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        fidel castro a good leader
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mooseboy84


Newbie
   
in reading through all the post about lula being the next fidel and anti americanism etc, i saw many people that hate fidel castro.

why is this?

is he a dictator? yes he is. but whats his record.

free education for all kids,[a good one], free medicince, free beans rice and milk.

there are many bad things, like lack of political decent and a free press. there is alot of poverty, and people live a basic living with little money.

however, if you compare cuba to other countries in south and central america they are one of the best.

a good economey. a HIGH literacy among the populace, one of the lowest child birth rates in the world and people are fed.

now you may say castro an evil dictator, but he has been the most sucessful communist in the world.  americans look at him and say how bad he treats people [political decenters], which is wrong. but the man HAS done alot for cuba.

look at brazil. how many people starve every day? how many children roam the streets not going to school?  what is the birth rate?  how do poor people get medical treatment?

im not a communist, but when you look at his record, castro has done more in cuba with LESS violence than any other central or south american country.  

we say hes a dictator, but how many dictators did we [usa] install in south +central american countries that killed THOUSANDs of innocent people. not arrest or detain, out right murder innocent people.  all those countries today have still not recovered, while cuba is doing moderatly well.


many of the cubans that are against castro are the rich that left the country and went to miami in the early 60s when he took power. they have been the main voice against him.  the reason people swim to miami is not as much about political freedom [though that is important], its because theyre poor in cuba.  however, the poor in cuba are better than the poor in most southern american countries, or countries around the world for that part.

communism will more than likley end in cuba when castro dies [hes like 78]. it may have ended by now if the american goverement would not impose sanctions on cuba. castro may be a dictator, but hes been the most effictive in actually helping his peopple.  

his record on civil rights of citizens of cuba is bad, yet its no where near comprable to some of the records of dictators that america installed in other countries.

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<<because i f**kin said so>>

Total Posts: 12 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 3:58 am on Jan. 10, 2003 | IP
fernandobn


Junior Member
   
You, must be kidding right? What economy? I know that the tabbaco is excelent, and what else? Did you noticed the sizes of Brazil and Cuba? and the population? He solve things, puting people on Paredon, cool! Don't believe in everything you hear about Brazil, there are lots of bad propaganda out there. There is so good, that people use to swim to florida, only for fun, uh!  Gimme a break!

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Fernando B.

Total Posts: 55 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 5:35 pm on Jan. 10, 2003 | IP
Boris


Newbie
   
If Fidel is so good and Cuba so wonderful why are people risking their lives to get the hell out of there?

Total Posts: 19 | Joined Jan. 2003 | Posted on: 5:56 pm on Jan. 10, 2003 | IP
Patinho



Junior Member
   
Once again people, here is an example of why doing drugs is bad.

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"Quem quer viver faz magica"
--Guimaraes Rosa

Total Posts: 67 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 8:41 pm on Jan. 10, 2003 | IP
mooseboy84


Newbie
   
good way to counter argue.

people are swimming over because cubas a poor nation. why do millions of mexicans come to the usa? because making 6 dollars an hour is better than making 20 pesos a day.  its the same with cuba. brazilians would swim to america if it was 90 miles away.

regardless of the current recession in cuba, overall castro has done more for cuba than many other countrys in the area.

cuba facts------
Birth rate:  
12.08 births/1,000 population (2002 est.)  
Death rate:  
7.35 deaths/1,000 population (2002 est.)  
Infant mortality rate:  
7.27 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.)  
Life expectancy at birth:  
total population: 76.6 years
female: 79.15 years (2002 est.)
male: 74.2 years  
Literacy:  
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
male: 96.2%
female: 95.3% (1995 est.)
total population: 95.7%  


brazil
Birth rate:  
18.08 births/1,000 population (2002 est.)
Death rate:  
9.32 deaths/1,000 population (2002 est.)  
Infant mortality rate:  
35.87 deaths/1,000 live births (2002 est.) -very high
Life expectancy at birth:  
total population: 63.55 years
female: 67.91 years (2002 est.)
male: 59.4 years  
Literacy:  
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 83.3%
male: 83.3%
female: 83.2% (1995 est.)  


like i said. despite the bad economey in cuba [as well in other countrys] castro has take steps to improve the life of the people. there opressed, but so are others in other south american countries.
go to guatemala or colombia and ask them would they rather they live there with para millitarys murdering innocent people, or go to a country like cuba.

before you want to call me crazy and say im on drugs, check that facts out yourself.    ask the people in hati would they rather live in hati or the domenican republic or cuba?

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/br.html





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<<because i f**kin said so>>

Total Posts: 12 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 3:14 am on Jan. 11, 2003 | IP
Sick



Newbie
   
Cuba's economy has been in a steady downturn since it lost billions per year in Soviet subsidies. A Russian accountant once figured out how much the USSR had given Cuba in subsidies, and he came up with a figure of over $100 billion (adjusted for 1994 dollars).  This is for an island of about 11 million inhabitants. Look at the poverty in Cuba and ask yourself where all that money went. You should also ask yourself if the ends justify the means. Defenders of US foreign policy often make a means justify the ends argument in regards to Chile. I hope you do not agree with that whether it be Chile or Cuba.  Anyway, you may write this link off as biased propaganda because it IS from the US State Department, but I think you should view Cuba in context, as in, what Cuba was like pre-Castro. This might give you a different perspective.

http://www.state.gov/p/wha/ci/14776.htm

"communism will more than likley end in cuba when castro dies [hes like 78]. it may have ended by now if the american goverement would not impose sanctions on cuba." - I don't know if this is right or wrong and is just your opinion but I am just curious what you base this on?

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I have the best hair on this website.

Total Posts: 27 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 6:31 pm on Jan. 11, 2003 | IP
mooseboy84


Newbie
   
i base it on the fact that castro is close to 80 years old, and his brother which would replace when he goes, is only a few years younger.

also, there is a steadily growing private industry.


also, that link you provided is called DISinformation. why is it called that? because its conspicously trying argue AGAINST the [relative sucess] of the castro regime.

if you scroll down near the bottom, the talk about "teledensity" and say cuba has no phones.  what impact has the embargo had on this?

look at all the facts and ask what impact has the embargo had on them.  those facts all may be true, but you must take them into context. also, if they did not point out every NEGATIVE about cubas growth, then that would be a more credible source.  like i said, its all about context. do you know how many times the cia has tried to kill castro? at least 11 documented times.
--------
on a side not, at the very bottom it says this:

MASS MEDIA

It is no exaggeration to state that during the 1950's, the Cuban people were among the most informed in the world, living in an uncharacteristically large media market for such a small country.  Cubans had a choice of 58 daily newspapers during the late 1950's, according to the UN statistical yearbook.  Despite its small size, this placed Cuba behind only Brazil, Argentina, and Mexico in the region.  By 1992, government controls had reduced the number of dailies to only 17.

There has also been a reduction in the number of radio and television broadcasting stations, although the UN no longer reports these statistics. ..................

i find that EXTREMELY hilarious, since exact same thing can be said about usa.  we still have "freedom of speech" and the sort, however all of telvision and radio, and most of the news papers are owned by a dozen or so companies.
5 corporations effictevly control all of the tv in the usa. many of these same companys also hold hundreds of different newspapers.

we still may have several different newspapers, but if theyre all coming from the same owner how will the real message get out?


(Edited by mooseboy84 at 3:36 am on Jan. 12, 2003)

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<<because i f**kin said so>>

Total Posts: 12 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 3:29 am on Jan. 12, 2003 | IP
Patinho



Junior Member
   
So if Castro is the "most successful Communist dictator", that makes him a good leader?

You know who else was a great leader and had many followers? Charles Manson. I guess he was the "most successful psychopath", so he must be a good leader too.

I am not meaning to make fun, it just sounds to me like you are cheering for the "lesser evil".

-----
"Quem quer viver faz magica"
--Guimaraes Rosa

Total Posts: 67 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 4:05 am on Jan. 12, 2003 | IP
Sick



Newbie
   
*"also, that link you provided is called DISinformation. why is it called that? because its conspicously trying argue AGAINST the [relative sucess] of the castro regime."

Takes one to know one I guess.

*"if you scroll down near the bottom, the talk about "teledensity" and say cuba has no phones."

It does not say that at all, Mr. DISinformation.

*"what impact has the embargo had on this?"

Next to none. I think you are confusing an embargo with a blockade. The latter is not in effect, meaning every other country on the planet can trade with Cuba. Why don't they? Because Cuba produces very little to trade, that's why.

*"look at all the facts and ask what impact has the embargo had on them.  those facts all may be true, but you must take them into context. also, if they did not point out every NEGATIVE about cubas growth, then that would be a more credible source.  like i said, its all about context. do you know how many times the cia has tried to kill castro? at least 11 documented times."

As opposed to you highlighting, not to mention exaggerating, Castro's effectiveness? I was the one who put it into context for you. You only presented one side without looking at the history of it. Eleven? Is that all? I think Castro claims something like 17 times. Although, I have never bothered looking at documented proof of the attempts, care to pass your sources along? I would appreciate it.  

*"i find that EXTREMELY hilarious, since exact same thing can be said about usa.  we still have "freedom of speech" and the sort, however all of telvision and radio, and most of the news papers are owned by a dozen or so companies. 5 corporations effictevly control all of the tv in the usa. many of these same companys also hold hundreds of different newspapers."

I hate to burst your bubble, but they are not the 'exact same thing' by any stretch of the imagination. I can't name the five corporations, what are they? Hundreds of different papers? Again, your sources.

*"we still may have several different newspapers, but if theyre all coming from the same owner how will the real message get out?"

And what is that real message? Is there only one? I used to write for a small newspaper in which the parent company owned about 20 similar sized newspapers. The owners of this corporation had positively NO SAY in what each paper published, that was left to the publishers and the editors. You have a very uninformed opinion about the US news media. Gee, ya think over the last 50 years electronic media has had some sort of residual effect on the newspaper publishing industry? Is that what happened in Cuba? I don't think so.

Again I ask you, do the ends justify the means?

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I have the best hair on this website.

Total Posts: 27 | Joined Dec. 2002 | Posted on: 6:55 am on Jan. 12, 2003 | IP
 

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