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Flight 1907: Brazil’s Air Force Rebuffs Colombian Pilot Who Panned Air Controllers

Brazilian aviation authorities told yesterday, October 24, that they had finally found a missing part of the black box from the Boeing 737 that fell in the Amazon jungle on September 29, killing the 154 people aboard, in the worst plane accident ever in Brazil.

The missing piece now encountered is the voice recorder, which aviation experts hope will help determine the facts that led to the collision between a small jet in its maiden voyage to the United States and the Gol’s Boeing 737 and the ensuing tragedy.

The voice recorder, which was buried in the jungle soil and doesn’t seem to have suffered any  damage, was found thanks to a metal detector. The recording device will be taken by Air Force officials to the same experts in Canada where the data recorder was also sent. If everything goes as planned the work on the voice recorder will start Monday, October 30.

Waldir Pires, Brazil’s Defense Minister, told reporters that the investigation will continue in secrecy, which according to him will not only guarantee the good course of the work but also make sure that everything is done according to the norms of international law.

The Brazilian Federal Police were told they will not receive information contained in the black boxes from the Boeing and the Legacy until the investigation is concluded.

Even though the voice recorder has now been retrieved, search teams continue looking for the body of the only victim still not found, Marcelo Paixão Lopes, 29, a manager at the HSBC bank.

Colombian Pilot Disavowed

Earlier in the day, the Air Force Command disputed charges made by Colombian pilot Alexander Gomez, that personnel working in the Brazil’s air traffic control didn’t know enough English to guide the American pilots of the Legacy jet that collided with the Boeing while they tried to find a runway where to land.

Gomez was in the area of the accident and heard the calls for help through the radio. In an interview to Brazilian TV Record, the pilot told that he established a bridge between the Brazilian air control and the Legacy because there were lots of static and interference in the communication and the American pilots couldn’t make themselves understood by the Brazilians.

He also said that the Brazilian Amazon has very bad communication and pilots sometimes are on their own for as much as 15 minutes without being able to talk to anyone on land.

Brazil’s Air Force Communication Center released a note stating that the "Testing Field Brigadier Velloso, organization of the Air Force Command located in Serra do Cachimbo (where the Legacy ended up landing),  neither deals with civilian traffic nor is it an international airport. Therefore, the controllers who work in the unit have no obligation to use the English language, in contrast to what occurs in airports that operate international lines".

The note suggests that Gomez instead of helping the pilot of the small plane made things worse. The problem, according to the Air Force wasn’t that the American pilots and the controllers could not understand each other. They weren’t able to communicate properly because the Colombian pilot was always interfering:

"What happened is that the pilot of the Legacy talked at the same time that the pilot who was making the communication bridge and the controller."  The Air Force praised its controller reminding that "only with the help of the controller the Legacy was able to land safely."

The Air Force also denied Gomez’s charges that is hard to establish radio communications in the Amazon region. Authorities once again informed that soon after the accident an Air Force plane flew over the area and concluded that all the systems were working properly.

Gomez was flying a plane from Miami to São Paulo for the American company Polar Air Cargo. Brazilian authorities still haven’t decided if they will call the pilot to hear his version of the story.

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  • Show Comments (22)

  • Guest

    Your Concience Expat!!!
    Hohhh expat…you bring tears to my eyes!!!
    Out of all your bullshit explanation you attempt to sell, here is the only thing worth an answer.
    À¢€œ I know I have regretted a few personal darts IÀ¢€™ve tossed immediately after pressing the add comment button, thatÀ¢€™s the nature of blogging. Anonymity brings out the worse in individuals.À¢€Â
    No À¢€¦Anonymity brings out the worse in YOUÀ¢€Â and blogging has nothing to do with absence of character. You bring the worse in you!!!

  • ex pat

    brazilAmerican
    Returning to the question of third party observers, just for a second, it is not only the belief of this “silly know-nothing gringo” posting on this forum, but also of the victimÀ¢€™s families.

    ———————————–
    Sexta, 17 de novembro de 2006, 11h40 Atualizada ÀƒÂ s 12h16
    Parentes de vÀƒ­timas querem perito independente para vÀƒ´o 1907

    Maria Clara Cabral
    Direto de BrasÀƒ­lia

    O presidente da associaÀƒ§Àƒ£o dos familiares e amigos das vitimas do vÀƒ´o 1907 da Gol, Jorge AndrÀƒ© Cavalcante, informou que, a partir desta segunda-feira, o grupo estarÀƒ¡ oficialmente constituÀƒ­do e registrado em um cartÀƒ³rio de BrasÀƒ­lia.

    Um dos principais objetivos da associaÀƒ§Àƒ£o Àƒ© ter um perito independente e devidamente capacitado acompanhando as investigaÀƒ§Àƒµes, tanto na AeronÀƒ¡utica, quanto na PolÀƒ­cia Federal.

    “Isso serÀƒ¡ muito importante para a CLAREZA e TRANSPARENCIA dos trabalhos. Queremos acompanhar tudo”, diz Cavalcante.

    A associaÀƒ§Àƒ£o, que terÀƒ¡ representantes em todo o PaÀƒ­s, nÀƒ£o terÀƒ¡ vÀƒ­nculo com nenhuma outra associaÀƒ§Àƒ£o. Eles informam que pretendem tambÀƒ©m pleitear mais auxÀƒ­lio da companhia Gol.

    Segundo os parentes, a ajuda mÀƒ©dico-psicolÀƒ³gica sÀƒ³ estÀƒ¡ sendo prestada a familiares diretos das vitimas. “Agradecemos o auxÀƒ­lio da Gol, mas entendemos que ele precisa ser estendido, a netos e sobrinhos da vitimas, por exemplo”, explica Cavalcante.

    A intenÀƒ§Àƒ£o da AssociaÀƒ§Àƒ£o tambÀƒ©m Àƒ© exigir a apuraÀƒ§Àƒ£o em todas as esferas administrativas e judiciais das causas da tragÀƒ©dia. A partir de segunda, diz a nota oficial do grupo, a “luta pelo esclarecimento dos fatos estarÀƒ¡ intensificada”. “Queremos tambÀƒ©m ser ouvidos, nos aproximar e ter legitimidade”, completa Cavalcante.

    Ontem, apÀƒ³s reuniÀƒ£o com o coronel Rufino AntÀƒ´nio, responsÀƒ¡vel pelas investigaÀƒ§Àƒµes do CENIPA (Centro de InvestigaÀƒ§Àƒ£o e PrevenÀƒ§Àƒ£o de Acidentes AeronÀƒ¡uticos), em que um relatÀƒ³rio preliminar foi apresentado, os familiares saÀƒ­ram com a promessa de que os encontros com as autoridades serÀƒ£o periÀƒ³dicos.

  • ex pat

    brazilamerica
    Oh BrazilAmerica, why is it that the knee-jerk default response to any criticism of Brazil is to compare it with the US? IÀ¢€™m not an American, have no real love affair with America, have never lived in America, nor care to, and have just as many criticisms and dislikes about the current administration and the countryÀ¢€™s prosaic À¢€œin God we trustÀ¢€Â militant lifestyle as the next. I also have a great deal of respect for them and their technological contributions to the world, and the individuals that DONÀ‚´T buy into the hype and fight to right wrongs. However, none of that has anything to do with the current topic at hand, now does it?

    When you use the À¢€œwell look at what they doÀ¢€Â response to any criticism directed internally, you not only dismiss the issue out of hand but you actually, unwittingly, approve of the problems in your home land. In your eyes, no matter how bad it is here, it is worse somewhere else, so ipso facto everything is just peachy. Bullocks! Do you not see the fundamental flaw in your reasoning?

    When I referred to having a À¢€œpublicÀ¢€Â investigation, maybe the phrasing was incorrect and the word À¢€œpublicÀ¢€Â should be substituted for À¢€œtransparentÀ¢€Â. WeÀ¢€™re not talking about allowing any Joao or Paulo access to the information, it is about being reassured that the investigative methodology is objective and to do this one needs a third party impartial observer. I referred earlier to the media (the usual role for the fourth estate), with specific publication bans in place in terms of reporting (it does work in other countries contrary to your micro-focused view of just two) However, I must back-track here and exclude them (believing that the media in Brazil would never honor a publication ban) and put forth the idea of an investigator from another country (not the US or Brazil) to follow along. At least, if the investigations were being stymied because of political reasons (as I am of the mind thinking) fears about À¢€œprocessÀ¢€Â could be ameliorated. Secrecy, does not allow this; hence, all the speculation.

    And yes, you can harp on all you like about Rummy’s secrecy (may the flees of a thousand Arab camels infest his pubic hairs) and the lack of information coming from his ex-band of merry war-mongers, but what does that have to do with making the skies over Brazil safer; or what comfort does that give the families of the victims of the 154?

    You may chastise foreign posters over their lack of knowledge regarding Brazil, however you have singled yourself out as well as being uninformed about your own nation. To say that the US and the CIA À¢€œimplantedÀ¢€Â (look up the definition of that word) the dictatorship in 64 is a historically erroneous (although sadly, widely believed) account of what actually happened during the reign and fall of Jango. We could go at this here, but again, this blog is about the flight À¢€“ so I suggest you look up any book by Elio Gaspari on this subject.

    Now before you call me naÀƒ¯ve, IÀ¢€™ll concede one further point on this subject and that yes it is a proven historical fact that Johnson et.al were faithfully following the Monroe doctrine in the region at the time, and that Lincoln Gordon was the man on the ground looking to aid ANYONE against J.G (and Johnson basically gave him a blank cheque), however as the events unfolded none of the coaching or assistance was ever needed, and the coupe ended up being of true national design. Branco didnÀ¢€™t even know he would backed by the US, until his tanks were firmly roaming the streets of Rio.

    On a final note, yes some posters, including yours truly, can come across as quite caustic and in many instances outright RUDE. This probably stems from, admittedly, a smidgen xenophobia (of which no nation is exempt) but MORESO from dealing with the true troglodytes that spoil any form of decent discourse on this board with their chest-pounding nationalism and completely incomprehensible school-yard tirades. Iˢ۪m NOT singling out any nationality here, but can see from where the preponderance of child-like prodding stems. I know I have regretted a few personal darts Iˢ۪ve tossed immediately after pressing the add comment button, thatˢ۪s the nature of blogging. Anonymity brings out the worse in individuals.

    I have the utmost respect for many things Brazilian (althoug itmay not always show), but there are some things, as IÀ¢€™m sure you know, that need to be dragged out from under the carpet and ridiculed out of existence.

  • me


    As an extremist left wing and overly verbose blogger who doesn’t know Brazil from a hole in the ground, quoting an “extremist right wing tv talk show host” says: À¢€œIÀ¢€™ll give you the last wordÀ¢€Â. I am signing off.

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 8
    Ex pat wrote:

    À¢€œOf course he would. Have you EVER heard an individual, politician, corporation or public worker in Brazil assume responsibility for anything? Or admit internationally (and thereÀ¢€™s the rub) that the great republic of Brazil may have a few deficiencies? À¢€œ
    > How about substituting the word US for the word Brazil above? Would that not be true as well? The richest and most powerful country in the world admits nothing. Come on read the news!! Or are you one of those right wing radicals?

    À¢€œI think we need to replace “ordem e progresso” on the flag with “nÀƒ£o foi eu”. It would be far more representative of the reality in 21st century Brazil. À¢€œ
    > LOL! I wonder what you would consider more representative of the reality in the 21st Century America with the kind of Administration current in power.

    As an extremist right wing tv talk show host says: À¢€œIÀ¢€™ll give you the last wordÀ¢€Â. I am signing off.

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 7
    Ex Pat wrote:

    when it was PERFECTLY FINE to have a public investigation when early speculations were
    > You have no idea of what you are talking about, really. What is a public investigation? No one in the public will investigate the accident. The public can only speculate. Now, if by a public investigation you mean one in which the people assigned to investigate the facts will release every little detail to the press. Forget about it! It never happened. Never happened in Brazil or any other country for that matter.

    À¢€œthose damn yanks did itÀ¢€Â? À¢€œ
    > Well, if you read this entire posting, you read what I said about the À¢€œpatternÀ¢€Â of impunity when it comes to the mishaps of Americans abroad. It seems like when some Americans go abroad, they may think that they can do whatever they want without any consequences to them. This is just bad and in part answers the question that some ask: À¢€œWhy do they hate us?À¢€Â

    The opinion of some in Brazil are as follows:
    À¢€œThe young American pilots, when piloting what is considered to be the À¢€œFerrariÀ¢€Â of private Jets, together with the long held belief that the Amazon is no manÀ¢€™s land, and the ATC in the region is poor, decided to turn off the JetÀ¢€™s transponder so they could not be detected by the radar, and climbed to an altitude that belong to larger commercial jets. They probably thought, there was nothing other than Rain Forest in the area. À¢€œ

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 6
    Ex Pat wrote:

    À¢€œAmerican in Rio ,
    I agree with most of what you wrote with the exception of this..
    À¢€œAnd, keeping the investigation “secret” until it’s completed makes sense.À¢€Â

    Sorry, but all investigations need to be public. If you have a problem with a naÀƒ¯ve and speculative media, you can place a publication ban on certain aspects of the case until the conclusions are made public, but at least the media were along forthe ride. But to hide away in a hole and conduct a serious and credible investigation without a critically watchful eye in this country is an invitation for disaster. The public process may be messy, but at least it is open to criticism and correction if need be.
    > I disagree. All investigations are done, in any part of the world, by the investigators in charge, be they the NTSA, FBI, CIA, BTF, or the Brazilian Federal Police, and as far as I know the investigators donˢ۪t start advertising what they know to the press before the investigation is completed. When the investigations are completed, if there is enough reason for a criminal indictment, the reasons are brought up by the prosecutor to the court. If the case goes to trial, all that was uncovered during the investigations are brought up for everyone to see. Investigations are not to be disclosed to the public before all the facts are uncovered!

    But since you mention secrecy by the government how about the fact that the Vice President refuses to release the most basic information about his office to the American people. The Office of the Vice President, refuses to answer simple questions as: How many people work for him? What connections do they have to the oil and gas industry? What kind of budget does the office has? And so on and so forth.

    À¢€œThe big question for me is why the need for secrecy at this juncture of the investigation, (when more and more evidence is pointing to a series of mishaps and miscommunications),
    > Where do you see this evidence? From what I just read in this website, an article dated Nov 14, 2006 (Today), there is no indication of miscommunications. Note that the transponder of the Legacy was either defective or had been turned off and despite Brasiliaˢ۪s ATC attempts to communicate with the Legacy for over 30 minutes before the accident happened, the Legacy only started to communicate when they were in need of help to find a safe place to land.

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 5 (Mainly for PFE)
    PFE wrote:

    À¢€œWhatever with your 20 years of study. You should quit while you’re ahead HM, because it’s just not working out for you. À¢€œ
    > PFE, I have to say, youˢ۪re just rude and ignorant. And I am being rhetorically generous to you so far.

    À¢€œBrazil is handling this HORRIBLY!!
    > And your source of information is exactly what? Probably the same sources that Ex Pat and Ch. C are using.

    À¢€œTo begin to treat these pilots as criminals is total BS.À¢€Â
    > Unlike the prisoners in Gitmo, who have been incommunicado for many years now without being formally accused of anything and without access to an attorney or books on the American laws and justice system, Brazil is not yet treating the pilots as criminals. Putting them in 5 star hotels, from what I hear, is far from being in a prison in Cuba.

    À¢€œTheir ATC system is primitive at best, and their controllers do typically have horrible accents. À¢€œ
    > From this statement I can figure what your country of origin is. You are judgmental and have antiquated pre-conceived notions about other countries, including of course, Brazil. For your information, the ATC system in Brazil in general and in the Brazilian Amazon is one of the most modern in the world, and I mean, as some say, À¢€œthe civilized worldÀ¢€Â. A few years ago, Brazil modernized its entire ATC system and the index of accidents, contrary to what some like you may think, is very low. Per capita, probably lower than that of the US.

    Corrupt ass third-world country. À¢€œ
    > Again, as I told Ch. C., wash your mouth when you talk about Brazil, you moron! You clearly speak through your ass and has demonstrated that you are a complete idiot. The difference between you and me is that, I come from a À¢€œthird-worldÀ¢€Â country but am a first class citizen of the world whereas, youÀ¢€¦, I donÀ¢€™t know where you come from but you clearly express yourself as a À¢€œthird-worldÀ¢€Â person.

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 4
    Ch. c. wrote:

    The Brazilian “Justice” has NOT seized the passports from the ATC, but it was the first thing they did to the US pilots. Another demonstration of the Brazilian Unfairness
    and Injustice !
    > You keep showing your ignorance. The ATC you refer to is that of a Brazilian military base! They are all Brazilian citizens and they are not going anywhere. The passport of the American pilots were seized because Brazil has no extradition treaty with the US. And you know what would happen if they didnÀ¢€™t? They would return to the US and that would have been the end to it, because unlike what Ex Pat says about Brazil, is the US who fights with tooth and nail for all its citizens around the world, irregardless of what they may have done to others. Do I need to site a few examples? Take for example the accident in which an American military plane from the Aviano Air Base in Italy, got hooked by the cable of a gondola in a sky resort while flying extremely low. Eyewitness described that the plane was doing acrobatic maneuvers right before the accident. In other words, the military pilots were À¢€œplayingÀ¢€Â with the plane and caused the accident. Now, ask what happened to the pilots? They got a slap on the wrist by the American Military Justice system. And how about the accident in which an American submarine commander emerged the sub too fast, without knowing if there were any crafts above it and hit a Japanese fishing trolley killing a few dozen Japanese citizens. Ask about what happened to the Admiral commander of the sub? He just lost his Admiral post/title and then retired.
    The Brazilian government, identifying the pattern, rightly confiscated the pilotsˢ۪ passports. Well done!

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 3
    Ch. c. wrote:

    À¢€œTypically brazilian.À¢€Â
    > You have no clue of what typically Brazilian is.

    À¢€œIf a foreigner is killed in Brazil, the Brazilian Justice and authorities will take the defense and the side of the Brazilian murderer, just as they took defense and provided impunity and absolved all the corrupted politicians, recognized as guilty by the investigators.
    So disgusting that several investigators resigned. À¢€œ
    > You will not see me here saying that there is no corruption and much less impunity in Brazil. Yes, there is a lot of that. Now, tell me what country doesnˢ۪t have their share of corruption and impunity? I would be happy if you provide me with one such country. One thing that I can tell you though is that Brazil did not invent corruption. The US of A was well on its way into rampant corruption in the beginning of the century and the subsequent stock market crash. Still today, corruption and scandals abound in the land of the free. I shouldnˢ۪t even have to mention you, Enron, MCI-WorldCom, CA, and many others in the corporate world as well as many in the government, most notably the recent Jack Abramov scandal. At least, in Brazil, Iˢ۪ve never heard of stories of Congress People soliciting sex from minors.

    Now, remember the infamous murder of a Brazilian citizen at NY Central Park while she was jogging? Was the murderer ever brought to justice? I think not. And what about the internationally acclaimed Brazilian composer Tom Jobim, that unexplicably died in a NY hospital. If I recall correctly his death was attributed to an infection acquired at the hospital.

    On the other hand, around 4 or 5 years ago, a young lady of Danish citizenship was murdered in Rio de Janeiro by the janitor of the building she was staying in Ipanema. With full cooperation of Rioˢ۪s police they arrested the criminal. Later, when the ladyˢ۪s parents came to transport her body back to Denmark, they completely exonerated the City and the country by saying that this kind of murder could have happened anywhere in the world.

    À¢€œ Brazil is really a Tropical mud and avoiding such a country is avoiding problems ! À¢€œ
    > Clean your mouth before you talk about Brazil ok pal! I donˢ۪t know if youˢ۪ve been to Brazil or not but one thing is for sure: If you have or you were born there, DONˢ۪T COME BACK! Brazil does not need people like you, so keep off!

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 2
    Ch. c. wrote:

    À¢€œ….Pires said investigations will continue in secrecy…..and then then explain openly what happened ! Strange secrecy, strange view, strange type of justice ! À¢€œ
    > Again, my answer to Ex pat applies here. No, they donˢ۪t explain what happened, this is an investigation, and they will explain what their conclusion was! All investigations that I know of in Brazil or in any other country. Now, tell me where you are from and Iˢ۪ll tell you how is justice done in your country, ok!

    À¢€œNow it looks like, as per the Defense Minister own words, that it is no longer the US pilots responsible….but the Colombian pilot ! À¢€œ
    > I would assume that since this disaster is such a serious matter and affected the lives of hundreds of people, that you are not trying to be funny here, so I must conclude that you are on either crack or cocaine.

    À¢€œHow many people will brazilian authorities and apparent experts continue to accuse openly…..before the official investigations and eventual counter investigations are over ????? À¢€œ
    > By this statement, you show that you have not read anything about what Brazilians are saying. Perhaps you donˢ۪t even know Portuguese that explains the lack of information or even misunderstanding on your part. In no public media I have seen any Brazilian authorities accuse anybody. The Brazilian public, understandably, have their own opinions of the accident but they are not the investigating authorities. Before you say something that makes you look stupid, investigate the facts and post your references! Donˢ۪t come to this forum and start spreading lies of your own making.

    À¢€œThis just shows once more the Brazil Xenophobia and not the US Xenophobia as one article headline said on this same site a few days ago ! À¢€œ
    > Hello! Where have you been? Wake up and smell the coffee! It is not just Brazil, it is most of the world these days!!! And yes, I am including Europe too! That is, À¢€œthe civilized WorldÀ¢€Â as the American media refers to.

    À¢€œThis also shows that Brazilian authorities open and straightforward accusations, before the end of the investigatons, are the ones to be blamed. À¢€œ
    > At this point, youˢ۪ve completely lost your credibility. Stop spreading lies and stop talking about something you have no knowledge about.

  • Paulo

    A note about Ex. Pat, Ch. C, and PFE comments – Part 1
    Yesterday I was looking for information on the terrible accident of last September in Brazil and I came across for the first time to this website and to this forum.

    I was shocked and filled with indignation, as I read some of the most outrageous postings that I have seen. The postings showed total lack of information, common sense, understanding and knowledge of Brazil and of the flaws of the posters own country(ies) of origin.

    Specifically, I am referring to the preposterous postings by the following individuals, code named: ex pat, ch. c., and PFE. These 3 jerks need to learn to respect other peopleˢ۪s countries before they start demonstrating in a public forum their own ignorance and stupidity.

    Hereˢ۪s why:

    Ex pat wrote:

    À¢€œ”Gomez was flying a plane from Miami to SÀƒ£o Paulo for the American company Polar Air Cargo. Brazilian authorities still haven’t decided if they will call the pilot to hear his version of the story.”
    Selective investigating? Christ, the columbiam pilot is the closest thing resembling a third party witness and authorities arenÀ‚´t sure they want to talk with him? Me thinks something smells fishy here.À¢€Â
    > As it says, the Brazilian authorities are still investigating the issue, and they will make the determination of whether or not they will interview the Colombian pilot. From what I have read so far, there was no communication between the Colombian pilot and either the pilot of the 737 or of the Legacy before the accident. It seems like the role of the Colombian pilot comes into play when the pilots of the Legacy were attempting to land on a Brazilian Air Force base. Furthermore, it seems that in an attempt to help the communication, he may have made it more difficult because neither the Legacy pilot nor the ATC could hear each other due to the interference of the Colombian pilot. Therefore, if I were you, I would shut up, speak less and try to get better informed before saying anything, just because of your pre-conceived notions of Brazil. Or may be you think like that because you know how things are in your own country and you automatically applied those feelings in this situation.

    Ex pat wrote:

    “Waldir Pires, Brazil’s Defense Minister, told reporters that the investigation will continue in secrecy”

    Be afraid. Be VERY VERY afraid.

    > Why? Again, trying to apply the lessons youˢ۪ve learned in your own country to Brazil? Iˢ۪ll tell you what, secrecy existed in Brazil for over 30 years due to the military dictatorship implanted in Brazil by the American Government and its CIA. Fortunately, those times are long gone. What Brazilˢ۪s Defense Minister is doing is to conduct its investigation as any other country would and not readily advertising their incomplete conclusions to the press while the investigation process is going on. Those people conducting the investigation, as in any criminal investigation, should not be pressed or influenced by a speculative media that sometimes is more interested in sensationalism to sell whatever they sell then getting to the truth. Kudos to Mr. Waldir Pires.

  • American in Rio

    ex pat:
    I understand what you’re saying but I’m thinking of how these are handled in the US. I can’t remember NTSA and FAA making much information available until the investigations conclusion.
    In either case, I wouldn’t want to be one of the Legacy’s pilots with the Federal Police involved, etc. If there was pilot error, it’s a big jump to call it criminal negligence.

  • ex pat

    “Flight 1907: Brazil’s Air Force REBUFFS Colombian Pilot Who Panned Air Controllers”

    Of course he would. Have you EVER heard an individual, politician, corporation or public worker in Brazil assume responsibility for anything? Or admit internationally (and thereˢ۪s the rub) that the great republic of Brazil may have a few deficiencies?

    I think we need to replace “ordem e progresso” on the flag with “nÀƒ£o foi eu”. It would be far more representative of the reality in 21st century Brazil.

  • ex pat

    Yes and no
    American in Rio

    I agree with most of what you wrote with the exception of this..

    À¢€œAnd, keeping the investigation “secret” until it’s completed makes sense.À¢€Â

    Sorry, but all investigations need to be public. If you have a problem with a naÀƒ¯ve and speculative media, you can place a publication ban on certain aspects of the case until the conclusions are made public, but at least the media were along forthe ride. But to hide away in a hole and conduct a serious and credible investigation without a critically watchful eye in this country is an invitation for disaster. The public process may be messy, but at least it is open to criticism and correction if need be.

    The big question for me is why the need for secrecy at this juncture of the investigation, (when more and more evidence is pointing to a series of mishaps and miscommunications), when it was PERFECTLY FINE to have a public investigation when early speculations were À¢€œthose damn yanks did itÀ¢€Â?

  • American in Rio

    Obviously the “Columbian” pilot should be interviewed. And, keeping the investigation “secret” until it’s completed makes sense. It doesn’t serve anyone to have daily speculation and helps even less to have the Federal Police involved.
    But I was struck by one thing. The “Columbian” pilot, who I had previously thought was flying a small plane was apparently piloting a Polar Air Cargo 747. That means his level of experience, as a pilot, is very, very high and therefore his comments should be taken very seriously.

  • Guest

    alltheway
    Ddespite all the criticism re Brasil and avaition, its always amazes me that most of the planes I fly on in the US are manufactured in Brasil ..

  • PFE

    If you do not understand the English language, do not criticize others…
    Whatever with your 20 years of study. You should quit while you’re ahead HM, because it’s just not working out for you. Brazil is handling this HORRIBLY!! To begin to treat these pilots as criminals is total BS. Their ATC system is primitive at best, and their controllers do typically have horrible accents. Corrupt ass third-world country.

  • HM

    If you do not understand the english language do not comment on the articles
    I read the above article and no where in it did I read Mr Pires said that the accident was “no longer the US pilots responsibe(ility)—-but the colombian pilot!” The english language is not difficult to understand if it is ones’ first language and articles are read and understood without interpretations the first time. Before interpretations occur, one should read all articles a second time without any preconceive bias.

    The conversations that the Mr Pires referred to between the colombian pilot, the Legacy pilots and the Brazilian Airforce Traffic Controllers took place after the accident had occurred. At that time the Legacy pilots were looking for an airport on which they could land their aircraft.

    I have read a number of articles on this site and know for a fact that a lot gets lost in the translation from portuguese to english. If english is your first language you would recognize that fact also when you read the articles. That is why a second and sometime a third reading is important.

    Please stop the misinterpretations unless that is your goal. I have read a lot of your comments and I am not impress with 99.9% of them. A part of 0.1% that I agreed with was on the article “Ten Steps to End Brazil’s Inequality and Backwardness” and even in that comment you messed up, then later corrected yourself.

    I am neither brazilian, american or british, but I studied both british and american english for over 20 year.

  • ch.c.

    funny….
    ….Pires said investigations will continue in secrecy…..and then then explain openly what happened ! Strange secrecy, strange view, strange type of justice !

    Now it looks like, as per the Defense Minister own words, that it is no longer the US pilots responsible….but the Colombian pilot !

    How many people will brazilian authorities and apparent experts continue to accuse openly…..before the official investigations and eventual counter investigations are over ?????

    This just shows once more the Brazil Xenophobia and not the US Xenophobia as one article headline said on this same site a few days ago !

    This also shows that Brazilian authorities open and straightforward accusations, before the end of the investigatons, are the ones to be blamed.

    Typically brazilian. If a foreigner is killed in Brazil, the Brazilian Justice and authorities will take the defense and the side of the Brazilian murderer, just as they took defense and provided impunity and absolved all the corrupted politicians, recognized as guilty by the investigators.
    So disgusting that several investigators resigned.

    Brazil is really a Tropical mud and avoiding such a country is avoiding problems !

    The Brazilian “Justice” has NOT seized the passports from the ATC, but it was the first thing they did to the US pilots. Another demonstration of the Brazilian Unfairness
    and Injustice !

  • ex pat

    “Waldir Pires, Brazil’s Defense Minister, told reporters that the investigation will continue in secrecy”

    Be afraid. Be VERY VERY afraid.

  • ex pat

    “Gomez was flying a plane from Miami to SÀƒ£o Paulo for the American company Polar Air Cargo. Brazilian authorities still haven’t decided if they will call the pilot to hear his version of the story.”

    Selective investigating? Christ, the columbiam pilot is the closest thing resembling a third party witness and authorities arenÀ‚´t sure they want to talk with him? Me thinks something smells fishy here.

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