger influx of gamma rays, disturbing the atmosphere – and should one happen even closer (let’s say just a few hundred light years away), it could WIPE OUT our entire atmosphere, in the blink of an eye (and were it to happen to day, ALL 6 billion worshiping idiots on Earth today, would just say “I can’t breath” before dying of asphyxiation – LOL). Anyhow, clearly I digress, 250 million years ago, who were the subject of god’s “punishment” bearing in mind that Mankind evolved ONLY about 200 thousand years ago and that its gradual evolution from the apes started about ONLY 2-3 million years ago…

JUST WONDERING… smilies/grin.gif smilies/cool.gif
Augustus...?
written by dnbaiacu, January 15, 2009
Just where are you getting all these figures?

250 million years ago
200 thousand years ago
2-3 million years ago

How can that be verified. ?

Not by fossils. I can seal a penny in a vault.. But that doesn't mean the penny is as old as the vault.

Where do you come up with these numbers?
JUST WONDERING....
smilies/grin.gif smilies/cool.gif
Sounds like an "INTELLIGENT DESIGN" move to me....
written by dnbaiacu, January 15, 2009
Dinosaurs "eliminated" before humans proliferated. Makes sense to me..?
Imagine us living around dinosaurs. NOT LIKELY.

And if we are "evolving" . Why are we getting "stupider"??? We are killing ourselves. And you'd think it would be the other way around.

Are we too "intelligent",, or better yet, "INDEPENDENT" for our own good?
Think about it...
DNB
written by Augustus, January 15, 2009
If you watched scientific chanels or read science magazines instead of your bible (who can verify that??? tell me) you would know where I came out with these numbers!!! Amazed you would even ask
I'm not a scientist, although I did study a lot of chemistry & physics when young
I believe totally in what the scientits tell me
SURE NOT in what some idiotic ancient ignoramus allegedly wrote here & there over 2,000 years ago

1)13.9 BILLION YEARS AGO - UNIVERSE CREATED (following the BIG BANG)

2) 5 BILLION YEARS AGO - OUR SOLLAR SYSTEM WAS FORMED (possibly due within a stellar nursary similar to one detected by HUBBLE 2 YEARS ago (a fabulous picture called - the PILLARS OF CREATION)

3) 4.6 BILLION YEARS AGO - PROTO-EARTH WAS FORMED IN ABOUT OUR CURRENT SOLAR ORBIT

4) 4.5 BILLION YEARS AGO - PROTO-EARTH CRASHED WITH ANOTHER SMALLER PLANET (About the size of Mars) - (this crash generated our Moon following hundreds of millions of years during which our incandescent planet had a ring like saturn - which eventually consolidated to form the Moon)

5) 3 BILLION YEARS AGO - LIFE EMERGED ON EARTH (due to accidental combination of amino-acids among water brought inwards by ICE comments which originated in the OORT CLOUD - - (and stayed with tiny bacterias for eons untiL....

6) 1.6 TO 1.5 BILLION YEARS AGO - FIRST SNOW BALL EARTH EVENT - (out of several ice ages - 2 of them emcompassed the entire planet which remained frozen for tens of millions of years - very few bacteria survived close to volcanos at the bottom of the ocean- AFTER THIS EVENT - LARGER BACTERIA EVOLVED 2 OR 3 TIMES BIGGER THAN THE PERIOD

7) 600 MILLION YEARS AGO - the SECOND SNOW BALL EARTH - (similar event of above) after which COMPLEX live emerged at the bottom of the oceans which triggeed an explosion of life began proliferating

smilies/cool.gif 250 MILLION YEARS AGO - the MASS EXTERMINATION I described under the previous entry

9) 200 MILLION YEARS AGO - REPTILES GETTING BIGGER - FIRST DINOS

10) 65 MILLION YEARS AGO - DINOS EXTERMINATED (some evolved into current birds) - our anscenstors - TINY MAMALS living in fear underground finally emerged

11) 3-2.5 MILLION YEARS AGO - the first sophisticated humanoids - very ape-like - there is a FAMOUS ARCHELOGICAL FIND - 10 YEARS AGO- NAMED "LUCY" OUR ULTIMATE MOTHER... SO TO SPEAK (pitecantropus erektus / pitecantropus eridanus eventually evolved)

12) 600,000 years ago - Neanderthal (very similar to us - which evolved from a diffenrent branch of apes (but also coming form LUCY) APPEARED IN EUROPE

13) 200,000 YEARS AGO - HOMO SAPIENS APPEARED

14) 100,000 YEARS AGO - THE FIRST HOPE SAPIENS ARRIVE IN EUROPE AND START REPRESENTING A CHALLENGE TO THE LESS MENTALLY SOPHISTICATED (BUT STRONGER BUILT) NEANTHERTHAL

15) 60,000 YEARS AGO - THE FIRST GROUP OF HOMO SAPIENS REACH THE AMERICAS THROUGH THE ICE BRIDGE WHICH CONNECTED SIBERIA TO ALASKA (CURRENT Scientific knowledge indicates that several waves of arrivals thourhg that straight - some even claim that because the oceans were shalower - as most of the water resided frozen) - may have hoped by sea as the Atlantic used to have tons of islets

16) 22,000 - THE LAST KNOWN GROUP OF NEATHERTALS DIED OUT - REMNANTS WERE FOUND AROUND GIBRALTAR (the southern tip of Spain - which nearly touches Africa - at the mouth of the Mediterranean

17) 8,000 YEARS AGO - THE FIRST KNOW CIVILIZATIONS EMERGED - and worship of various gods started

1smilies/cool.gif about 5,000 TEARS AGO - SUMMERERIAN CIV
.....
I SUPPOSE YOU KNOW THE REST...

PLEASE DO NOT EVEN TRY TO DISCREDIT ME WITH YOUR STUFF
...
written by dnbaiacu, January 15, 2009
It takes incredible FAITH to believe everything you just wrote except for maybe item #18.

Item #14 is EXTREMELY comical and I won't even bother to copy it.

You see, in addition to false religious beliefs , this mentality as exemplified in item #14 is the very reason the world is in the shape its in.
Beings are products of their enviroment and therefore their "mental sophistication" more often than not corresponds to the needs of survival in that enviroment. As well as the past history of assilmilating technologies usually borrowed from nations and groups they have warred with and conquered.
It really can't even be determined where the "cradle of civilization" began.. Best guess , due to findings would be Sumer. Other than that, since the "tower of Babel", every group that wandered from that locale took existing technologies with them.. And it is safe to assume the most was done with those technologies "earlier" in Egypt. One of the earliest post "deluge" settlements. And this due to the quality of the land and temperate climate. Everyone else was still "wandering" north , further east.. further south and further west of Egypt into west Africa. Hues and general dispositions were evolving , mutating or adjusting to the enviroment as they migrated.
This is simple..
And there is much more evidence to support that than bones from Lucy or any other 2 legged , upright walking creature that scientist claim as prehistoric man. smilies/wink.gif

Why so many millions and thousands of years to get from sticks , stones , caves and clubs. And then all of a sudden in a few thousand years you go from PYRAMIDS to the MOON???????

Something is not adding up with the evolutionary theories.?????

Bottom line is .. men were always intelligent. Created according to their kind.
Dnb - AFRICA was the ultima birth place of Humanoids - Science & Logine alone prevail
written by Augustus, January 16, 2009
Science prevails for me and most other individuals who follow reason and refuse the absurdity of mythological rites from Christians, Jews, Moslems & Hindis…
For one thing, as REPEATEDLY stated, if they had the slightest change of being right, they would be one and the same… Each group is convinced about its own ridiculous, primitive beliefs and oppose the others (sometime conceding a passage or another regarding some historical characters which nobody could dismiss, such as the Roman Terrorist named “Jesus” by Medieval dogmatic (murderous/torturers) Christians.

Whereas science also contains disputes such as recently mentioned the String Theorists in the 1980’s disputed upon the existence of 9 or 11 dimensions, eventually one group prevails and everyone accepted the results based on scientific evidence and sophisticated calculations, and readily the dispute ended: REASON prevails!

I have no delusion (unlike you apparently) that I may persuade you of my views, but I assure you, most reasonable individuals, particularly scholars with FAR superior sophistication to my own, follow MY views and most dismiss YOURS…

Yet, as already mentioned I concede to you at the very least the advantage of drawing “solace” and comfort from your dreamlike, 2,000 year old fairytale… smilies/cheesy.gif

In quantum field theory, one must sum over all possible histories of a system (in this case such system would be “the Earth”). When summing over possible histories (yours, mine, or even somebody else’s), which may be very similar to each other or rather overwhelmingly distinct, one has to decide when two histories are to be considered different, and when they are to be considered the same, in order not to count the same history twice. This decision is coded within the concept of the MEASURE… Because MEASURE (or measurements, in general) are based on highly sophisticated mathematical concepts and, naturally upon logic, I have the unwavering conviction that MY HISTORY prevails… After all, according to scientists “it is useful to have a "measure" whose values are not restricted to the non-negative values or infinity”… Since all parallel universes are infinite, each one of which residing within separate, but parallel “Membranes” (together classified as MULTIVERSE), there is absolutely no place whatsoever for the babbling non-sense outlined in about divine beings within the quaint fairytales of the Bible or the Koran… smilies/angry.gif

Let’s just drop the issue, would you please? You (should) know (by now) that this is “intellectual exchange will lead us nowhere… For I would surely consider eating live-spiders (and I fear nothing more than insects) before granting your beliefs even one inch or millimeter of credibility… I’m so sorry for being compelled to injure your sensibilities with my blatant, honest opinions and steadfast convictions!
smilies/sad.gif
Augustus...
written by dnbaiacu, January 16, 2009
We have an audience here. Over 1900 hits on this thread. And 100 comments as of this one.

I don't get on here just to "debate" as it were with you. I like to give a different perspective backed up Biblically. That is why I include scriptural quotes.. And you quote.....????? WHATEVER.?

Again, the bottom line is,,it takes just as much "faith" to believe what you do as it does one who believes in a CREATOR of the ORDER "you" yourself speak of.


Because MEASURE (or measurements, in general) are based on highly sophisticated mathematical concepts and, naturally upon logic


How could such order come from an "organic soup" .? And such VAST order at that.. There is no existing physical evidence to support that theory. You don't get "order" out of "chaos"

Augustus this issue will continue to rear it's head again and again because people are being killed everyday over "BELIEFS" religious or not.
Religion is being "EXPOSED" and it looks like it is the JEWS turn now.

 And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire.Revelation 17:16

fyi, in Biblical terms "naked" means exposed.

And CNN is doing its job.
It was funny they interveiwed to young college aged women with families in Isreal and Palestine respectively to get their view on the conflict there.
The Palestine girl blew the Jewish girl out of the water. All the Jewish girl whose family had been in Isreal for 35 years could come back with was the "purchased" the land. It was all over her face out whack her argument was.
We all know how these "purchases" [/b) go. smilies/angry.gif
My Native American ancestors were driven off "PURCHASED" land. smilies/angry.gif
My African ancestors were "PURCHASED"! smilies/angry.gif
What a joke hooing and hawwing about the land was purchased. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
The Jewish chick looked SILLY in the end.. A' la CNN. And it is time for Judiasm to be shown up for the arrogant, hypocrital organization that it is.
Again,, no one is to judge "individuals" .But the religious organizations are being judged by God.
Embrace the issue Augustus.. Keep the dialogue going . It is going to be a topic from here on out.
It's PROPHECY ! smilies/wink.gif
REVELATION 18
I would like to know....?
written by dnbaiacu, January 16, 2009
REASON prevails!


How is it 'reasonable" that energy came from nowwhere.???
Since when has "science" shown this???

How do you get "order" out of "chao"?
Since when has science was shown that?
smilies/wink.gif
Faith is interesting isn't it?
dnbaiacu
written by João da Silva, January 16, 2009
We have an audience here. Over 1900 hits on this thread. And 100 comments as of this one.


Very intelligent observation, my lad. Well said. I think that is the reason why our good Lord August should write an article in this site to enable us to express our "inner feelings". You can cite the "Book" and I am sure that our fellow bloggers will be highly critical of him and your good self (ASP, for example). Herr.Ch.c and my humble self will remain "Neutral" (though it is doubtful if Ch.C will exercise his infamous neutrality). Of course Forrest will give his balanced but "colorful views". smilies/cheesy.gif

Lord Augustus can write an article and you can all criticize him (in a democratic manner). He doesn't have to respond to your comments, though.Needless to say that I will be withdrawing my support to anyone that criticizes him without coming out with relevant Facts and Stats.

As for this expression "Bottom line", I suggest everyone stops using and instead substitute it with "Bottom Curvature". I have no doubt that my suggestion will be met with full approval of Ch.C (suffering under minus 9 Celsius) and "ASP" who must be looking at all "derrières" while enjoying favorable weather of 30 Celsius above.

Finally to DnB: There is no way you are going to get this wild bunch to agree with the "Book", BUT...BUT... they may take up your observation of the "Audience" and "Hits" smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif

Cheers to ya all. smilies/cool.gif
yes, joao , i was praying to today...and that is the bottom curvature
written by asp, January 16, 2009
the days will be better in march, but, praying is praying, and, divine, and, brings peace on earth and good will to all men...

oh man, dnb, its too much waste of effort to go into detail at your statements, all i can say is , i agree to disagree with you...

so , let me state, i feel sorry for you. you have to try to connect the dots with your scriptures, many times frustratingly trying to jam square pegs in round holes

im lucky and free...my beleifs allow me to watch wild dogs take down a wildabeast and eat it alive, the beast sticking its head up as if to ask " are you enjoying your meal ?", i see the male lion come in, eat the lionesses cubs and then wait for her to have her season and they mate, i see the alpha female wolf dominate the other females and has sex with all the males in the pack....and, then i understand what is happening in the mideast, and the world ( the wolf part means madonna or something)....

just a couple of points about what you said....its not whether i agree with the israeli girl about purchases, it gives me insight into the dynamic before 1940 in that area. it was complex, not cut and dried like many people make it out to be. let me tell you something else, just about everything we do and have in the mundane plane ( which, before you get zapped into heaven is where you have to dwell) is based on agreement.agreements, contracts etc, are seriously a part of the world and its history, as well as history is written by wars and teriatorial and hiarcial conflicts...unfortunatly

your "united states and great britain " as the whatever evil you conjor up for it to represent, is far fetched and totaly ignores huge amounts of dirty history . this is a dirty world, 42 million people died in world war 2, 20 million people eliminated under stalin, 20 million lost in mao's volta no campo...

some of your ancestors left behind maybe captured some one you know's ancestors and sold them to europeans, who got the trick from arabs who wipe out everyone with 15 million slaves brought out of sub sahara africa...some one you know's indian ancester maybe held the heart of one of your indian ancesters in his hand as it was still beating...

it just makes me want to rush out and pray tomorow and tomorow and tomorow...i am a deep spiritual beleiver ( in my beleifs, dont f**k with it) ....
first one has to beleive in themselves
written by Forrest Allen Brown, January 16, 2009
befor they can beleive in any thing they can't

see touch smell .

the grates sales person of all time .

as far as your so called arrogant words by the jews.
look to all reliogns who have gone to war in the name of
there GOD

you can pray but for what that is the question

get that one correct and you will live in the bliss of your dreams
for ever
To All about the "Book"
written by dnbaiacu, January 17, 2009
Finally to DnB: There is no way you are going to get this wild bunch to agree with the "Book"


That isn't the goal. Remember "the Book" is made for everyone" but it isn't "for" everyone. Just like any other book , you have to have an interest in the subject. The subject of the "Book" is a GOVERNMENT ruled by an INTELLIGENT DESIGNER.
The question is "what happens when MAN acts INDEPENDENTLY of the DESIGNERS GUIDANCE.
We are living in a "CASE STUDY". smilies/wink.gif
praying is praying, and, divine, and, brings peace on earth and good will to all men...

Asp...
Continue to do just that. You said A LOT about governments and their actions throughout history.. That is exactly the point. The "rulers" poop, ejaculate, bleed, sleep, eat, get sick and old and die. Just what have they accomplished these past 6,000 without Divine direction?
You are very observant of nature... Again , "everything" operates within its realm or plane. Men were designed to operate on the spiritual plane. You have this urge to "pray" for a reason. The question remains,, who are you praying to? What is He about? Why did He put us here (if He did) ? And what is the objective? Why is something so intelligent allowing a MESS to continue? And for how long and with what purpose?

first one has to beleive in themselves


Intelligent obversation Forrest. Let's complement it with this text.

26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, Genesis 1:6
 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,1 John 5:3

That is exactly how you "BELIEVE IN YOURSELF". This formula is the formula of 1. smilies/wink.gif


... they may take up your observation of the "Audience" and "Hits"

The point is to be vocal and spread ideas and concepts.. In the end everyone choose. The example of Christ is just to plant "seeds".. Nothing more.. Nothing less.. The Intelligent Designer makes it grow. smilies/wink.gif
It's a HEART thing.. Or in other words,, what motivates you.
The world is in a very critical state and peoples lives "everywhere" are at stake. According to Darwin, it will be survival of the fittest.
What if being fit meant being fit
SPIRITUALLY? smilies/wink.gif
Dnb's so-called designer
written by Augustus, January 17, 2009
It must a very limited designer who deliberately determined that his "creations" should worship "him" differently, follow different mores and even worship other designers... How stupid is that?
Oh... of course, you are going to say Your belief is the true one... JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER DARN WORSHIPER... willing to kill for his "spiritual convictions"...
Again and again and again, it AMAZES ME that people ACTUALLY even CONSIDER believing in that STUPITY... Unless of course, they are illiterate peasants in the middle of nowhere... that I could accept...
asp
written by dnbaiacu, January 17, 2009
Those books I suggested are just to give you the connection between governments and "secret occult societies" .. And these societies heavy involvement in astrology and pyschic activity.
There is far more than human stupidity and ignorance in world affairs. And this is exactly the reason that the "peace" and "security" most of us want so much is so illusive. smilies/angry.gif

Your only defense and guide through this current system is the "Force".
The degree to which you tap into it will determine your level of inner peace and in the end your eternal future ,be it in heaven or here on earth.
And YES. There is an eternal prospect for life here forever on EARTH. smilies/smiley.gif You being a nature lover, should be happy about this GOOD NEWS. It is rarely heard in "mainstream christian theology" but it IS in the BOOK. That Truth is hidden by "design" in false religion. smilies/angry.gif >:
But in many instances once one is exposed to this "knowledge" and makes the connections, things start to make much more sense. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

The Truth is ,, there is really no doom and gloom over the longterm for a BELIEVER that knows and ACCEPTS the TRUTH. smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif

One just has to be spiritually "fit". And it starts with ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE of the Intelligent Designer and His PURPOSE.
Important correction
written by dnbaiacu, January 17, 2009
There is far more than human stupidity and ignorance in world affairs. And this is exactly the reason that the "peace" and "security" most of us want so much is so illusive.


There is far more INVOLVED than human stupidity and ignorance in world affairs.

I really need to learn to "edit" when I blog.. smilies/smiley.gif. It's just that I am working as I do this. smilies/smiley.gif
Silence about the discrepancies, Dnb?
written by Augustus, January 18, 2009
Just how you explain the different religions? Totally different?
All their followers are convinced they are right?
So... what "moral superiority yours has over theirs?

ALL FREAKING MUMBO-JUMBO!!!!!
Fairtales for children....
smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
dnbaiacu: Faith is an action!
written by hummus, January 18, 2009
There are many paths, but one destination!http://i273.photobucket.com/al...Monk-1.jpg
...
written by hummus, January 18, 2009
dnb - what is the meaning for the link?
written by Augustus, January 19, 2009
what an absurd link is that?
A monk in fire?
is that your reply to many different paths - a monk getting killed?
What about the Indian MULTIPLE GODS? explain that
they have those icons at home!!! and worship them daily
the catholics worship status of Virgin Mary, Jesus and St. Geroge
the Orthodox catholix cary icons of Christ
the Muslins workship mohamed as the main profit, and forbig pictures
Pictures are all over the place in hindu religion
whereas the Bhudists meditate without any gods
EXPLAIN THAT!!!! TELL ME
WHY IS YOU FREAKING BIBLE SO SPECIAL?
TELL ME = NOT WITH A MEANINGLESS SENTENCE AND EQUAL MEANINGLESS LINK

YOU KNOW WHAT IT MEANS?

YOU ARE ALL PATHETIC IDIOTS, WORSHIPING CONTRADICTING ABURDITIES!!!
And still having the AUDACITY of questioning scientists!!!!!
ABSURD ABSURD ABURD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW YOUR QUESTIONING SCIENCE APPEARS TO ME AND ALL THOSE WHO FOLLOW LOGIC!!
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE SKELLETONS OF DINOSSAURS???
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE MUCH MUCH OLDER EVIDENCE OF MARITIME LIFE OF SCPECIES THAT ONE HAS NEVER SEEN ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA????
OR OF MARITME SPECIES FOUND ON TOP OF TODAY'S MOUNTAINS
EXPLAIN THAT, TRY!
IT'S REVOLTING, YOUR ABSURD BELIEFS!!! TO FOLLOW A STUPID BOOK ALLEDGEDLY WRITTEN BY A BUNCH OF ANCIENT PRIMITIVES, AT DIFFERENT TIMES, DUELY MODIFIED BY MEDIEVAL PRIESTS.... please, LOOK AT YOURSELF!
Jeez Augustus
written by hummus, January 19, 2009
Science has no meaning. Shakespear said that life is a walking shadow, a tale told by an idiot full of sound and fury signifying nothing. The burning monk is an action to create an effect. To a great extent he so effected Kennedy that indeed the seeds to the end of Vietnam were sown by his action. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The link to the burning monk was to show the shallowness of those that aver faith, belief etc. It is the quintiscencial act. He is acting with complete consciousness. Love, art, music, poetry are all phenomenon that exist outside of science. I most assuredly concure that those that deny science are at best ill informed and at worst are playing with half a deck. Scripture is metaphor. BTW for those that follow the letter of Scripture. Moses parted Yam ha Souf (the Reed Sea) not the Red Sea. The printing of the Red Sea was a typo.
hummus
written by Augustus, January 19, 2009
Enlightening observation...
Yet, I lack the necessary piety to be affected by the sight of burning clerics... In the same way that they were SURELY not affected when THEY BURNED alleged infidels, withes and atheists such as myself...
I have no emotional reaction whatsoever, for SUCH should be the necessary punishment for those (clerics of all religions) who discretely instills hate into the hearts of the populace...
As for you comment that the Bible writings are metaphorical, I can hardly imagine that ignoramus, primitive tribesmen, describing events to a huge population of illiterate peasants, or outright destitute individuals of the Ancient World, would have the frugality of considering modern concepts of "speech and literature"... I beg to differ...
smilies/angry.gif
Augustus
written by hummus, January 19, 2009
The parallel is that Christ and the Monk die the most horid of deaths by choice, inorder to save their fellow man!
Augustus: There is nothing new under the son old sport.
written by hummus, January 19, 2009
"As for your comment that the Bible writings are metaphorical, I can hardly imagine that ignoramus. . ." You are not a student of biblical literature, Augustus. You underestimate man.

As you profess science I suggest you read Jung. Particularly where he speaks of architypes and the universality of the mind of homo sapien sapien since its appearance on Earth 40,000 years ago /-.
August (from dnb)
written by dnbaiacu, January 19, 2009
smilies/smiley.gif I had to put that there because you got me confused for a minute. smilies/cheesy.gif I didn't send the link.
Interesting discussion between you and Hummus.
Just how you explain the different religions? Totally different?
All their followers are convinced they are right?
So... what "moral superiority yours has over theirs?


Man has a built in innate urge to worship something. Even science recently has acknowledge this. They worship all kinds of things. Themselves, patheons of gods, genitalia, money, other people etc. Whatever one worships can become a form of "religion" in itself.

The formula for finding a "superior" way of worship or religion can be approach with the logic that there has to be some type of "fantastic supernatural " event or occurence to have one believe that the knowledge or power that inspired or brought about some event is from a non-human and obviously superior and omniscent source.

This is where the Bible comes in.. In short,, It has PROPHECIES that have been fullfilled to the letter. You have to be truly interested and STUDY the scriptures to convince yourself of that. If the real interest is not there NOTHING is going to motivate you to get the info necessary to possibly convince you of that reality.
Most amateur critics have never studied the Bible. smilies/wink.gif
And that is ok. They are not really interested. But that doesn't mean the Bible has no credibility ,, does it?

It is really simple.. One has to "find" ,"accept" and "appreciate" another "source" as a guide to "superior" religion. A source that one has proven to himself is supernatural. It usually points to the so-called "holy books". Then you just test it for yourself. Are there prophecies? Has it "wisdom" been tried and tested? Does it have the "ring of Truth"?
We tend to know truth when we hear or see it.
The real question is accepting it. smilies/wink.gif
...
written by dnbaiacu, January 19, 2009
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE SKELLETONS OF DINOSSAURS???
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THE MUCH MUCH OLDER EVIDENCE OF MARITIME LIFE OF SCPECIES THAT ONE HAS NEVER SEEN ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA????
OR OF MARITME SPECIES FOUND ON TOP OF TODAY'S MOUNTAINS
EXPLAIN THAT, TRY!


 And God went on to say: “Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls and let flying creatures fly over the earth upon the face of the expanse of the heavens.” 21 And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.Genesis 1:20

Dinosaurs were a part of creation. The Bible doesn't deny that. These are your assumptions.
It is just that with at "logical" reason God wiped them out before man came on the scene. They more than likeley kept the previously created "vegetation" from growing wild. Natures lawn moweres, landscapers and fertilizers. smilies/wink.gif

Augustus,, finding "maritime life" on top of mountains supports evidence of a global deluge... smilies/wink.gif
You see this is what happens when you bash things you haven't really researched. You have drawn all types of erroneous conclusions about what scientific evidence can or cannot be supported Biblically.

Be more open minded smilies/smiley.gif
Light is Good smilies/wink.gif
Dnb - thanks
written by Augustus, January 19, 2009
Thanks for your answer
Naturally, I will never worship any divine being for the several reasons I have clearly overstated.
Yet, you did mention one point with which I may relate
The formula for finding a "superior" way of worship or religion can be approach with the logic that there has to be some type of "fantastic supernatural " event or occurence to have one believe that the knowledge or power that inspired or brought about some event is from a non-human and obviously superior and omniscent source

I suppose this element for me are the AMAZING wonders which Physicians have recently discovered: indescribably tiny particles which “pop” in and out of “existence” as they literally travel, they believe, and I “trust” and “accept” them. Likewise, I'm amazed with Stellar Nurseries, some of which unveiled by the Hubble Space Telescope, not only for their beauty but their significance...

As such, my religion dwells in the “kingdom of Physics”, ranging from “Subatomic Particles” to the study of the Universe, which mingles with Astronomy studying the wonders of the Universe (Cosmology):

- “Physical cosmology”, which is defined as a branch of astronomy, which studies the largest-scale structures and dynamics of our universe; and is concerned with fundamental questions about its formation and its evolution. Cosmology involves itself with studying the motions of the celestial bodies.

- “Subatomic particles are elementary or composite particle smaller than an atom. Particle physics and nuclear physics are concerned with the study of these particles, their interactions, and non-atomic matter.
...
written by asp, January 20, 2009
"They worship all kinds of things. Themselves, patheons of gods, genitalia"( i cant get the blue thing to work)

yes, my religion worships the female body (women can insert the male body ,gays the obgect of their desire)

the acts that make it obvious that something higher than man is involved are , pepe's in 1986-7-8-9 and my current beach in 2006...all tremendous indications that something higher and super natural were involved

since the discovery channal and natgeo are my old testement, it must be a distant cousin to augustus's physics diety
We all admire created things..... (Augustus and Asp)
written by dnbaiacu, January 20, 2009
At least we can agree to this. smilies/smiley.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/smiley.gif

The million dollar question is..

What and Who would give us the oppurtunity to enjoy these things forever? smilies/wink.gif

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Psalm 37:29

For this is what the Lord has said, the Creator of the heavens, He the [true] God, the Former of the earth and the Maker of it, He the One who firmly established it, who did not create it simply for nothing, who formed it even to be inhabited:

so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it. Isaiah 55:11

Further, God blessed them and God said to them: “Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth.” Genesis 1:28
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea is no more. 2 I saw also the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”Revelation 21:3,4

WOW!!! Such GOOD NEWS. If one focuses on it , it can be their reality smilies/smiley.gif
Dnb - pls quit trying to convince me (in sneaky ways) - it will not work!
written by Augustus, January 20, 2009
Dnb - When are you going to realize that the is NO WAY I will come to your "side" of the ideological fence?
you quoted:
What and Who would give us the oppurtunity to enjoy these things forever? The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Nobody will possess the Earth my dear friend... Nobody has ever done it and never will be.
Manking will be exterminated sooner or later... It will just take yet another major cataclysm (many of which have already happened and are bound to re-occur - and the overwheming majority of the - all the "big" ones took place - so far - before manking evolved - earlier than 200,000 years...)
Mankind would survive one of those major natural cataclysms ONLY if we are luck to have started colonizing other planets BEFORE the Earth is hit by another big one....
Even then, naturally mankind will inevitably continue evolving and, particularly if we start living in celestial bodies with distinct Gravity, pressure, and a differrent type of Sun (it could be red, white, or blue) not to mention whether or not such world has a satellite (or such world may even be a satelite itself - circling a gas gas giant in a system with two STARS - such as Alpha-Centauri... (located 4.3 light years away).
Finally, would you please stop (in your messages addressing to me) quoting these offenisive biblical passages? I do not read them! They are (in my eyes) too ridiculous to contemplate... And they make me sad to think that fellow members of my species (other men) in my society, living during the same century ACTUALLY believe in them....
dnb - let's change the nature of our discurse - We must celebrate Obama
written by Augustus, January 20, 2009
Please visit my blog for the latest entry, which was created in order to mark these "historic times" and to praise & celebrate our great new President!
Cheers!
http://augustus-99.blogspot.com/
Augustus
written by João da Silva, January 20, 2009
DnB is a "Pentelho", BUT....BUT.... our "Pentelho". I posted a comment in your blog and hope DnB gets to read it and comment. smilies/cheesy.gif
Joao - Thank you
written by Augustus, January 20, 2009
I just noted your comment(s) to which I have replied accordingly... smilies/wink.gif

As for your rather relevant comments regarding Dnb... I KNOW!!! smilies/smiley.gif

In fact, my reply reminds one of my favorite Brazilian expressions:
"Concordo em sujeito, numero e grau!" smilies/cool.gif
Augustus...
written by dnbaiacu, January 21, 2009
You are funny my friend smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif

It's not all about YOU! We have an AUDIENCE remember. Some think you are an idiot. Some think I am an idiot smilies/smiley.gif smilies/cheesy.gif One end of the spectrum can sound just as silly as the other, depending on the chosen perspective.

Who is "man" to say that mankind will disappear? You probably own or have built a "house". Did you build it for nothing? And would you let tenants "destroy" it before you decide to evict them? There wouldn't be a need to destroy the house . Or for that matter "good tenants". smilies/wink.gif

I don't particularly address my comments to you. I just respond to what you say. Some "believers" are clueless. But not all of us.

btw, I AM NOT CELEBRATING OBAMA.. Nothing against the man. I happen to admire his personality.. "who wouldn't?"
But the trick is to have people BELIEVE all this hoopla is going to bring about "PEACE". I am surprised you aren't getting it yet.
THIS ISN"T GOING TO HAPPEN!
And the "BOOK" prophecies that as they start "saying" it more and more, destruction is soon to follow. In other words NOW is the time to wake up and smell the coffee.
This "black" man is not in office for nothing. This is all deception. Do you really think Americas core has changed? SOME people may want it to. I want it to. But that would involve a GLOBAL change in the collective pysche.
Too many folks believing TOO many different things. Like war and bloody murder. smilies/angry.gif Greed. And racial and national pride smilies/angry.gif
That won't change until people with that mentality are EXINCT.


Nobody will possess the Earth my dear friend... Nobody has ever done it and never will be.
Manking will be exterminated sooner or later


With this mentality one only ends up creating their own destiny. If this is what you BELIEVE. It will come to pass for YOU. smilies/wink.gif
In the end it is all about BELIEVING. This is the point of all the horror that exists in the world.. ERRONEOUS BELIEFS.

I subsribe to the "WORD" because it is GOOD NEWS>
I believe eternal life is possible here on earth depending on what I choose to believe and follow.
I believe I can take part in creating Paradise on earth under the spirit direction of the Son of God.
My mental and physical health is BETTER maintained BECAUSE of these beliefs.
It is great to live LIKE THERE ACTUALLY IS A TOMORROW. smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif
I won't be MENTALLY defeated. So I keep these POSITIVE thoughts in my head. I won't resign myself to the "EXTERMINATION" that you speak of.
Why LIVE like that? smilies/sad.gif smilies/wink.gif
oh I forgot.....
written by dnbaiacu, January 21, 2009
fyi.... for anyone...
Now as for the times and the seasons, brothers, YOU need nothing to be written to YOU. 2 For YOU yourselves know quite well that the Lords day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. 3 Whenever it is that they are saying: “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly upon them just as the pang of distress upon a pregnant woman; and they will by no means escape. 1Thessolonians 5:1-3


Keep listening for those words "PEACE AND SECURITY".
Anyone who listens to the news knows its been said many times by Bush and Obama. And we will hear it more and more. So now is the time to dig and search for the TRUE knowledge. It is very serious.

Either you like this MESS. Or you want something BETTER.

It is simple
Dnb!!!! As much as I like you, you turn me very angry with your views
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
Indeed.
You totally challenge the limits of my tolerance! Yet, at some level it is a good exercise for an individual who at times can be driven by his emotions... My noble anscestors would not have approved it, for if I were to undergo one of my fits of rage, while attending a reception in "society" (such as a ball, or attending the opera, or during an pleasant afternoon tea party in London (say, in the 1890's), I would not have hesitated to display my emotions when angry or... I daresay, shamefully, "horny"...

ANYWAY, changing the subject DRASTICALLY, I came across a rather agreeable, NEUTER article which addresses the very core of our differences... Since it's not too long, I decided to past it here, rather than bothering giving you the link (by the way, you never visited my blog - I'm very disappointed.....)

Think About it! (Critical Thinking at its Best)

The Creation/Evolution controversy can provide the ideal opportunity for young people to learn and develop the critical thinking skills so necessary in life. Those holding to the doctrine of evolution purport to know, without doubt, the step-age of all transitional events – biological, geological, and cosmological – over the course of millions, hundreds of millions, and billions of years. They base this definitive view on a uniformitarian assumption, proclaiming that “the present is key to the past.” Many such thinkers disparage any notion of significant extra-natural catastrophes happening in earth’s history, and all dogmatic evolutionists deny the historical occurrence of a geo-cataclysmic event (Genesis Flood) that would have completely altered the then existing world.

Those who hold to the recent creation account of things as recorded in the biblical book of Genesis cite the Great Flood as the basis for the geological destruction we find in all parts of the planet. Their fundamental belief is in the unequivocal authority of the Bible as a literal account of the record of history over the course of approximately six thousand years. By thoroughly studying and understanding the chrono-genealogies of the Old Testament and the New Testament books of Matthew and Luke, a time-line is provided yielding a detailed chronology of the history of the world.

When it comes to the dating of earth’s history using these two models it becomes readily apparent that there is no middle ground, making the Creation/Evolution debate an ideal study for students to explore critically.

Evidence
This then brings us to the geological evidence we find which in turn guides us to conclusions about what actually happened in the past. Both sides in the debate use the same evidence, applying their unique interpretations to the evidence accordingly.

Those of us living in western North America are afforded a significant number of locations which yield such evidence in abundance. One of the greatest of these is the Channeled Scablands area of the states of Washington, Idaho, Montana, Oregon, and parts of California. A serious student of the phenomena that caused this cataclysmic event will find enough information to determine whether the result can be attributed to a number of catastrophic flood events occurring over unfathomable amounts of time, or whether a post Flood cataclysmic inundation caused the Scablands, depending upon which assumption is applied.

The same method can be used for the Grand Canyon, and indeed, for any large geographic feature one investigates in this part of the world. Evolutionists claim that the great Canyon was formed by relatively small amounts of water over vast amounts of time (millions of years!), while biblical Creationists hold to the view that the evidence actually reveals an event caused by vast amounts of water over a matter of a few days in duration. Indeed, when one takes into account the seismicity of the Canyon region, the tremendous uplift of the Kaibab Plateau, and the fact that huge lakes at one time bordered the eastern and northeastern regions of the area, the latter explanation makes the most sense with what we actually observe today.

So – Think about it!
My Type of VALID/Valuable Info for Dnb - PART-1
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
Since the neutrality of the previous quote was partially compromised by the last paragraph, which appear to favor your views, and since you never HESITATE to insesantly quote your SINGLE source of information, the main books of the Christian Mythology - a.k.a. as the "bible" - I decided to quote some of the serious documents containing information I value!

Naturally this is just one simple, minor text: The Inner Solar System Cataclysm, the Origin of Life, and the Return to the Moon - by Jeremy Bailey

REQUIRED INFO PRIOR TO READING:
GYR is an abbreviation for a GIGAYEAR= 1 billion years=1,000,000,000
MYR = English-language geology and astronomy as a unit of one million years=1,000,000

Summary: There has long been debate over the early cratering history of the lunar surface. While
some argue that the data are consistent with a steady decline of impact rate, others interpret the
data as indicating a cataclysmic bombardment of the Moon at around 3.9 Gyr (the lunar cataclysm
or late heavy bombardment). Evidence now suggests that this cataclysm affected the entire inner
Solar System. The cataclysm occurs at a time just before the earliest evidence of life on Earth, and
could have had important implications for the origin and early history of life. The cataclysm leads to
much lower impact rates on the early Earth than the steady decline model, opening up the possibility
that life could have started very early. Alternatively the cataclysmic bombardment may itself have
played a role in the origin of life, through delivery of organics to the Earth, creation of temporary
environments, or transferring material between planets.

..... continuing....
See PART-2 (below)
My Type of VALID/Valuable Info for Dnb - PART-2
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
... Continuing...
The Cause of the Cataclysm - according to this author
A recent study [9] has shown that the population of impactors responsible for the cataclysm was
different from that of subsequent impacts. The size distribution of craters in the lunar highlands and
old Mars plains is different from that in younger surfaces. The older craters are consistent with the
size distribution of main-belt asteroids. The younger craters similarly match the size distribution of
near-Earth asteroids. The difference in the size distribution of main-belt and near-Earth asteroids
can be understood as due to the operation of the Yarkovsky effect [10] that causes smaller bodies to
preferentially migrate into near-Earth space.
Proposed mechanisms for the cataclysm, include the collisional break-up of a large main belt asteroid
[11], the loss of a fifth terrestrial planet outside the orbit of Mars [12,13], or events triggered by the
formation of Uranus and Neptune [14,15]. However, there are problems with all these mechanisms.
The asteroid break-up mechanism requires much more massive asteroids than those currently in the
main belt. The fifth terrestrial planet mechanism is difficult to reconcile with the current state of the
inner Solar System. It tends to lead to loss of other planets, and leaves the remaining planets with
higher orbital eccentricities than observed today. The formation of Uranus and Neptune would have
to occur at a very late time to account for the cataclysm.
A new model [16,17] explains the cataclysm as the result of the readjustment of the orbits of the
giant planets in the outer Solar System. On this model the Solar System would have originally
formed with Saturn at an orbital period less than half that of Jupiter, and with Uranus and Neptune at
substantially lower orbital radii than at present. Interaction with a disk of planetesimals would cause
migration of the orbits until Saturn and Jupiter crossed their 1:2 mean motion orbital resonance.
The resonance crossing would have caused the orbits to become eccentric, and interactions between
the planets would lead to the planets rapidly migrating to their current heliocentric distances and
eccentricities. The process would lave have led to a massive delivery of planetesimals to the inner
Solar System, and to disruption of the asteroid belt. The model can account for a number of features
of the cataclysm and the Solar System that are otherwise difficult to explain.
My Type of VALID/Valuable Info for Dnb - PART-3
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
Continuing further... (last portion, I promise)
EFFECTS ON EARTH
The occurrence of the cataclysm at ~3.9 Gyr is just before the earliest evidence of life on Earth.
Stromatolites [18,19] and microfossils [20,21] are found in rocks of about 3.5 Gyr age in Western
Australia, and suggest that life was well established at this time. Carbon isotope ratios indicative of
life, in rocks from Greenland [22], may push the record back to more than 3.8 Gyr although this is
more controversial [23]. If the high impact rate at 3.9 Gyr is part of a steady decline in impacts, this
Proceedings of the 6th Australian Space Science Conference, 2006 Page 19
could leave very little time for to get started. This rapid appearance of life on Earth has been used
as the basis of statistical arguments that life may be common in the Universe [24], or may have an
extraterrestrial origin [25].
It has been estimated [26] that an impact of an asteroid of mass 1.3 x 1020kg (about 440km in
diameter) would completely evaporate the Earth’s oceans destroying any life. An asteroid of 1.1 x
1019kg (about 190km in diameter) would be sufficient to evaporate the photic zone (the upper 200m
of the ocean where photosynthesis would be possible). The mass of the impactors responsible for the
Orientale and Imbrium basins on the Moon are estimated to be 1.4 x 1018 and 2 x 1018kg [26]. This
corresponds to asteroid diameters ~100km. On a steady decline model it is therefore highly likely
that the Earth was hit by one or more of these sterilising impactors in the period before 3.9 Gyr [27].
This leads to the scenario of “impact frustration” of the origin of life [28] where impacts of large
objects limit the origin (or re-origin) of life to near the end of the bombardment.
On the cataclysm hypothesis, however, the peak of the bombardment occurs at about 3.9 Gyr. The
largest impactors on the Moon at this time are the ~100km objects responsible for the maria basins.
While the larger size of the Earth, means that statistically it is likely to be hit by somewhat larger
objects at this time, it is unlikely that any of these would be the 50-100 times more massive objects
required to sterilize the planet, and quite possible that no impacts large enough to sterilize the photic
zone occurred. On the cataclysm hypothesis then the environment would be relatively benign [29]
and life could well have survived through the cataclysm period. As there is evidence from analysis
of Hadean zircons that oceans and continents were present on Earth as far back as 4.4 Gyr [30, 31],
life could have originated at any time back to 4.4 Gyr ago. With good evidence for life only being
found at 3.5 Gyr, the time available for the emergence of life is ~0.9 Gyr, and life’s appearance may
not be as rapid as some previous studies have assumed [24, 25].
Analysis of the “tree of life” derived from ribosomal RNA has led to the suggestion that the common
ancestor of all life was a hyperthermophile (an organism adapted to very high temperatures) [32].
This could indicate that life began in a high temperature environment, but an alternative interpretation
is that the impacts during the cataclysm could provide a high-temperature bottleneck [33] through
which only hyperthermophiles survived. Yet another hypothesis is that of “thermoreduction” [34,
35] in which the prokaryotes are a more streamlined form of life that evolved from a eukaryote-like
ancestor to cope with the stresses of high temperatures. Again, the cataclysm could provide the high
temperature conditions needed for this to occur.


Perhaps now you have an idea of how I feel receiving insent non-sensicle Biblical quotations... At this my quotes are not (for me) MAMBO-JUMBO, but... the results of scientific research, based on existing evidence.
...
written by João da Silva, January 21, 2009
(by the way, you never visited my blog - I'm very disappointed.....)


So am I. For committing this unpardonable sacrilege, DnB´s Knighthood is being deferred indefinitely. smilies/cry.gif
Augustus...
written by dnbaiacu, January 21, 2009
None of what you offered debunks Creation. The Bible allows for "epics" of time for the various stages of Creation. "Days" biblically are merely time period depending on the context. Thousands and millions of years may have been involved.

I did go to your site. And I read your article.. "Praise" for Obama. I think he is a brilliant man. Eloquent, sharp , and with a sense of style. But he nor any man made institution will bring about the dreams of "peace" they desire. Man's systems are diametrically opposed to the "Intelligent Designers" purpose. A powerful non human force exerts power over man made governments. Nao importa as intencoes boas de Obama, the United Nations, or whatever, the illusion that they can bring about PEACE is an insidious facade.
Obama and those who believe in him are hopelessly misguided. As time will tell. smilies/sad.gif
Economic issues and this war on "terrorism" is a lethal and complicated mix.
I don't mean to rain on anyones party.. But realism is what will stand.
The Truth. smilies/smiley.gif
Final clarification of previous Scientific Work - FOR Dnb
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
UNLIKE the anonymous authors of the questionble ANCIENT TEXTS containing the alegorical mythology you relentlessly quote for me and (so you say) for the wide audience (ILLUSIONED you also are by the assupmtion, or rather PRESUMPTION THAT the all the hits to this page will read all OF OUR long comments, the above quoted work, like ALL OTHER scientific text DOES NOT claim absolute truth - which would be absurd!!! (like your silly mythological book does). RATHER, all scientific work correctly indicates (often) something to the effect that "current evidence appears to indicate"... and the likes of "According to the views of Professor... OR Doctor.... - always based on CURRENT EVIDENCE - duly analyzed by scholars and often modern equipment...
ALSO, UNLIKE YOUR laughable gathering of legends as per various texts selected, organized and EDITED by dogmatic European Medieval Clerics, ALL Scientific work MUST contain REFERENCE with the source of ANY information (YOUR BIBLE would reference - SEE GOD... LOL)
FOR THE ABOVE WORK, this is what Mr. Jeremy Bailey provided:

References
1. Tera, F., Papanastassiou, D.A. and Wasserburg, G.J., “Isotopic Evidence for a Terminal Lunar
Cataclysm”, Earth Planet Sci. Lett., 22, 1-21. 1974
2. Ryder, G., “Lunar samples, lunar accretion, and the early bombardment of the Moon”, EOS
Trans. AGU, 71, 322-323, 1990.
3. Hartmann, W.K., “Lunar ‘Cataclysm’: A Misconception?”, Icarus, 24, 181-187, 1975.
4. Hartmann, W.K., “Megaregolith evolution and cratering cataclysm models — Lunar cataclysm
as a misconception (28 years later)”, Meteoritics & Planetary Science, 38, 579-593, 2003.
5. Cohen, B.A., Swindle, T.D. and Kring, D.A., “Support for the Lunar Cataclysm Hypothesis
from Lunar Meteorite Impact Melt Ages”, Science, 290, 1754-1756, 2000.
6. Turner, G., Knott, S.F., Ash, R.D. and Gilmour, J.D., “Ar-Ar chronology of the Martian
meteorite ALH84001: Evidence for the timing of the early bombardment of Mars”, Geochim.
Cosmochim. Acta, 61, 3835-3850, 1997.
.... (etc, etc, - I removed the middle part for the sake of "brevity" smilies/smiley.gif).....
29. Ryder, G., “Mass flux in the ancient Earth-Moon system and benign implications for the origin
of life on Earth”, J. Geophys. Res., 107, E4, 5022, 2002.
30. Watson, E.B. and Harrison, T.M. “Zircon Thermometer Reveals Minimum melting Conditions
on Earliest Earth”, Science, 308, 841-844, 2005
31. Harrison, T.M., Blichert-Toft, J., Muller, W., Albarede, F., Holden, P. and Mojzsis, S.J.,
“Heterogenous Hadean Hafnium: Evidence of Continental Crust at 4.4 to 4.5Ga”, Science,
310, 1947-1950.
32. Stetter, K.O., “Hyperthermophiles and their possible role as ancestors of modern life”, in The
Molecular Origins of Life, (ed A. Brack), Cambridge University Press, 1998, pp 315-335.
33. Nisbet, E.G. and Sleep, N.H., “The habitat and nature of early life”, Nature, 409, 1083-1091,
2001.
34. Forterre, P. “Thermoreduction, a hypothesis for the origin of the prokaryotes”, C. R. Acad. Sci.
Paris, 318, 415-422, 1995.
35. Poole, A.M., Jeffares, D.C. and Penny, D., “The path from the RNA world”, J. Mol. Evol., 46,
1-17, 1998.
36. Chyba, C.F., Thomas, P.J., Brookshaw, L. and Sagan, C., “Cometary Delivery of Organic
Molecules to the Early Earth”, Science, 249, 366-373, 1990.
37. Chyba, C.F. and Sagan, C., “Endogenous production, exogenous delivery, and impact-shock
synthesis of organic molecules: an inventory for the origins of life”, Nature, 355, 125-132,
1992.
38. Bailey, J., Chrysostomou, A., Hough, J.H., Gledhill, T.M., McCall, A., Clark, S., Menard, F. and
Tamura, M., “Circular Polarization in Star Forming Regions: Implications for Biomolecular
Homochirality”, Science, 281, 672-674, 1998.
39. Bailey, J., “Astronomical Sources of Circularly Polarized Light and the Origin of
Homochirality”, Orig. Life Evol. Biosphere, 31, 167-183, 2001.
40. c**kell, C.S., Osinski, G.R. and Lee, P., “The Impact Crater as a Habitat: Effects of Impact
Processing of Target Materials”, Astrobiology, 3, 181-191, 2003.
41. Melosh, H.J., “The Rocky Road to Panspermia”, Nature, 332, 687-688, 1988.
42. Armstrong, J.C., Wells, L.E. and Gonzalez, G., “Rummaging through Earth’s Attic for the
Remains of Ancient Life”, Icarus, 160, 183-196, 2002.
Additional source of Scientific (VALID) information - for Dnb
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
One never knows... (as you would have said)
smilies/wink.gif LOL

GOOGLE THE FOLLOWING LINE (Search) which will display an ARREY of Scientific (related) works...related:
www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jbailey/...aclysm.pdf

Results 1 - 10 of about 28 similar to www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~jbailey/...aclysm.pdf

Do not even consider quoting ANYTHING for me which does not (begin) to meet the knowledge (and logical extrapolations without claim of sole truth)which is included in these papers....

Cheers
JOAO
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
Interestingly, it appears that you, Dnb & I may have been simultaneously making entries a couple of hours ago, for I spent quite a bit of time "here" and recall having submitted all my previous entries (nearly) on a roll... Fascinating... (Would you wnat to bet that Dnb, upon reading this very entry, is likely to state that "our coincidental visit was "His Will" or that it was "forseen"... smilies/grin.gif

Indeed, Jooa, the Knighthood for Dnb has been INDEFINITELY PLACED ON ABEYANCE, pending additional scrutinity... As he lately appears to be have turned even MORE Pious than ever before! In fact, his radical relious approach could possibly exceed the EXTENT of my very own RADICAL ATHEISM... smilies/cheesy.gif

Finally, in connection (and conclusion) of my last paragraphs, I wonder whether Dnb will either overcome his (alleged) objections towards "organized religious organizations" and soon become some type of a "priest" or "reverend" (whatever these clerics are labeled nowadays) OR he might establish his VERY OWN "Evangelical Church of the TRUTHFUL DEVOUT SOULS AWAITING SALVATION" smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif smilies/grin.gif

Cheers
Correction for JOAO about my amusing comment about Dnb's "possible" near future
written by Augustus, January 21, 2009
Joao...
Hopefully DnbCU will not be offended; yet as soon as I closed the window for this thread I thought about my chosen name for Dnb's "CHURCH" I realized, something was missing.... LOL
As such, I hereby correct that entry:

"...he might establish his VERY OWN "Evangelical Church of the TRUTHFUL DEVOUT SOULS AWAITING SALVATIONAT THE END OF DAYS..." LOL smilies/wink.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
"Science Vs. Religion - Has Darwin Failed?" From the German Magazine Der Spiegel
written by Adriana A., January 22, 2009
...
written by dnbaiacu, January 22, 2009
Ecclesiastes 3:10 sums it up beautifully! smilies/smiley.gif

 I have seen the occupation that God has given to the sons of mankind in which to be occupied. 11 Everything he has made pretty in its time. Even time indefinite he has put in their heart, that mankind may never find out the work that the [true] God has made from the start to the finish. Ecclesiastes 3:10


I like your own key words Augustus
CURRENT EVIDENCE

The more man finds the more their "theories" change. In fact the trend lately IS INTELLIGENT DESIGN. The more they discover,, the more orderly everything appears to be..

UNLIKE the anonymous authors of the questionble ANCIENT TEXTS

The bible writers were no more anonymous in their era as the folks you have listed that most of us including you have never seen, met, or heard of. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
Let's face it.. People that don't believe in a Creator , want to believe as such as an excuse to do their OWN THING.
It's really that simple.. Why deny it? It's a choice we are free to make. We are living in Adam and Eve's choice to do that. smilies/angry.gif smilies/angry.gif



As he lately appears to be have turned even MORE Pious than ever before!

smilies/smiley.gif smilies/smiley.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/grin.gif
I am just "growing spiritually" ,, becoming more "fit" as Darwin would put it for "survival". smilies/smiley.gif I am glad it is noticable over these many months. It's time to buckle down.. things are happening and incredibly fast. I need to get married, because I like having sex. smilies/wink.gif Just keepn it real smilies/cheesy.gif. So right now I am focused on learning to "commit" . It's a man thing. ONLY GOD can help with that. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

in connection (and conclusion) of my last paragraphs, I wonder whether Dnb will either overcome his (alleged) objections towards "organized religious organizations" and soon become some type of a "priest" or "reverend"

I will ALWAYS object to false organized religion.. THE BIBLE ITSELF HAS CONDEMNED AND JUDGE IT.. (if you learn nothing else from my comments I hope this sinks in smilies/smiley.gif smilies/wink.gif)
18 After these things I saw another angel descending from heaven, with great authority; and the earth was lighted up from his glory. 2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a lurking place of every unclean exhalation and a lurking place of every unclean and hated bird! 3 For because of the wine of the anger of her fornication all the nations have fallen [victim], and the kings of the earth committed fornication with her, and the traveling merchants of the earth became rich due to the power of her shameless luxury.”

4 And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if YOU do not want to share with her in her sins, and if YOU do not want to receive part of her plagues. 5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. Revelation 18:1-4


As for being a "priest".? As I progress towards "dedicating" my life to the INTELLIGENT DESIGNER" aka "GOD" , being a preacher and teacher will be my OBLIGATION. ! I'm just warming up. smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif
I had to learn the TRUTH first. smilies/wink.gif Thank GOD I did!
But it is such Good News I have to share the knowledge.. People need to learn their OPTIONS in THINKING.

Now I am off to reading "Adrianas" link.
Have a good day! smilies/smiley.gif
Science vs. Religion.?????
written by dnbaiacu, January 22, 2009
People kill me with this smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif smilies/cheesy.gif

As if believing in a Creator is NON scientific or anti Science.. smilies/cheesy.gif

What it actually does is make "science" make SENSE.

Anyway,, with "EVOLUTION or CREATION" however it went down..
Someone is right... Someone is wrong.

It WILL be revealed in time. smilies/wink.gif
Dnb - I just had enough with this non-sense
written by Augustus, January 22, 2009
While it is delightful for me to see you fullfilled and happy with YOUR aburd beliefs, I just exhausted my patience, for there would never be a way to arguing with the Religious Obsessive Individuals, especially one that reaches YOUR extreme extent.

Since I'm EQUALLY an EXTREMIST at the Opposite Side, SUFFICE IT to conclude this EXHAUSTING exchange, that I would READILY, without a Micro-second hesitation OR consideration, STAKE my LIFE right NOW, that there is no such NON-SENSICAL DIVINITY in the chaotic infinite universe (part of an infinite number of equally infite parallel universes).

NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING
NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY NOBODY
as well as
NO ISSUE, NO ARGUMENT, NO CONSIDERATION would led me to EVEN CONSIDER the slight, remote, far-fetch possibility that there COULD EVER BEEN (or come to exist) A DIVININTY CREATING, DESIGNING, RULING (or urinating, as far as I care) THIS OR ANY OTHER UNIVERSE, DYMANSION OR WHICHEVER measure of locus (actual or theoretical) you may which to pronounce.

In fact, JOAO should not really be surprised when I disappear, for as much as I initically enjoy exchanging views, IT ALWAYS GET ME TO THIS POINT when I get Irate with the ENORMOUS EXTENT OF HUMAN STUPIDITY, LAMENESS, AND INABILITY TO REASON.
FAREWELL! ENJOY YOUR DIVINE PAPER IDOLS!

smilies/angry.gif
Augustus
written by João da Silva, January 22, 2009
In fact, JOAO should not really be surprised when I disappear, for as much as I initically enjoy exchanging views, IT ALWAYS GET ME TO THIS POINT when I get Irate with the ENORMOUS EXTENT OF HUMAN STUPIDITY, LAMENESS, AND INABILITY TO REASON.
FAREWELL! ENJOY YOUR DIVINE PAPER IDOLS!


You cant walk out on your friends just like that. smilies/sad.gif

DnB: You deserve 40 lashes for upsetting Lord Augustus. You should nurse no hopes of being knighted during the next 20 years. smilies/angry.gif

Augustus/DnB: Lets go bug Ch.C. That is more fun. DnB might have more success in converting Ch.C than turning Augustus into a believer of the "Book" smilies/cheesy.gif
Joao...
written by dnbaiacu, January 22, 2009
Someones trying to get a rise out of Ch.c on the other site smilies/cheesy.gif
dnbaiacu
written by João da Silva, January 22, 2009
Someones trying to get a rise out of Ch.c on the other site


I am aware of it and I made an entry too to him and you. I strongly urge Augustus to join the fray. Ch.C has hit the roof (ably goaded by you) when someone accused him of being a racist. smilies/wink.gif It is a very touchy subject for him, in all fairness.

Write comment
quote
bold
italicize
underline
strike
url
image
quote
quote
smile
wink
laugh
grin
angry
sad
shocked
cool
tongue
kiss
cry
smaller | bigger

security code
Write the displayed characters


busy
 
Joomla 1.5 Templates by Joomlashack