Brazzil

'Heavenly Father, we come before you today to ask
your forgiveness and to seek your direction and
guidance. We know Your Word says, 'Woe to those
who call evil good,' but that is exactly what we
have done.

We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.

We have exploited the poor and called it the lottery.

We have rewarded laziness and called it welfare

We have killed our unborn and called it choice.

We have shot abortionists and called it justifiable.

We have neglected to discipline our children and called it building self esteem.

We have abused power and called it politics.

We have coveted our neighbor's possessions and called it ambition.

We have polluted the air with profanity and pornography and called it freedom of expression.

We have ridiculed the time-honored values of our forefathers and called it enlightenment.

Search us, Oh, God, and know our hearts today; cleanse us from every sin and set us free.
Amen!'

I enjoyed reading his take on pentecostalism, too and I do agree with him that it's not necessarily a bad thing.

However, Davis' generalizations are just as broadsweeping as prior leftist generalizations that religion was necessarily bad.

What bothers me about Pentecostalism is the fact that there is absolutely no control over it. Literally anyone who feels "touched by God" - or who can convince others that they are - can become a major religious figure and found their own cult.

There's a huge variety of pentecostal groups in Brazil. Some of them are quite positive. Others...

Take the Igreja Universal, for example. While I agree that it gives its members a dignity which has been stripped from them by urban poverty, it comes at a cost. The IU is a HUGE corporation which makes massive profits and which has an unhealthy political influence. Even Davis would be hard-pressed to find something "progressive" in the IU.

The fact of the matter is that Pentecostalism is a growth economy here in Brazil and everyone is getting into the game. What is scary, however, is how many absolutely looney things many pentecostals believe and want to shove down the rest of our throats.

Take education, for instance.

In the U.S. the pentecostal far right is very much a minority effort, by and large concentrated among the less-educated and not-so-well-off (though of course there are exceptions). They are frisky, politically speaking, but really don't have that much power: witness their ineffectual attempts to institutionalize the teaching of creationism.

In Brazil, however, we have a HUGE population of the sort that typically becomes evangelical in the U.S. And the impact of their (largely American) masters' voices is making itself felt.

Evolution was NEVER an issue in Brazil. Now, all of a sudden, we have an entire generation of lower middle class urban youth who are hearing from the pulpit that it's a satanic theory.

What makes matters worse is that there is absoultely NO biblical injunction against evolution. This is simply something American evangelicals made up, whole cloth, based on their particular history (and if Davis were to look deeper into that history, he'd see that the historical roots of evangelical loathing of evolution are, in fact, racist in origin).

So now, aside from all of our other educational difficulties, we need to spend time in the classroom convincing students that Darwin isn't the Devil incarnate. And I'm not talking future sociologists, lawyers and businessmen, here: I'm talking future nurses and health science students. People who NEED to have at least a nodding acquaintance with biological theory in their day-to-day work.

What makes matters worse is that there is absoultely NO biblical injunction against evolution.

And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so. 25 And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind. And God got to see that [it was] good.
Genesis 1:24,25
Everything "according to its kind", NOT evolving over time.
The Bible in reality does not contradict science. In reality when it is actually "studied" which most "evolutionists" don't bother to do before they try to "debunk" it, one can see that its texts do allow for unlimited time frames in creative periods.

So now, aside from all of our other educational difficulties, we need to spend time in the classroom convincing students that Darwin isn't the Devil incarnate.

No,,, not incarnate, just more of an agent.
“A century after Darwin’s death, we still have not the slightest demonstrable or even plausible idea of how evolution really took place—and in recent years this has led to an extraordinary series of battles over the whole question. . . . A state of almost open war exists among the evolutionists themselves, with every kind of [evolutionary] sect urging some new modification.”—C. Booker (London Times writer), The Star, (Johannesburg), April 20, 1982, p. 19.

The scientific magazine Discover said: “Evolution . . . is not only under attack by fundamentalist Christians, but is also being questioned by rep**able scientists. Among paleontologists, scientists who study the fossil record, there is growing dissent.”—October 1980, p. 88.
The “scientific method” is as follows: Observe what happens; based on those observations, form a theory as to what may be true; test the theory by further observations and by experiments; and watch to see if the predictions based on the theory are fulfilled. Is this the method followed by those who believe in and teach evolution?

According to New Scientist: “An increasing number of scientists, most particularly a growing number of evolutionists . . . argue that Darwinian evolutionary theory is no genuine scientific theory at all. . . . Many of the critics have the highest intellectual credentials.”—June 25, 1981, p. 828.

It is high time people get "options" as to what they are "lead to believe".
And BEFORE debunking anything "biblical" a person should study the bible first. If they are unwilling to do so or don't have the patience it is better to be quiet on the subject.
The truth is the bible is very compatible with "scientific discoveries" on many levels.
I am ready for ANY rebuttals and proof that the "Darwin Theory" is fact!

 Then Jesus, getting up, began to follow him; also his disciples did. 20 And, look! a woman suffering twelve years from a flow of blood came up behind and touched the fringe of his outer garment; 21 for she kept saying to herself: “If I only touch his outer garment I shall get well.
Matthew 9:19

Women who join the church, and who can get their husbands to join with them, often see significant increases in their standard of living: the men are less likely to drink, or whore, or gamble all their money away."

We should add that it also decreases domestic violence

So much proof that people can allow their consciousness to be changed by applying biblical principals.. Changes made "for the better".

Hocus pocus aside, which I will agree "does" in fact exist in many churches of Christendom, due to "extraterrestial influence" ie,demons.There is much to benefit from following Jesus teachings.

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. 15 It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.

2Corinthians 11:13,14

Even if you believe in the bible or not make sure you know the Truth

So I'm confused, DN. Do you think evolution is compatible with the Bible (which is my take on things) or don't you?

Nuclear energy can be put to good or evil use

Marijuana can heal or be abused

The Bible can be used for good or bad purposes also.

BEWARE! Study and ask for guidance. Be humble.
Any other way will leave you prey to deception!
And No,, the Bible isn't written for everyone, Just like any other book. If it's not for you , let it be.
Unfortunately the only other option is to let the Movers and shakers of the world guide you.
And we ALL can see where that's going!

The fact of the matter is that Pentecostalism is a growth economy here in Brazil and everyone is getting into the game. What is scary, however, is how many absolutely looney things many pentecostals believe and want to shove down the rest of our throats.

To think that humans evolved from primates or that energy just came out of nowhere is just as "looney" as some Pentecostal beliefs. And yes , many of their beliefs have no true biblical bases.
Truth is like a treasure the bible says.. You have to search and dig for it. If not , you "will" end up believing "looney" things with either "evolutionists" OR "creationists" orgins.

They thought it was settled.

They had won.

They were wrong.

Creationism is back. Scientific discoveries continue to undermine Darwinian assumptions.

And they are in Panic Mode.

This can´t be happening. And their output continually tends to be more strident, their attacks more ad hominem, their irrationality more evident.

Don´t engage them, it's neither worthwhile nor helpful.

Some of them have given in and joined intelligent design.

Some are looking for answers in outer space and listening to After Dark.

The holdouts are to be pitied but they are unreachable, at least by argument and logic.

Leave them alone.

Scientific discoveries continue to undermine Darwinian assumptions.

Please cite some, and then give us links to scientific peer reviewed studies for proof. BTW, links to Ben Stein's new mockumentary and to Glen Beck's blog don't count.

Ya gotta love this new era of anti-intellectualism and reverse-enlightenment the US is spearheading. But then again, why on earth would we want to trust rational human made observations about how thew world operates today in the 21 century when a 2000 year old story about a talking snake has it already laid out for us?

YOU BETCHA... wink

No, evolution in theory is NOT compatible with the Bible. As well as some "Creationist" theories like 24hr creative day periods.
Many evolutionists lump all "creationists" theories as one. Which causes the "masses" that don't investigate either way to draw erroneous conclusions on what the Bible really says or doesn't say. The jumping to conclusions on biblical matters such as it compatibility with science is what is part of the mass deception on the part of evolutionists and some religious beliefs neither of which have true biblical foundation.

Please cite some, and then give us links to scientific peer reviewed studies for proof. BTW, links to Ben Stein's new mockumentary and to Glen Beck's blog don't count

Let the book of "Creation" say it the best:

Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God. Hebrews 3:4

Ya gotta love this new era of anti-intellectualism and reverse-enlightenment the US is spearheading.

Who says those who believe in evolution are so necessarily "intellectual"??? And if it is a "new era" as you say, doesn't "evolution" itself propogate that things evolve for the better to adapt to their surroundings. ???
Just maybe this "reverse enlightment" is natures way of giving humans a way to SURVIVE this mess the "previously enlightened" created.? A mass evolution of "self-consciousness".

why on earth would we want to trust rational human made observations about how thew world operates today in the 21 century when a 2000 year old story about a talking snake has it already laid out for us?

Nice try at being sarcastic. But it doesn't fly.
Any ventriliquist can make a snake look like it is talking. Let alone an ET,angel,or spirit (whichever suits your fancy to call it)

Again it is so funny how people who try to be so science oriented try to debunk things they themselves haven't thoroughly investigated.
It's fine not to believe in the Bible. But it is ignorant to make sarcastic comments about something one knows very little about

Let the book of "Creation" say it the best:

Of course, every house is constructed by someone, but he that constructed all things is God. Hebrews 3:4

Now there’s a typical dodge. But I´ll play.

My fav is: "Yea, and God said to Abraham, 'You will kill your son Isaac.' And Abraham said, 'I can't hear you, you'll have to speak into the microphone.' And God said, 'Oh, I'm sorry, how’s this? Check, check, check. Lloyd, can you pull the high end out, I'm still getting some feedback back here. Sibilance…. Sibilance… sibilance '"

Cynicism aside, I could dig up some gems from Leviticus that we could have some fun with (the book you are quoting from makes for some pretty freaky reading), but again, what does all this have to do with ricky stating there are "scientific discoveries that undermine Darwin’s assumptions"?

There’s a great deal of Darwin’s work that’s been built upon, improved and some of the details have been challenged, but as for scientific proof that UNDERMINES his assumptions that led to the theory of evolution? As much as you thumpers prefer tossing out the quotes from Beowulf, when you take evolution to task in the science arena, you’ve not got a leg to stand on really. And when challenged legally, even courts in the US have agreed.

Who says those who believe in evolution are so necessarily "intellectual"??? And if it is a "new era" as you say, doesn't "evolution" itself propogate that things evolve for the better to adapt to their surroundings. ???

Not only are you barely making sense, but you are also highlighting your total lack of understanding regarding even the basics tenets of evolution. Force feeding a population lies and spin, celebrating stupidity and keeping them in fear to revert them into the flag waving, bible-clutching cattle of the 1920´s has nothing to do with evolution and everything to do with social engineering.

The war against intellectualism in the US is not a natural phenomenon, but a calculated play for power by a certain political party that knows too well that their only hope of remaining relevant with outdated ideas and beliefs, is to make sure enough of their base holds those same ignorant views. We’re seeing this highlighted perfectly with the current presidential election.

And they are in Panic Mode

You got that right!

It's basically this..
No Creation = No God to answer to. This is the biggest Fear.

If there IS an omnipresent , omniscient Being out there . It stands to reason there could be MANY others that are influencing human affairs.

Having people REALLY believe that would give them TOO much of an edge in life. They are LESS likely to be decieved. MORE likely to stick with "men" as their guides. Exactly what the TRULY ENLIGHTENED want so as to maintain mental control over the UNBELEIVING masses.

These sinister Enlightened ,but rebels to the Creator,catipult the supposed "intellectuals" to fame to continue to spread Anti-God, anti-creation, anti-biblical doctrine. So the masses stay LOST. And in all their supposed "Enlightment" and scientific advancement continue on a self-destuctive course .
For example, they don't even know enough to know that you don't continuously LEND money to individuals and corporations that have "continuously" showed fiscal irresponsibility.
Or is this what the SINISTER Enlightened COUNT on?? They've been around long enough to study and observe "FALLEN HUMAN BEHAVIOR"
Starting with a curiosity to be INDEPENDENT of the CREATOR. ie, opening scene with the "talking snake"

So silly these "evolutionists". How do they explain sorcery, witches, exorcists, Candomble, voodoo, tarot cards , ouja boards, astrology ,etc?
They DON"T explain it! They just shy away from the subject.

When it is all so simple!!!!!
Enough said!

For example, they don't even know enough to know that you don't continuously LEND money to individuals and corporations that have "continuously" showed fiscal irresponsibility.

And you´ve just proven my point. That quote has nothing to do with religion or science, it´s a partisan attack showing that you can´t, or don´t wish to, think for yourself.

So silly these "evolutionists". How do they explain sorcery, witches, exorcists, Candomble, voodoo, tarot cards , ouja boards, astrology ,etc?

I dunno, ask David Blain, Chris Angel, and the millions of others that have profited well off the slow putterings of underperforming minds.

Begone with you, not only are you getting silly, but boring too.

Force feeding a population lies and spin, celebrating stupidity and keeping them in fear to revert them into the flag waving, bible-clutching cattle of the 1920´s has nothing to do with evolution and everything to do with social engineering.

I totally agree with you on this... The Bible teaches that. False prophets. False religion, teaching BOBAGEM!. Actually it is no ones fault but the believers of such false doctrine for not actually "studying" the book they claim to believe in.

We all know that religion has been used to control people. It says so here in Revelation

And one of the seven angels that had the seven bowls came and spoke with me, saying: “Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication

Chapter 17 verses 1 and 2

False religion allied with government keeps the human consciousness in confusion. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. There plenty of "bible thumpers' that teach things the bible doens't . And people BELIEVE them.. Sad fact!

Clearly what the poster meant to say about "scientific proof that undermines Darwins assumptions", is that the more that is discovered in the realm of science , the more "order" is seen.. Hardly an occurence of some "organic soup" or big bang" theory, (which no one to date has explained how that energy of a "bang" came about). "Order" coming out of "disorder" defies the supposed "logic" evolutionists stake a claim on.
Following Ric's advice it is useless debating over this. For it comes down to what you choose to BELIEVE. EVERYTHING is about that.
What is objectionable is trying to debunk a book one has very little knowledge of..


Through secular media and school, most have been "force fed" evolution. It is high time people see that it takes just as much faith to believe you came from a monkey and that the order in the universe came about by chance.

Sorry,, you're probably the most boring here. Most of us have heard "wordy" intellectual sounding evolutionists STUFF.

If you don't see a connection betweeen RELIGION that says evil invisible creatures exists. And contact between humans and these invisible life forms through occult sciences. You are blind.
Also the Bible has stated quite a few things that the "science" of the era and thousands of years later recently "discovered" or recognized.
It is YOU who are left in the dark about this.
FYI, and you can research it. Many a government and so called advanced societies work with the "occult sciences" behind the scenes. Pick up a dollar bill or a Brazilian Real and you will see symbolism from occult sciences. Governments are financed by central banks. Central banks that print the money. Do you think there is no connection?
Think again. !
These big player count on IGNORANCE..
Now if people read a bible, and followed it on financial matters, they wouldn't be so trapped now,,,would they?
But I bet you don't know ,, because you haven't read it

FYI, and you can research it. Many a government and so called advanced societies work with the "occult sciences" behind the scenes. Pick up a dollar bill or a Brazilian Real and you will see symbolism from occult sciences. Governments are financed by central banks. Central banks that print the money. Do you think there is no connection?

I didn't want to comment on this article until I saw your interesting comments. You have asked some thought provoking questions. Though I have not studied the "Book" as thoroughly as you have done, I am of the opinion that all the religions teach good things and do have some scenitific factors incorporated in their respective "Books".

Re-read the first comment in this thread made by our friend Forrest. As for as I know, all the religions were founded for the better evolution of the humankind. "Be good to others; Love thy neighbor,etc;" Regardless of what religion we practice (or not), basically, we have to remain good to each other.As Forrest rightly said "We have lost our spiritual equilibrium and reversed our values.". The spiritual equilibrium is obtained through any religion. You don't have to convert to any other religion to get this equilibrium. That is the reason, I do not agree with the title of this article that implies that "Brazil benefits(or benefit) from turning into the World´s Most Pentecostal Country". Worth re-reading Blanchette´s first comment also.

Having said what I think, time for me to have supper and watch the "Final Debate". That is unless Ch.C comes out with his plans to save the Economy of Iceland with his cunning suggestions.

If God is truly a supreme being, he exists outside of time. As such, the creation of the universe is to him an on-going act and not something which happened in the past. The structures which he uses to create this universe are thus timeless and only appear to be "evolutionary" because we ourselves are stuck in the time stream.

The Bible makes it quite clear in several areas, by the way, that God's time scale is nothing like ours, that a minute to him may be a million years to us.

I understand evolution to be the mechanism which God used/uses to create life. Simple as that. Furthermore, there's nothing in the Bible which would rule out such an interpretation unless one takes the hyper literalist argument that God created the world in 168 human hours - an argument which, as I mentioned above, the Bible itself refutes.

From what I can see in the posts above, there are some serious misunderstandings of both what science is and what evolutionary theory is. Here're three of the worst...

1) People seem to think that because evolutionary theory can't explain everything then it is, as a whole, worthless. This is incorrect and it is the thinking of people who mistake faith for science. NO scientific theory pretends to explain everything: what a good theory does is explain MORE of the available observable evidence than any competing theory. And that is PRECISELY what evolution theory does. It cannot and will not explain everything. Only a closed belief system - i.e. faith - can do that and science is not a closed belief system.

2) I know of no intelligent who understands Darwin and who claims that man evolved from monkeys. The claim is that both monkeys and men share a common ancestor umpteen million years back. That is an entirely different proposition.

3) Evolution has indeed been proven in the lab, several times. Scientists have selectively bred species of fruit flies to the point where they have created other species, for example. Mutation, transmission of mutated traits, and natural selection for survival related traits has been AMPLY proven time and time again. Your very life as you live it is based on this simple fact. Almost all the food you eat, for one thing, is based on Darwinian understandings of gene transmission and species transformation.

So sorry, guys. If the argument is that God made the world in 7 days 13,000 years ago and made all species exactly like they are now at that time... Well, I'm sorry to piss on other people's folklore, but that "theory" ignores so many aspects of simple, observable reality that you might as well be talking pure fantasy.

Here's what I believe: God created the universe. It is the ONLY thing that we know that God must have created and which man couldn't have created or distorted. The same thing just can't be said about the Bible.

Ergo, the PHYSICAL UNIVERSE is God's true Bible. To ignore what it quite obviously shows is to turn our backs on God and seek refuge in false idolatry, believing that a book written by men has more worth than the universe created by God.

In my view of the world, then, those Christians and other religious folk who can't be bothered to learn about the physical universe they live in are, in fact, heretics.

as or was given not by god but by
the mind of a thinker .

the people that say WHAT IF

not the ones that say WHY

ones that go out and learn

not ones that are given

your god is what you make of it

not what it makes of you .

beleive in your self first

then you can beleive in
something more than ones self

Now Forest is channeling Yoda for us.

Your comments show that you see the value in being "conscious of your spiritual need". (those are Jesus words in Matthew 5:3)

Even lately scientists have 'discovered" that humans are "wired" as they put it for pursuing spirituality or whatever other abstract term so "intellectuals" may want to use to water it down.

Most people that want to argue down certain books or think religion is totally irrevelant to the human experience , are usually those that have been rightly turned off by the atrocities that religions in general commit.. They fail to understand that all that was prophecied to occur and that the "illusive Creator" (in their eyes,, IF they believe in One.) purposes to put an end to the religious madness and crimes ,or as you said "lost" spiritual equilibrium. That "equilibrium" being lost ,, according to the book, the moment Eve decided she wanted to be INDEPENDENT of God and Adam following suit, loving her more than God Himself.
All this is foolishness in the eyes of the suppposed intellectual. They are blind to it. But it's ok. We all have freedom of choice.

What's so funny is the sometimes violent reaction to the concept. Proving even more so that it does "strike" some chord within , no matter how deeply buried that chord is.
I like Forrest prose ,,, "believe in yourself first". If people stop and listen , they will hear. You can only TRY to ignore it, if you choose to think that is going to do you any good.

Well, here's my take on it, for what it's worth...

I totally meet you in the middle of the road with what you said. You scored well.
The disagreements come with the generalizations of what is "evolution" and what is "creationism" (if that is a word or concept)

Obviously evolution theories have been modified over time. Taught different ways. The same can be said for "Biblical" understanding. The Bible just being deemed by its adherents as a channel of communication.

As far as monkeys and humans. You made a safe comment

) I know of no intelligent who understands Darwin and who claims that man evolved from monkeys. The claim is that both monkeys and men share a common ancestor umpteen million years back. That is an entirely different proposition.

If it were actually taught as safely that way, that would be a more responsible and palatable concept. But most are left leaving school believing evolution claims monkeys ever so slowly evolved into humans.

There could have very well been upright standing homo-sapien like creatures at some time and point in the history of this planet. That may very well have shared some of the same characteristics post "Garden of Eden" man has. The bible does NOT rule that out. But according to the Bible upright standing creatures created in HIS image are a one of a kind species.
It is pleasing to hear, (for all that its worth) that you as an educated person has a belief in a "Creator".
I enjoyed what you had to say.
Religion IS a mess. God says so. Jesus talked about it all the time .And it all over Revelation 17 and 18 that Religion will be destroyed by the governments. People that preach 168 days of creation are just as guilty for spreading foolishness.
But the thing is , 'you don't know, what you don't know".. And what is deep about that is , that is a CHOICE

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you or any other evangelical Christian would want to scientifically prove anything regarding the Bible.

Your belief is based on faith, is it not?

So why all this concern with what us scientists our doing?

Let's say - just for argument's sake - that evolution was proven beyond all shadow of a doubt. Now, no scientific theory can ever be proven beyond all shadow of a doubt, I know, but let's just say we found enough proof for evolution that you'd have to look like an utter idioit to oppose it.

Would you thus change your faith-based position that God made the world 13,000 years ago in seven days?

No, you wouldn't, right?

You see, this is the problem here. You religious guys live in a world of belief. Us scientists live in a world of best possible theory based on EVIDENCE. There is no way we could EVER resolve any of your misgivings regarding evolution because no proof we could ever come up with can go against blind faith.

The debate between science and religion on the evolution issue is thus a non-debate as we're not even playing by the same rules.

Now, that having been said, religious faith has no place in the public schools. Schools should not be required to teach the tennets of your faith, Islam, or even those of the Church of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster for that matter. If you hate the idea that your children are learning things you feel uncomfortable with, yank them out of the public school system and put them in the religious school of your choice.

There is simply no basis for religious-based education in the public schools.

And when it comes to Brazil, we have enough half-literate folks running around believing in spirits and what-not, thank you. We don't need public schools to begin to support this sort of crap as well.

As usual , you don't read what people write. Or you just see what you want to see. OR you are playing a game.

I don't have for that.

First, I am not Evangelical.. Nor do I have anything against science


No talk of debating religion angainst science either.

I also do not believe religious faith should be taught in public schools.
Stop lumping everyone who thinks the Bible has credibility in the same category.
And I am only responding to you in vain AGAIN for other posters to see that you have this habit of putting "ideas" into peoples posts. Making arguments about things they never brought up.
This surprises me coming from a "scientist"..

when it comes to Brazil, we have enough half-literate folks running around believing in spirits and what-not, thank

This statement is proof you are probably part of the scheme to keep the masses "half-literate" or not in the dark about the real deal.
People know "spirits" or invisible "other beings" exists.
Maintaining a "belief" that it is all crap is truly ignorant.

This is what you "movers and shakers" ( in your words) want YOU and everyone to think and spread. While they continue to "consult the spirits" and destroy this planet.

You are RIGHT! You ARE CONFUSED . And with your attitude will more than likely stay that way.
Here is your little smart condescending remark again:

when it comes to Brazil, we have enough half-literate folks running around believing in spirits and what-not, thank you

Now here is another one of your infamous quotes

Here's what I believe: God created the universe. It is the ONLY thing that we know that God must have created and which man couldn't have created or distorted

Is GOD a Spirit?????

Or are you still CONFUSED?

Don't bother with a rebuttal

Sorry if I misunderstood you above. I DID ask for clarification and you're not the clearest of writers. I got the distinct impression, trying to puzzle out what you wrote, that you believe that evolution and Christian faith are incompatible.

Now, I'll cheerfully cop to being a condescending bastard. As long as I'm a condescending bastard and I'm RIGHT, I don't see the harm in it. And I don't see how any reasonable observer could conclude that Brazil is not full of people who have faith in the most wildly unprovable things. Whether or not people "know" that spirits exist is not the question being discussed here. The point is that such "knowledge" is purely based on faith and has no place in the public school rooms of our country.

With regards to my belief in God, I am quite clear on the point that it is a personal FAITH that I have, not objectively verifiable proof in the existence of an ultimate Creator. There is nothing at all confusing or contradictory about that position, Dn. Faith and science are totally compatible, as long as you know what each can and cannot do. What I typically tell students is that science is used to arrive at explanations for those things which have an objective explanation, while religious faith explains those things which are purely subjective or which have no reasonable objective explanation.

The problems and confusion begin when you try to swap one for the other, when you try to say, for instance, that your faith that an old tome is the literal revealed word of God needs must overide the perfectly observable fact that the Earth must be more than 13,000 years old. Or when your faith that God created all living things in the exact same forms they are today must overide the perfectly observable fact that species change and change drastically as time goes by.

Sorry if I misunderstood you above. I DID ask for clarification and you're not the clearest of writers. I got the distinct impression, trying to puzzle out what you wrote, that you believe that evolution and Christian faith are incompatible.

Now, I'll cheerfully cop to being a condescending bastard. As long as I'm a condescending bastard and I'm RIGHT, I don't see the harm in it. And I don't see how any reasonable observer could conclude that Brazil is not full of people who have faith in the most wildly unprovable things. Whether or not people "know" that spirits exist is not the question being discussed here. The point is that such "knowledge" is purely based on faith and has no place in the public school rooms of our country.

With regards to my belief in God, I am quite clear on the point that it is a personal FAITH that I have, not objectively verifiable proof in the existence of an ultimate Creator. There is nothing at all confusing or contradictory about that position, Dn. Faith and science are totally compatible, as long as you know what each can and cannot do. What I typically tell students is that science is used to arrive at explanations for those things which have an objective explanation, while religious faith explains those things which are purely subjective or which have no reasonable objective explanation.

The problems and confusion begin when you try to swap one for the other, when you try to say, for instance, that your faith that an old tome is the literal revealed word of God needs must overide the perfectly observable fact that the Earth must be more than 13,000 years old. Or when your faith that God created all living things in the exact same forms they are today must overide the perfectly observable fact that species change and change drastically as time goes by.

So what you are suggesting TB is we arrange to get a bit of a sample of Dn's hair that I can take to some otherwise really decent people I know there (folks that might even be considered rather a bit "churchy" here) that would arrange to make a macumba on him if I asked them to? I think it might even work too because he believes it. Very unscientific of me but neither you nor I can rule it out. How the half massed got to the mix they are in is mind boggling to say the least.

Lost you there, Simpleton. Sorry.

"when it comes to Brazil, we have enough half-literate folks running around beleiving in spirits and what-not"

I've seen areas where the Catholo-cumba what-not prevails - I was just confirming that it existed and might offer a way we might do away with Dn and or his mix of who knows what (with all the luminati, etc., etc.).

...I have no wish to do away with it. I think faith is important. However, I also believe that there's a time and a place for everything. Faith's place is in the church and temple and the privacy of one's home, not as required course material in public schools. Not in a pluralist culture such as ours.

"Never be afraid to trust an unknown future to a known God."

But one would have to beleive in ones self first .

god wount be found in the bottom of a bottle .

and if you can beleive this , stop building churches .

people alwayse find god in jail or prision

GOD is just an idea written on paper there is no proof tangable enough to be held on to just a book of writings written by people some that lived at his time others never met the person .

so beleive in what you want

I totally agree with you on all your last points. Faith has no place in school. It is personal and private. And school is a governmental institution. So that would be mixing the two more or less and even Christ spoke against that. Many problems arise mixing the two. And the Bible mentions that over and over.

The real problem with humans and "spirits" is that many humans worship-deify these "spirits". THIS is problematic, "as the Bible says and warns against throughout Old and New Testament texts. So you can't help BUT "looney" results , as you and I many more observe.

Simpleton sarcastically mentioned my references to occult societies like the Illuminati etc. They equally involve themselves in "spiritism" and we are all seeing the "looney" results of this because they are in the background of very powerful institutions whether the likes of Simpleton chooses to acknowledge/believe that or not.

So yes,, you do get "loony" from worshipping and consulting these invisible higher life forms.
My viewpoints are strictly biblical. Nothing personal. I could copy the texts but I am short on time. And maybe few are interested anyway.
But Jesus consistently advocated seperation of his church and the State. And the Bible has ALWAYS condemned "spiritism" in any form. They both corrupt,retard and defile the human consciousness.

With that said I totally agree with you and appreciated your response.
I will work on being a more fluent blogger. I do this at work between projects and I get excited and produce type o's and all sorts of grammatical errors. I try to keep it fun and entertaining but at the same time get some points across. I obviously detest "Bible bashing".And I truly believe that if someone claims the Christian faith, PLEASE study and make sure that what you are being taught and spread is "Really What The Bible Teaches". I believe in a Creator that is very real and very active. Just as much as all these "invisible spirits" are very real and very active while they manipulate human affairs. To not acknowledge their presence is to COMPLETELY miss the whole point of the madness the world is experiencing today after so many generations of "supposed enlightenment".
There is a shadow looming. But fortunately each of us are innately capable of "seeing the light".

There is a shadow looming. But fortunately each of us are innately capable of "seeing the light".

That is a great comment. First you put the fear of God by saying that "There is a shadow looming". An ominous message, if I may say so.Then you console everyone saying that "Fortunately each of us are innately capable of "seeing the light".

ie, what you are doing is to repeat the good old proverb "Do thy best and leave the rest unto God"

said that I am. But to others, I have neither yet said nor denied it. Thanks Dn for acknowledging my sarcasticism as well as my likes having the option of choosing. I too am with Tony (Tha' deus). Church, temple, synagogue, mosque, home, and or only privately within one's self - not within those places governed by others can one have faith. Even, so believe what you want, says forrest is good - just be carefull for what you ask for, you just might get it. Those shadows what loom are often much closer than you think - you eyes are only on the front of your head - you cannot see in all directions all at once but looking within is always a safe bet. Simple really.

- you cannot see in all directions all at once but looking within is always a safe bet. Simple really

We have to look within. We are the only "things" around that we know of that can "reason" ,, "love" , and logically rationalize. We are not running on instinct ( for the most part )
It simple "Simpleton". To understand that there must be a purpose to our existence.
Now the million dollar question is. Where do we find such purpose? Could we have been left in the dark about this?
Not so likely with such an "orderly" universe.

I just hope that many will be able to realize that there are real connections between the "spirit realm" and the "physical realm", the commercial sytem , religious systems, and the governments. Everything is intrinsically connected. To take any of these entities out of the equation is to completely lose pieces to the puzzle. It isn't this "groping through darkness" trusting in these idiotic "movers and shakers", that eat ,poop and sleep just like the rest of us.
Think about it????

If you watch "evangelical" sermons on TV doesn`t it strike you as more of a choreographed circus performance than a religious sermon??
What is especially troubling is the quasi-scientific mumbo-jumbo they preach to disprove evolution, as well as the so-called "miracle healings" performed at some of these meetings. Mix this with the political ambition and moneygreed of some "evangelical" pastors and you have a lethal c**ktail that can lead straight to dictatorship and bigotry. A country run by "evanelical" pastors would make Iran look secular and democratic by comparison

is of there own chooseing .

but when religon becomes a life style like the

JEWS & Muslems and the church dictates how to live and how to wage war , and in the name of god it is okay to kill in his name

than its rong

And the Bible agrees with you!

And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled. 24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”

Revelation 18:21-24
False Religion is responsible for all the slaughtering on earth.
False Religion= misplaced beliefs.

JEWS & Muslems and the church dictates how to live and how to wage war , and in the name of god it is okay to kill in his name

Let's not forget "SO-CALLED" professed christians are just as guilty if not more so for claiming to be Gods reps on earth. A travesity! And all these murdering religions will be done with!

...God just whispered to me that you are a complete more and that you don't have the slightest f**king understanding of what you are talking about.

Don't blame me, man. I'm just the messenger.

If it makes you feel any better, I think the Big Guy had a few too many. The inability of America's Christians right to beg, borrow, or steal a clue has Him a little bummed out these days and he was out tying one on last night.

..."moron", even.

Mix this with the political ambition and moneygreed of some "evangelical" pastors and you have a lethal c**ktail that can lead straight to dictatorship and bigotry.

Steve, I tend to agree. Add to this the political steroid of Nationalism and you can almost hear the goosing stepping in the distance. I forgot who said (and I'm paraphrasing) "fascism will come marching in draped in the flag and carrying the bible" but it certainly does ring true especially given the abundant anecdotal evidence I'm seeing during the current Presidential election.

As for my take on "beliefs", I'll raise another great historical quote that more aptly summarises my thoughts.

"The world is not only queerer than we know, it is queerer that we can know."

Albert Einstein

From academics clutching to hundred year old scientific studies to the "Joe the plumbers" out there bowing before thousand year old fairy tales, for anyone to claim a monopoly on the "truth" is ridiculously arrogant and simply ignorant.

No literal translation of Genesis says that God told Abraham to kill his son Isaac.

...God just whispered to me that you are a complete more and that you don't have the slightest f**king understanding of what you are talking about.

If you can clarify "what God told you " as to what I "don't understand" , let me know.. I am very open to what "understanding" you have of the subject of religion on a biblical and political/scientific basis.

I tried to let the texts speak for themselves.. But if you need it clarified,, here it is.

Religion WILL be destroyed by the governments.The stage is being set for that now. Open you eyes and see.
The world is going Left. And religion is increasingly being seen and portrayed as a threat and nusciance.
The world is being unified more and more. Not only by unions which will tie them economically but also on a idealogical basis.
An apparent making of the "common enemy" is "islamic terrorists.
They are not likely to go down without a fight.
I am not even going to bother to go any further.. But please come with YOUR UNDERSTANDING of the events we see today.
Do you have the answers? Where's the hope?
It's entertaining to see you use expletives to express yourself but you can save it.
I am really just interested in see WHATEVER you have enlightening to say.
And I AM sorry that my "lack of understanding" caused such a reaction :
I really didn't mean to do that.(

for anyone to claim a monopoly on the "truth" is ridiculously arrogant and simply ignorant.

Well there better be some "truth" somewhere , otherwise we're all in trouble?

And this would be ivalid...
HOPE

The righteous themselves will possess the earth,
And they will reside forever upon it.

Psalm 37:29

I dunno, Db. He just told me to pass the message along. But he did say something along the lines of "That kid thinks the "left" is in charge of planet Earth?! Tell him for me to wake up and pour the piss out".

Although my busy schedule and some health related concerns have been keeping me away from spending time entering my views in this (or any) blog, I just could not refrain from registering my STRONG objection to the contents of this article, which simply reaffirms the extreme backward status of Brazil along with its huge underprivileged populace… Yet, after further reflection, one can scarcely criticize Brazilians for falling prey to the predatory indoctrinations of fanatical proselytizers of Fundamentalist Sects... Indeed, the “representatives” of such centers of neo-mythological activities are actually representing and reflecting the maniacal proclivities of American worshipers… After all, unlike the HIGHLY civilized Western European nations, the United States of America lingers immersed in backwardness, where one may still find segments of society which worship divine entities outside its major metropolitan centers. In such large clusters of Mid-America, there are millions of “believers” who publically debase themselves - on their knees, raising arms in fanatical prayers – not unlike the inhabitants of the most primitive (and brutal) regions of this planet (e.g. Islam)!

Whereas Brazil can be excused of such appalling fate due to its large proportion of ignorant natives, most of whom are members of the lower classes (or even living in a complete state of virtual destitution), the United States cannot be forgiven for this shameful characteristic, in light of its wealthier, healthier and better educated citizenry (mostly member of the middle class). It’s simply amazing! No wonder the Europeans LAUGH and ridicule American citizens (after all, such religious fanatical Americans have elected George Bush!)

As most advanced individuals in London, Berlin, Vienna and Stockholm would undoubtedly agree, the only true knowledge is based on empirical evidence, resulting from scientific research! There is surely NO wisdom, understanding or scholarship built upon laughable fairy-tale allegories as described by ancient so-called “sacred books” (such as the Bible or the Koran) which rely on totally questionable fables (or prophecies) which were allegedly written by either mythological beings or unreliable charlatans, who in any case would have existed during a dark age typically immersed in utter ignorance and superstition! Since these “authors” would have lived in an era where Myth could not be questioned, examined or challenged, it is beyond the comprehension of any educated Western individual that large segments of humanity in early 21st Century actually have the courage to shamelessly profess such beliefs…

Taking into consideration the background of most societies found in the early millennia of Human civilizations, I would not be surprised if an individual such as Osama Bin Laden had existed in Judea under Roman rule about 2,000 years ago, he might now be worshiped by millions, even if he had committed equally vile terrorist acts against Rome (naturally in its “low tech” equivalent ways), for most of his crimes would have gradually dissipated by several primitive centuries, during which fanatical clerics and/or ecclesiastic opportunists would have re-written, re-interpreted such acts, covering them with dogma…

The absurdity of Faith in general is particularly evident among modern Mythological sects (a.k.a. religious groups) which profess and DEMAND unquestioned compliance with so-called divine commandments of one type or another, mostly designed to undermine independent thought, and control the ignorant masses… Using nothing more than pointless (ridiculous) dogmatic rules and principles that “can never” be challenged lest the established clergy might issue ecclesiastical Edicts designed to condemn any “insulting party” with charges of “blasphemy” (a crime where the “repugnant infidel” is at best exiled but most executed)...
(Part-2 follows)

Despite my strong indignation vis-à-vis the degrading condition of Human submission to ecclesiastical indoctrination, I must adhere to my unwavering respect for to freedom of expression, which unfortunately restricts my aversion to Neo-Mythological worship, and demands my tolerance of every individual's right to Stupidity. At the very least, I find solace with the my Trust in Western Democracy, which during the past three centuries, succeeded in preventing Christian Sects from pursuing their murderous practices resulting from their inherent intolerance. Mercifully, as of the close of the 17th century, European Enlightenment, Reason, and the Rule of Law has prevented groups of fanatics (or even countries) from blindly continuing butchering one another for absurd sake of different interpretations of their absurd doctrine, and rules of conduct…

In order to conclude this Formal Personal Protest against Primitive Practices, I would hope that at least some of the readers who object to my views would at least consider recognizing the rich historical evidence (across nearly 8,000 years of Human civilizations) whereby the overwhelming majority of wars and conflicts originated on religious differences; at the bloody hands of clerics who successfully acquired the “sacred aura” of “divine inspiration” aided by dogma, rituals and persecutions… As for the specific case of Christianity, I must disclose my unwavering conviction that its “chief prophet” was simply a very wise, articulate, and well intended Roman citizen from the remote province of Judea who, after years of determination and education, turned into a famous revolutionary who was capable of undertaking valiant efforts in organizing opposition against the Dominant Power of his time; most likely his underlying objective was to liberated his oppressed fellow Judeans against the oppressive shackles of Roman Imperialism. Unfortunately, his original well intended objectives were gradually distorted across the centuries of Ignorance and superstation, and institutionalized by Opportunist Medieval Clerics acting for the sake of power, veiled by the “Shroud” of salvation…

Despite my strong indignation vis-à-vis the degrading condition of Human submission to ecclesiastical indoctrination, I must adhere to my unwavering respect for to freedom of expression, which unfortunately restricts my aversion to Neo-Mythological worship, and demands my tolerance of every individual's right to Stupidity.

Augustus, your rant made my day! Loved it.

And for the rest of the bible clutching crowd, let me ask you: Does anyone here think that the USA would elect a long-haired liberal Jewish community activist to be President of the US? Especially one who "pals around" with prostitutes?

My fear is that if Jesus does exist, and he does come back to "save us" he'll be run out of middle America in a heart beat, and the TV pundits will sound off saying nothing but "where's his flag pin?"...

Morality is of the highest importance - but for us, not for God.
Albert Einstein

but i like this one better

Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich.
Napoleon Bonaparte

as any one knows that reads the kings and the politicans along with the rich have gods ear at any time ,
the poor can only pray for help

Very interesting to get insight on how others think.

That kid thinks the "left" is in charge of planet Earth?! Tell him for me to wake up and pour the piss out".

Actually I understand that Satan is in charge of earth right now
But the U.S is going Left. Maybe not completely but headed that way.

Most will be indoctrinated with beliefs such as Augustus. With Europe "of course" already leading the way..Being the model.
Satan grants power to the national groups he chooses at any given time in history.

I shall not speak much with YOU anymore, for the ruler of the world is coming. And he has no hold on me,

John 14:30

Again the Devil took him along to an unusually high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory, 9 and he said to him: “All these things I will give you if you fall down and do an act of worship to me.”

Matthew 4:8,9
It is pretty obviously this powerful evil spirit has given Great Britain and the U.S much dominion. And will give them increasingly more influence as they fan the flames to have most looking to the United Nations to solve the worlds problems..... Stay tuned
Obama is a perfect race-neutral, inexperienced, eloquent "cheerleader". Loved by most nations for either,in their eyes being a "patsy" (easy to be manipulated) or the perfect cover for many tired of seeing Euro "pseudo-leadership" . Or just plainly a mixture of both reasons to have a "visible" "CHANGE".
Nothing has changed.... You hit peoples stomachs and you can control most peoples minds. This is what our existence is all about.

 But as for the tree of the knowledge of good and bad you must not eat from it, for in the day you eat from it you will positively die.”

Genesis 2:17
Some choose to believe in God BUT on their own terms
Some choose to believe in God on His terms
Some choose NOT to believe in God
It is all CHOICE.. Always has been this way. Free-will.. Beautiful
In the end everyone will know who was right... Who was wrong. The Universe as scientists have "discovered" IS in fact governed by "LAWS". There IS order in the end. So yes,, some are right and many are wrong.
The mind is easily manipulated. History shows this. e,g Germany and the Holocaust. And hundreds of other historical examples to show that in the midst of misery all "reason" can fly to the wind.
*********
If people just "studied" the Bible. They would see that the Creator has a DISDAIN for "religion" also. Get over the anger.. But don't shortchange yourself and think it is foolish to believe in God.

: Secular Humanism against Neo-Mythological Principles - by Augustus

"Secular Humanism" ????
Humans, (as we know them, the ones that can "reason, love and rationalize") have'nt been around that long in relation to the rest of "everything" on this planet ,, let alone the universe. And for as long as they have been here, they sure aren't doing a good job "governing" themselves. Things have gotten WORSE and on a larger scale. So why have so much "faith" in them?
But it is really all so simple. And you can only be convinced or persuaded to believe if your heart is right. And that is God's work.
So the true believers just continue to be "VOCAL". It is their God given commission.

And this good news of the kingdom will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.

Matthew 24:14

Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

Matthew 28:19,20

Someone is listening..... And God will take care of the rest.

“No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him.”—John 6:44

I planted, A·pol′los watered, but God kept making [it] grow; 7 so that neither is he that plants anything nor is he that waters, but God who makes [it] grow.

1Corithians 3:6,7

This is my last entry in this section, as I have no time, desire, patience or inclination to deal with endless flows of ridiculous quotations from idiotic books containing Christian Mythology which has considerably less signficance than a Snow White or Cinderella (which at least have the value of entertainement).

Humanity’s obsession with 'purpose' and 'meaning' stems from their inability and/or refusal to accept the impact of a serious, sad and inescapable reality: when their short, limited existence expires, it’s all over, and there is nothing more… nothing less! As a result, many people – even some intelligent & educated members of the upper classes simply cannot face the fact that after they cease breathing, it's over! Because Humans are egotistical creatures, the more limited ones seek unrealistic, absurd meanings in Mythological Creeds which support the ridiculous claim that man is at the center of the universe; thereby explaining why such Sects, many of which are managed my fanatical or even deranged individuals (not to mention those who abuse & molest children) make every effort (including murder – if possible) to resist any progress that casts doubt on this idea (such as Galileo in 1633 – who was nearly condemned to Death by the Vatican, yet escaped with Life confinement after being forced to renounce his VALID findings – I’m glad Darwin lived in the 19th century).

Indeed Humans are often so emotionally needy that many of us are unable to comprehend the fact that our lifespan is fleeting, temporal, ephemeras... and then, nothing! C’est fini la contredanse » In essence, the one must accept the inevitable reality whereby everyone, including the Crowned Heads and Aristocracy of the Europe, will reach that implacable final stop and wind up in the ground (or cremated – my choice), thus becoming nutrients for worms, and that there is NO remedy available to avoid this horrifying sense of finality…

Yet, I will leave it to the fanatical members, to continue quoting ridiculous ancient irrelevances, hoping that it provides solace and meaning to them and any other with limited perceptions (or deliberate refusal to accept) the limitations of our chaotic infinite universe which has existed for 13.7 billion years…

Is it possible that you are blissfully unaware of the fact that you are a total blowhard? Or at least write as one? Regardless of what you happen to be opining on at the time, whether metaphysics of politics?

Rarely have I seen or read such a specimen. It´s wonderful. Defining. Perhaps often imitated, but never equalled.

I always find it amazing the some the strongest Bible critics usually know very little about the Bible.. But then maybe again this is NOT so surprising

Humanity’s obsession with 'purpose' and 'meaning' stems from their inability and/or refusal to accept the impact of a serious, sad and inescapable reality: when their short, limited existence expires, it’s all over, and there is nothing more… nothing less!

REALITY CHECK
The "Ridiculous Ancient" texts have already said that

 For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten.

Ecclesiastes 9:5

All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in She′ol, the place to which you are going.

Ecclesiastes 9:10

Yes, according to the texts,, when you're dead,,you're dead.
The above poster was taught lies.
He is also disgruntled and angered with what goes on in religion

29 I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, 30 and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.

acts 20:29
All if takes is an in depth study of the scriptures IF YOU ARE INTERESTED (because it isn't written for everyone) and one can see just how much sense the Bible makes.
But all the Bible bashing with absolutely no real knowledge of the subject is just plain....
Silly

I suppose I have... "a lot to say"
actually... I'm an extremist - everhthing or nothing!

the king james ?

or the 2 his replaced during his presents as leader of the church of England ?

or that of empor Constaine and the mass meeting he held to try to bring all the churchs togeather , by tossing out 128 different parts .

the up front cahloic one written in latin and only the priest are allowed to read ?

The book of monmon ?

so many to choose from so little time

Forest
That's precisely PART of my point
The entire idea is MUMBO-JUMBO which could be understood in a pre-technological age, prior to mass education, science and technology

Immaculate conception ALONE (not to mention the parting of the Red Sea) are sooooooo UNBELIVABLY RIDICULOUS that it ASTOUNDS me that anyone nowdays could even contemplate given them more than a passing amuzing glance - unless of course, one happens to be an illeterate resident of a remote village in CEARA, ANGOLA or MOZAMBIQUE could b

The basics of the underlying of message of God's Kingdom as the solution to man's problems is in ANY Bible. All Bibles are pretty much on the same page. (Bibles that is,,not "book of Mormon)
If there are any descrepancies a student of the bible will get to a satisfactory conclusion when it comes to variances in translations.
Thank God for ancient manuscripts that have been found to confirm the accuracy of many of todays versions such as the King James etc.
When it is all said and done God is powerful enough to not allow His word to be tampered with beyond recognition. The fact that it is even still around after many genocidal attacks against its' custodians gives good credibility to its' being supported by supernatural help.

Immaculate conception ALONE (not to mention the parting of the Red Sea) are sooooooo UNBELIVABLY RIDICULOUS that it ASTOUNDS me that anyone nowdays could even contemplate given them more than a passing amuzing glance - unless of course, one happens to be an illeterate resident of a remote village in CEARA, ANGOLA or MOZAMBIQUE could b

Miracles are miracles.
And as for the "parting of the Red Sea"?
Science has shown that water can in fact be parted by strong magnetic forces. . Besides winds blew the surface dry over night. And the area of the probable crossing was not that deep.
*************
Personally I am not trying to "prove" anything to anyone. It is an option of "faith". An innate "human" function anyone is capable of having but NOT the possession of all.

and that we may be delivered from harmful and wicked men, for faith is not a possession of all people.

2 Thessalonians 3:2

24 Immediately crying out, the father of the young child was saying: “I have faith! Help me out where I need faith!”

Mark 9:24
So just because some don't have it , doesn't mean those that do are crazy. And again,, usually the highest critics of the Bible NEVER STUDIED it.
Why they rant is beyond me?????

Dnb
I truly hope that somehow you understand that my messages do not represent any attack on you personally - I actually like you (perhaps the only deeply religious person I actually entertain friendly disposition) - just because I do like you, it bugs me that you are... "One of them (the believers I so much despise)'!!!

I have ALWAYS been extremely against ANY TYPE of religious beliefs, faith or whatever that is NOT factual scientific fact or hypothesis...
No need to further expand on the issue, I'm certain that you got my point perfectly clear by now... Just do me the curtsy of sparing the insult of any bible quotation, when addressing me, for I do not even bother reading them... I never would! All that you accomplish is by quoting them for ME is to get exceedingly distressed (and depending on the day, raging mad).

Why they rant is beyond me?????

We rant simply because we’re fed up with centuries of fairy tales and archaic legends of mystical all-knowing beings and bogymen when they go against all personal observable experiences and rational. We’re sick of the psychological (and physical) abuse inflicted on children in the name of some insecure “all-loving” creator who will send you to a burning pit of fire for eternity if you don’t return his love. We’re OH-SO tired of the wars waged and the millions of lives senselessly lost over WHOSE Tinkerbelle is more righteous and morally just. And we’re perplexed that in the 21st century, people still choose to embrace a 2000 year old medieval text for guidance.

Worse I guess is that of all the gobbledygook, speaking snakes and mass genocides found in these books of ethical guidance, the one “Golden Rule” that actually does make sense and should be embraced by all (Leviticus 19:34 “but love your neighbour as yourself”) is the one that no religious biblethumping zealot ever truly takes to heart.

And for kicks n giggles, if this God bloke, this supernatural omnipotent being, is as powerful as many claim, then why is he such a poor communicator? You’d think that someone who created life, the universe and everything could do a bit better than placing a barely recognizable image of Jesus in burnt toast to strike up a conversation, no?

Joe the plumber, to mention that I was delighted with your entry would be a major understatement! Until reading your wise, truthful, and extremely eloquent entry, I had been under the impression that there were no other enlightened humans participating in this Blog, as I have been struggling alone (across several threads/articles of Brazzil.com) against the unbelievable insanity of a significant number of Religious fanatics!

Indeed, we are fed up with the excessive, all-consuming mythological discourse, which seemingly empowers the militant proselytizers with so much blind conviction that it makes it virtually impossible for them to realize how absurdly ridiculous (and at best child-like) such beliefs appear to the Advocates of Reason.

What strike me as most disturbing are the unrelenting, deliberate efforts by fanatical advocates of the Christian and Islamic Mythologies to continue imposing endless streams of meaningless biblical passages, to those (like ourselves) who follow Logic & Scientific Knowledge, as if their “god(s)” would somehow “miraculously” convert our poor “infidel souls”… Unfortunately, I fear that any attempt to criticize the religious extremists’ self-delusional behavior further bolsters their blind dogmatic convictions!

As for your last paragraph…

, if this God bloke, this supernatural omnipotent being, is as powerful as many claim, then why is he such a poor communicator

…I now understand the futility of questioning the unfortunate creatures who remain shackled to dogmatic fanaticism, as their representatives tend to reply with a disturbingly distorted logic, whereby their God’s refusal to interfere in human affairs constitutes a deliberate divine plan to “test their faith”… Any issue, any challenge, and any attempt to sparkle enlightenment into their midst is generally perceived as part of the “mysterious ways” of divine beings which (of course) cannot be questioned by “wicked human sinners”…

Why do we rant indeed? Not only we – the Enlightened Few - are TIRED of intelligence insulted with meaningless biblical passages, but in my particular case, I consider such behavior exceedingly odious, to be constantly reminded that most fellow members of my (Human) species remain capable of debasing themselves to such lower depths of ignorance and primitivism! The existence of the Religious Fanatics makes me ashamed of being Human!

Joe the plumber - The Wise! - Finally another voice for REASON...

Joe, the wise ? Don´t make me laugh, Old chap. Joe has several Avatars. One day he is Joe, the Sickland and another day he is Joe, the Plumber. He would never ever make a good recruit for MI.6.

The more appropriate name for this chap is Joe the Dumb ass.

Now, if you will excuse me, I will retire to my library and have some Gin and Tonic and cheer for the victory of that coloured gentleman in your forthcoming Presidential elections. He sounds to be quite scholarly and distinguished.

in such matters on a very direct and personal way, I agree, no one who espouses their "treinamento" (whether they knew that's what had been done to them or not) nor their "faith" (however it was / where it was that they came into having adopted it - even if it were in prison as forrest points out or in fox holes as our fathers or fathers fathers may have come to it) in excessive, flamboyant or publicly pitched / pushy ways is other than a fanatic. After such divine interdiction (or interference from that other side of the equation), then and only then you have such right (even if people will think that you are only crazy). When it is only something that you "thought" you saw or heard or felt, especially if in one of those mass hand raising / shakeing / wagging in tongues events, that provoked you - you have to remain open to the concept that you have "chosen" to deceive yourself / let others do so. That is not to say leading a pious life is a bad thing.

Augie - I do not share in your feeling of "shame" nor do I wish to "believe" you really meant it other than to state such to make your point - a sense of being "insulted", yes, more middle of the road for the majority of us to feel that way. Sorry if you feel I want to "not" read what you wrote. It's this tendancy of mine to be a bit more on the "tolerant" side of things that interferes.

Gin and tonic **? Great idea, I'd love to join you but you don't have a malaria issue where you are at (least not yet) and it does no good against Dengue.

...
Considering the point I was trying to make, which was rather specific (referring to his identical views on religion and worship of divine mythological beings), I must clarify that his comments were the subject of my praise. Therefore, it is completely irrelevant to me this gentleman's choice of (varied) alias (which incidentally is position not uncommon in blog exchanges). The BOTTOM LINE: “Joe’s” entry was exceedingly well written and perfectly reflects RADICAL views on this issue: strongly objecting to intolerable primitive religious activities…

SIMPLETON
Naturally I'm not ashamed of being Human, particularly because Empirical Research has not yet positively identified any other Sentient Species in the Universe, to which I might otherwise have aspired to belong… (even though LOGIC would naturally imply that such entities are very likely to exist within an infinite universe (composed of billions of galaxies, each which one containing hundreds of billions of stars where planets and/or satellites may have developed life and subsequently undergone some type of evolutionary process leading to intelligence, civilizations, technology and some even capable of inter-stellar movement ) The BOTTOM LINE – presuming an entirely hypothetical scenario where some alien elements would be concealed in our midst, conducting some type of scientific research, these “visitors” would be almost certainly classify Humanity extremely primitive – despite some minor recent technological advances – in light of the fact that billions of humans still worship mythological divine beings... Using such hypothetical scenario into account, I would most certainly be ashamed and dismayed for being equated with such an embarrassing, backward group…

Joe, the wise ? Don´t make me laugh, Old chap. Joe has several Avatars. One day he is Joe, the Sickland and another day he is Joe, the Plumber. He would never ever make a good recruit for MI.6.

I've never identified under the avatar "Sickland", your accusation is absurd. What does that say about your intellectual prowess and analytical depth?

As well, after that was written, by myself and others, highlighting the 2000 year old Voodoo fraud and the religious hypocrisy practiced by its mentally lacking followers, the best you can come up with is "he's a poopypants"?

Get back to your spirits sir, they seem to serve your synapses well.

im with you august, you just say it better...and i get bored with those kind of discusions , i have it too much in my own household

funny, i didnt think the universal church was pentacostal, i thought it was evangelical

bishop macedo has big power , a tv station and everything

he did write a book back in the late 1980's that was a detailed description of condomble and its rights

i beleive he geared many things in his church to reaching out to people who were into condomble and looking for a new faith.

there are rituals and things they ask the parishers to do that would apeal to what they were used to in condomble. like bringing obgects home and anointing them then bringing them back to the church.putting oils on doors and objects in the homes to keep demons away etc.things that people could relate to in condomble . he understood this need and filled a void for it.

where i respect any ones personal faith and beleif, i get real uptight when religious people try to force their beleifs on everyone else.there is so much sickness in the world right now because of organised religion

I've never identified under the avatar "Sickland", your accusation is absurd. What does that say about your intellectual prowess and analytical depth?

My profound apologies, Old Chap. There was this fellow "Joe Sickland" whose writing was similar to yours and I mistakenly associated you with that fellow.

Get back to your spirits sir, they seem to serve your synapses well.

Thanks for the suggestion, my dear fellow. However, today being Sunday, I do not consume spirits. Instead I will have some tea and biscuits. I suggest you do too.

GOD=SANTA CLAUS=0

RELIGION=IDEOLOGY=IGNORANCE=CONTROL OF THE MASSES

Thanks for your latest entry
I never take anything you say personally. In fact I admire that you are quite vocal and coherent about your position. My responses aren't to you personally either. They are just to defend the opposing view. Someones got to do it. "Believers" , that make any sense are in the minority these days.
Actually I agree with you on many points. And I quote scripture just to show you and others just how much your opinions agree with some scripture.
Yes, the Bible is my book of reference. Just as the "Orgin of Species" or anything similar may be yours with your train of thought.
I view our expressions simply as an oppurtunity to enlighten others on either end of the spectrum. Some think like you. Some think like me. Many more are unsure how to think. What's important IS that people THINK.
Whenever you get this message , have a good day.

Bible=pile of dung!

there is so much sickness in the world right now because of organised religion

Congratulations Asp!
And the BIBLE agrees with you:

Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, whereas those who inhabit the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.”

That's Revelation 17:1
The consciousness of the vast majority is "sick" or "drunk" BECAUSE of the influence of FALSE organized religion.
 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and was adorned with gold and precious stone and pearls and had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her fornication. 5 And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and of the disgusting things of the earth.” Revelation 17:4,5
Organized religion is very wealthy from her relationship with the governments as they work together to control the minds and exploit the finances of the unsuspecting.
 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven, and God has called her acts of injustice to mind. Revelation 18:5
False organized religions sins are very great and God will take care of that.
Look at what is going to happen to false organized religion
And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again. 22 And the sound of singers who accompany themselves on the harp and of musicians and of flutists and of trumpeters will never be heard in you again, and no craftsman of any trade will ever be found in you again, and no sound of a millstone will ever be heard in you again, 23 and no light of a lamp will ever shine in you again, and no voice of a bridegroom and of a bride will ever be heard in you again; because your traveling merchants were the top-ranking men of the earth, for by your spiritistic practice all the nations were misled. 24 Yes, in her was found the blood of prophets and of holy ones and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”
That's Revelation 18:21-24
So to some to the above posters happiness, the earth will be free of false organized religion. Yes , it has been very destructive in the course of mans history. And NO, God is not sitting back doing nothing. In fact, as we blog,, things are being manuevered to have the destruction of religion come about by His making.
And he says to me: “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is sitting, mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, and the wild beast, these will hate the harlot and will make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and will completely burn her with fire. 17 For God put [it] into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out [their] one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished. Revelation 17:15-17
We are all involved whether we choose to "believe" or not.
This is not fanatacism. No more so than any "spews" about the enlightenment of "science" . This is just "enlightment" on a book that is NOT going anywhere despite its huge unpopularity among certain sectors of society. That alone should arouse some curiousity in investigating its "real" message.
Yes, it HAS been crimminally used against many.. BUT that is not the fault of the book itself or it "inspirator".
Besides, it was delivered to those that feel the need to take advantage of it. It's simply NOT for everyone. Although EVERY human is capable of benefiting one way or another from it contents.
I bet every here has read a "self-help" book in one form or another.
Rest assure any good piece of advice can be traced to have already been written in ,,,,,, The Bible. Still being the oldest and most widely distributed and translated book on the affairs of the human conscious.

Bible=pile of dung!

People that talk like this NEVER have an alternative. They bash , rant and rave. And NEVER offer any alternatives for guidance which we admittedly all need. Most people guiding by any form of principles refer to them "de vez quando" in written form. Or least in some of the most primitive societies that have no written forms of guidance they seek local counselor.
Those that don't read the Bible or any other type of professed "holy book" , more than likely read some type of "self-help" book that always have "watered down" versions of what is already written in the Bible.
Please try to prove me wrong
If you aren't referring to "anything" as if you have it all figured out , it is safe to assume your life is a MESS. Because there is no one with the least amount of success in life operating without principle.
It is plain silly and immature to downgrade a good book whether you believe it has "divine" inspiration or not. The above comment "pile of dung" just proves the point.
But don't worry , the Bible haters will have their day soon enough. It will come. It is coming. And just remember... It was already PROPHECIED.

But don't worry , the Bible haters will have their day soon enough. It will come. It is coming.

You are a very cunning fellow, if I might be allowed to say so. "Rule the Natives by fear" is your motto. The Church of England would be proud of you!

Actually the Church of England has always taken a dim view of the Separated Brethren.

dnbaiacu,

I have read the Bible almost from beginning to end. It is a pile of dung, and I am being polite about it. Only brainless people would subscribe to such a shtty book, or to any time of religion for that matter.

dnbaiacu,

I have read the Bible almost from beginning to end. It is a pile of dung, and I am being polite about it. Only brainless people would subscribe to such a shtty book, or to any time of religion for that matter.

But don't worry , the Bible haters will have their day soon enough. It will come. It is coming.

I am sooo scarred! You and the likes of Sara Palin scare me more!

I didn't mean "adverse judgement" of bible haters.. It's not my place to make those calls..
What I meant is that very shortly it will be in "fashion" to hate the Bible and all religion. People that already view the Bible as a "pile of dung" will have their day of glory. It is prophecied. And you appear to be part of that by what you say. So you should be happy. Everything is going the way you would like to see it.
China is going to have a big influence on world affairs.And you know they are already intolerant of religion. The winds are blowing in your favor. That's what I was referring to..
So you can help the prophecies and keep talking as you do. Spread it more and more. And I will just keep doing what I do, while there is still time . There will laws against it in the not so far future.. So I have to take advantage
Then you can take over with all the wonderful and inspiring things you have to say.
Keep the hope alive!

One that believes if prophecies has the brain of a chicken!

One that believes if prophecies has the brain of a chicken!

It's so funny that all you come back with is insults and blanket statements.

Even Nostradamus who is no prophet had and has a good degree of accuracy. We all know that some people have "pychic" ability. I challenge you to take a visit to a tarot card reader or palm reader and see how much a "complete stranger " can find out about your "black cake" .
Now the intelligent question would be , "who or what" entered his or her mind to tell you present past events that you don't have to logistics to witness or seeing coming at the moment?.

Actually I need to be applying this scripture with you.

 Do not answer anyone stupid according to his foolishness, that you yourself also may not become equal to him. Proverbs 26:4

But I am "answering" for the sake of "other" readers that may imagine I could possibly have no comeback.

The reality is , people with your point of view can ONLY come back with insults and viable alternatives that hold "solutions".
The other reality is most ARE operating the way you think whether consciously or not and that is EXACTLY why the world is in the situation it is today. People want to direct their own steps. But they weren't DESIGNED to

I well know, O Lord, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.
Jerimiah 10:23

So keep it up with the insults. It only shows exactly where you are at.
Get back to me as you watch this "prophecy for chicken brains" come to fruition.
“And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, and so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. Revelation 17:12,13

10= complete
wild beast= United Nations
Stay tuned Nov 15th as the "World Economic Summit" gets more and more countries on one accord.
Everything starts with "money".
Then there will be a "common enemy" fabricated or not.
This is where you 'Bola Preta' should start to get all happy
The likes of me will have to go underground.
Do yourself a favor and put some "substance" into your comments because you are embarrasing the more "enlightened" segment of the population.

The reality is , people with your point of view can ONLY come back with insults and viable alternatives that hold "solutions".

"and NO viable alternatives that hold "solutions"

For those who agree of sympathize with my DRASTICALLY ANTI-RELIGIOUS entrenched position, and who gets ENAUSIATED by the sheer reference to bible entries, please access the following link at msnbc:
Australia's Parliament questions Lord's Prayer
LINK = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27400681/

PREVIEW: CANBERRA, Australia - The speaker of Australia's Parliament has called for a public debate about whether the country's lawmakers should end the practice of starting each session with the Lord's Prayer.

I CANNOT EXPRESS HOW DELIGHTED I GET WHENEVER I FIND A DROP OF HOPE REGARDING JUST A HINT THAT HUMANITY MAY EVENTUALLY OVERCOME SUCH AN OPPRESSIVE, DIVISIVE, HATE-INSPIRING, PRIMITIVE TYPE OF ACTIVITIES...

Just good luck for those who will be dealing with the 500 bible quotations which are likely to follow from the Evangelical Representative...

Since I could scarcely identify anyone (alive) who could possibly despise and oppose any issue related to religions, blind faith, prayers, and/or biblical/Koran quotations MORE than I do, I trust I am better poised to caution & urge you (as well as others) to refrain from posting excessively insulting entries (although I recognize that some portions of my entries on this topic may, from time to time, be perceived by some parties as border-line invective).

Consequently, I would like to publicly cast my formal objection to excessively offensive entries (recently posted by Bola Preta and others) in spite of any “empathy” I may have with the blogger’s underlying standpoint…

Extremely insulting posts attacking the fanatical worshipers of mythological entities are indecorous, futile and unproductive

Extremely insulting posts attacking the fanatical worshipers of mythological entities are indecorous, futile and unproductive

Yes, we CAN agree to "disagree" civily.
That was good I really liked that.
You're cool.
Next week our fingers are going to get tired
Are you ready?

dnbaiacu,

You are pretty stupid my friend.

Still waiting on anything of substance from you.......... as I "turn the other cheek"...

Ok, I promise to be more respectful of our narrow minded, chicken brained, brain washed, and stupid religious friends.

, I promise to be more respectful of our narrow minded, chicken brained, brain washed, and stupid religious friends.

Although I still have a lot more dirt to clean up in my brain. Admittedly a work in progress.

Ever since my family watched Favella Rising, I knew there was something more that needed to be done. There is a drive within that tells me we are certain in our desire for peace and that it begins within our communities and escalates the more we embody the kind of actions that promote health and well-being. Through prayer and meditation I have been sending the citizens, children, and workers of Brazil positive thought and wishes for harmony in the cities across the country. The music of your country is invigorating and here in Eugene we have a Samba band that reminds me of the culture that Brazil brings to the world, beautiful people and dynamics of rhythm that share a joy for dance and a passion for lively music. We need to have faith and an open heart for future possibilities of cohesion. All our companies that struggle in this world may find it in them to lend a helping hand towards healing relations and creating more options that lead to operating in co-existence. Together we are capable of so much. How can we come to know each other so groups may meet the needs of one another?
With the positive, uplifting vibe of live music, anything is possible. Set a group intention and let the healing begin. For the sake of our future, let us bring a new idea about that will help to overcome our oppressive past and free us from ambiguity; therefore, peace and prosperity may collaborate together for the benifit of all.
"Si, se puede!"
~Tomas de Eugene

I am an editor for Christian.com which is a social network dedicated to the christian community. As I look through your web site I feel a collaboration is at hand. I would be inclined to acknowledge your website offering it to our users as I'm sure our Pentecostal audience would benefit from what your site has to offer. I look forward to your thoughts or questions regarding the matter.

Vicky Silvers
vicky.silvers@gmail.com