Disappointed Brazil Wants WTO to Keep Trying to Reach Global Agreement

Brazil's foreign minister, Celso Amorim Pascal Lamy, the head of the World Trade Organization admitted  that the marathon talks in Geneva aimed at liberalizing global trade have collapsed. Officials have blamed China, India and the US for failing to agree on import rules.

EU Trade Commissioner Peter Mandelson said the result was "heartbreaking" and Brazil's Foreign Affairs minister Celso Amorim described the situation as "disappointing" and called for "another try."

The talks were launched in 2001 in Doha and were seen as providing a cornerstone for future global trade.

The main stumbling block was farm import rules, which allow countries to protect poor farmers by imposing a tariff on certain goods in the event of a drop in prices or a surge in imports.

India, China and the US could not agree on the tariff threshold for such an event. Washington said that the "safeguard clause" protecting developing nations from unrestricted imports had been set too low.

The negotiations floundered as trade officials gathered for a ninth day.

"There's no use beating around the bush, this meeting has collapsed," Mr Lamy said. "Members have simply not been able to bridge their differences." He added that time was needed to determine "if and how" WTO members could end the stalemate.

The Doha development round of trade talks initially started in 2001 with the aim of remedying inequality so that the developing world could benefit more from freer trade.

However, the talks have repeatedly collapsed as developed countries failed to agree with developing nations on terms of access to each others' markets.

The US and the European Union want greater access to provide services to fast-growing emerging countries, including China and India. Meanwhile, developing countries want greater access for their agricultural products in Europe and the US.

Analysts have said that the collapse of the Doha talks could symbolize an end to multilateral trade agreements.

Instead, nations may pursue dual agreements with partner nations, preferring to focus on their own requirements rather than a more common negotiating goal.

The talks in Geneva were complicated by recent increases in the price of food and fuel.

Higher prices have prompted protests in both developed and developing nations, making it harder for negotiators to reach a compromise on opening up their markets to greater competition, analysts said.

Mr Mandelson, the EU trade commissioner, blamed the collapse on a "collective failure" but warned that the "consequences would not be equal," predicting that it would be countries that most needed help that would be hit hardest.

"They [the consequences] will fall disproportionately on those who are most vulnerable in the global economy, those who needed the chances, the opportunities most from a successful trade round." he said.

Trade officials had struck an optimistic tone on Friday, but this evaporated over the weekend amid acrimonious exchanges with the US accusing India and China of blocking progress.

The US said they were being overly protective towards their own farmers and are failing to do enough to open their markets, with US trade representative Susan Schwab calling the stance "blatant protectionism."

"In the face of the global food price crisis, it is ironic that the debate came down to how much and how fast could nations raise their barriers to imports of food" she said.

But India's trade minister, Kamal Nath, who had been criticized by a number of countries for his intransigence said the US demands were unreasonable.

"It's unfortunate in a development round we couldn't run the last mile because of an issue concerning livelihood security," Mr Nath said.

WTO "should make another try" said Brazilian Foreign Affairs Minister Celso Amorim.

"I am very disappointed that we were unable to finish the round; I would not have thought that everything would hinge on the special safeguard measures," added Amorim.

Lamy's decision to call the summit was a gamble aimed at pressing key governments in the 153-member WTO to bridge divisions in a short period. He told negotiators last month that without an accord on agriculture and industrial goods by the end of July, the chances for a successful conclusion to the trade round were less than 50%.



  • Show Comments (41)

  • dnbaiacu

    Thank You Augustus.
    We shall meet again on another thread as this one is getting L O S T. 🙂

  • dnbaiacu

    Excellent! Excellent!
    Actually we have more in our disdain for religion IN GENERAL than you may have thought. Your essay was GREAT!
    You see, you don’t as of yet understand my real position as it relates to this topic. You probably assumed that I embrace the superstitions and general mularky that prevails in “religion” historically. Our major difference is probably in belief that the Bible has any credibility. ON THIS we can agree to disagree. But on a deeper investigation you may find it interesting to discover that in the book of Revelation the “supposed God of the Bible” takes your same position on the disdain of religion. (Chapters 17 and 18) And ultimately “religion the “whore” as depicted in the Bible and described by you to great effects summarizes religions GREAT and CORRUPT involvement in political/governmental issues. For this reason a truly intelligent person, or one that does not want to remain “oblivious” to what is going on will never be able to completely avoid the subject and insist on being able to comprehend history OR current events well.
    Anyway, I enjoy your input, for you do have much to say, and most of it quite interesting and informative 🙂

  • dnbaiacu

    Fine with me Augustus.
    What is beautiful about the topic we agreeing NOT to discuss is that in the end it all comes down to what you “choose” to believe. Although I was anticipating further discussion because I LOVE IT! And I wanted to leave more homework for you or anyone else on the panel to research. After this my case is closed.
    Influential Occult Secret Societies That Historically Acknowledge [b]Other[/b] Intelligent Life Forms
    Skulls And Bones
    Knights Templar
    Trilateral Commission
    Just to name a few
    Maybe someone else is interested in researching just how heavily involved these groups ( and this is just a few in the WESTERN WORLD) have impacted history the world. Their ultimate goal having the masses in “disbelief” just like yourself, putting them in positions that set the status quo for academics and the field of science. They’ve achieved their end for the most part…
    And I am not so sure that you aren’t VERY AWARE of this yourself.. Possibly more than I. 😉 Who really knows?….
    Your Non interest in “religion” is EXACTLY part of the bigger plan. We will all see soon enough. And as those whose eyes are open should already be noticing.

    Sorry , but I have no time to indulge in talk over such tax revenue wasting rituals that you have mentioned. A terrific mess is what that is. Money could be better spent on education or feeding the poor.
    Cheers to you also

  • dnbaiacu

    Do some research Augustus
    Do you know the most of the U.S presidents are members of the Masons? A reknown “Occult Science ” organization with a very long history. In the higher degrees of their ranks they espouse the very ideas you so hastily question. ( major use of the stars ,, and for what reason?)
    I will leave you to marinate on this.. It’s pretty much self-explanatory.

  • dnbaiacu

    [quote]NowÀ¢€¦ would you NOT have any comments on the remaining of portions of my views, which were expressly intended for YOU, despite my eager efforts to explain and address all issues questioned before?[/quote]
    I am glad you understand my mistakes are made in the exact work settings as you described. But I do need to work on not being so hasty and proofend especially while debating with someone who has the time to give me a complete essay on the theory that I had to painful endure in grade school.
    It takes just as much faith if not more so to believe that the order in the universe just “happened” especially when we don’t see anything of order in sequence such as beautiful home “just happening” to appear today or at any other point in observable history.
    My cybername is the letter of my first intial with the letter N meaning “in”. And Baiacu happens to be the name of a section of an island my family is from in Brazil. Yes , it is just a “pufferfish” but I love locale. 😉
    [quote]To this I make comparison to the ancient Prophets and/or Seers in Ancient Greece, who allegedly possessed magical powersÀ¢€¦ Simply put, I believe that certain elements of the human population are slightly ahead along the evolutionary path, and are in a position to access certain extra-senses, which primitive cultures, when observing them in action, cannot help but to attribute to one type of Divinity OR ANOTHERÀ¢€¦
    ItÀ¢€™s natural for primitive civilizations and/or ignorant individuals to make such an automatic association, as they À¢€œcould not know any betterÀ¢€Â[/quote]
    Now really Augustus,, did you just make any sense to YOURSELF?
    The most “evolution promoting cable science television programs , scientists , and anthropologists, don’t come to such a conclusion. In fact , most prefer to intelligent call it a “mystery” , in other words they can’t “scientifically explain it. It is what it is. Unexplored terriotory. Especially when it forces one to considered that there may be other life forms indiscernible to the human eyes.
    Wouldn’t it be interesting and surprising to find out that the “movers and shakers” of the world of times past “deliberately promoted the various theories of evolution, moral relativism , and such , just to insure that the majority remain “ignorant” of the fact that there are greater forces guiding the human path to self destruction? That is where we are headed aren’t we, if left up to these intelligent “movers and shakers” that offer no real explanation or purpose to our existence. And we certainly aren’t evolving for the better, wouldn’t you agree.? So much science and they can’t even “agree” and make a solid business plan on how to feed people. (WTO) It appears that much of the current “chaos” is mans inablity or desire to decide on a common “moral code”. Such a notion of course being totally repulsive to an atheist or agnostic.
    Just something to think about 😉

  • dnbaiacu

    Something definetly lacking on the part of most today.
    Yes,, I am just plain stupid. I did it again. 😀 😀 😀 😀
    I will get better. I promise!

  • dnbaiacu

    I need to start proofreading my work….
    [quote]Something definetly on the part most today [/quote]
    I know 🙂 🙂
    I’m a newbie. I get so excited. It’s fun! 😉
    Different views.. It makes the world go around.
    [quote] IÀ¢€™m exceedingly proud of most of my ancestors and what the glorious European (and even Colonial) Past they represent (although some aspects thereof are considered objectionable, when examined under the prism of Modern moralityÀ¢€¦ [/quote]
    Interesting comment. And bold.
    But truth is , all societies have done their dirt.. It’s a HUMAN thing. But we must admit that we are endowed with “consciences” for a reason. Wonder where that comes from? That’s why MAN bothers to make LAWS. We NATURALLY consider some things just plain WRONG. And this is in ANY society.
    Take away a “conscience” and we are animals that are strictly operating by instinct. We can all see we are just “LITTLE bit above that overall” … But have you ever asked yourself ..
    I am not asking you to respond. It is just that those of us that DO believe in INTELLIGENT DESIGN can go toe to toe with anyone on the other side of the fence. 😉

  • dnbaiacu

    I know that there are atheists and agnostics and I respect their opinions. In fact those of that persuasion are not so adversely affected by many of the “myth-like'”teachings masked as biblical concepts that prevail in the world today.

    But you must agree that your quotes from Sir Williams Woodsworth the poet are no more noteworthy than the lyricist King David in Psalms. Although it must be noted that his penned words have historically covered a wider range of influence than Woodsworth.
    Don’t discount what you may consider “myths” so hastiliy. As these myths may help you in understanding the current and future geo-politic and economic situation.
    The world of the “unseen” is all relevant. What do you think explains demonic possession? It does exist. Take a trip to Bahia and witness a Candomble ceremony. Or better yet an excorcist event at a Catholic church. Or “speaking in tongues” at the” Assembleia de Deus.”
    At my discretion I will decide whether or not to quote scripture. All eyes aren’t “blind” on this panel. Maybe silent with comments. But not blind. Let the readers discern what makes sense for themselves. It’s all fair game. And the variety of opinions coupled with good data and facts, promotes THINKING.
    Something definetly on the part most today 😉

  • dnbaiacu

    Cross reference
    4À‚ Do not incline my heart to anything bad,
    So as to carry on notorious deeds in wickedness
    With men who are practicing what is hurtful,
    That I may not feed myself on their dainties.
    Psalm 141:4
    Arrogance is so not cool


  • dnbaiacu

    You are right Joao.. It’s about to get started. 😀
    I hope they stick to business though. The horrific history of colonization is too sensitive to be arguing about and pointless.
    Reminds me of Proverbs 23:1-3
    23 In case you should sit down to feed yourself with a king, you should diligently consider what is before you, 2À‚ and you must put a knife to your throat if you are the owner of soul[ful desire]. 3À‚ Do not show yourself craving his tasty dishes, as it is the food of lies.

    [quote]As for the À¢€œmost important segments of my direct ancestorsÀ¢€Â, if they were to be examined in comparison to yours – ch-c – I strongly suspect that the distinction found would be strikingÀ¢€¦ Many of mine actually lived in manor houses [/quote]

    “Manors” = “Nobility” , “kings” what have you. ====== “food of lies”.
    They all got there by corruption and blood. Absolutely nothing to be bragging about or proud of. 😉

  • George

    The problems with liberalizing global trade
    India, China, and the US are some of the largest importers and exporters in the world. It is hard to find an agreement that won’t make all countries prosperous from the deal. No wonder trade restrictions haven’t been able to drop.


    dnbaiacu – way too much information — yet I managed to translate pending issue
    I do get “carried away” on some subjects… as such, it’s totally understandable your feeling LOST 😀

    However, to close the pending issue (which I had promise you – above), I checked dictionaries and managed to obtain a fairly acceptable translation for the previous passage in Latin, which would interest you:

    LATIN = Itaque Deus nunquam edidit miraculum ad atheismum convincendum, quoniam opera eius ordinaria huic rei sufficiunt
    Suggested translation = Therefore, god never announces miracles to reject Atheism, whereas working in a rather ordinary fashion which suffices the purpose

    It was a great pleasure exchanging views with you.


    Nearly logical, almost acceptable… Special cosiderations for Dnbaiacu (and Double-Dot)
    Esteemed Dnbaiacu

    It must be immediately expressed that engaging into intellectual discussions with you (and, naturally also, with the illustrious À¢€œDouble-DotÀ¢€Â), represents not only a great pleasure for my intellectual persona, but also an amazing surprise about your very existence! Indeed I must (again) confess having presumed that intelligent, eloquent, and educated discussions in the language of Shakespeare, Francis Bacon and William Wordsworth, with Brazilian gentlemen to be exceedingly unlikely! The fact that not just one, but two of any such À¢€œimplausibleÀ¢€Â individuals have been found, does not cease to amaze & inspire meÀ¢€¦

    Regarding the actual contents of your most recent À¢€œreplyÀ¢€Â, I must concede that they were early acceptable, actually. As such, after some consideration, I have decided to issue the appropriate À¢€œrhetorical licenseÀ¢€Â to you (and by extension also to Double-Dot) in as much as expressing (to me directly) issues belonging to criteria which I deem À¢€œquestionableÀ¢€Â. Naturally the criterion of À¢€œfaithÀ¢€Â, which, as already explained, is exceedingly disagreeable and overbearing to me, is also included (though, I fear I may live to regret this unusual strike of tolerance À¢€“ LOL).

    In this connection, I would like to conclude this entry with some relevant historical quotations, which I presume might amuse both of you (and for different reasons À¯ÂÅ ), all of which written by Sir Francis Bacon (1561-1626)

    “Truth can never be reached by just listening to the voice of an authority.”

    “But when I searched, I found no work so meritorious as the discovery and development of the arts and inventions that tend to civilize the life of man.”

    AndÀ¢€¦ to finally, the most remarkable (and rather intriguing) quote by the same gentleman:

    Itaque Deus nunquam edidit miraculum ad atheismum convincendum, quoniam opera eius ordinaria huic rei sufficiunt.

    Note: I do not claim Knowledge of Latin, I just appreciate & would like to learn it.
    As such, I could barely get the À¢€œgist of itÀ¢€Â (From my extremely light À¢€“ very À¢€œearlyÀ¢€Â Latin instruction, along with knowledge of Portuguese, French & Spanish À¢€¦ Yet, IÀ¢€™m attempting to secure an official translation for this quote, which recently À¢€œcaught my eyeÀ¢€Â as it À¢€œscreamed at me from the À¢€œpageÀ¢€Â!


    PART-3 Dnbaiacu did NOT uphold the agreement – Thus Augustus indulges in Rituals À¢€œConstitutional MonarchyÀ¢€Â

    Constitutional Monarchs, on the other hand, are independent of any political party or group, hold no prejudice against any section of the community, and have no place in its policy or program. Consequently, they represent, by definition, impartial symbolic Heads of State above politics, as well as commercial and party segments or affiliations. In essence, the Constitutional Monarch focuses on national unity, history & purpose, thereby honoring all its institutions; and most importantly, he/she remains separate from the Head of the Government which is generally embodied by a À¢€œPrime Minister.À¢€Â Such special role places the King/Queen in a position to provide impartial non-political support in various aspects of public life, while the Head of State falls under the democratic control of the countryÀ¢€™s official Body of Elected officials (parliament or congress)

    You may be aware (or recall) that Brazil conducted a national plebiscite (I believe it took place in 1989) in order to determine whether the country should remain a republic or become a kingdom once again. After years of corruption and a longing for tradition and dignity, as well as À¢€Âroyal solutionÀ¢€Â to confront the fear of succession by BrazilÀ¢€™s southern states, the Brazilian citizens of the time were offered the chance to À¢€œvote for a kingÀ¢€Â. Many had felt that a return to monarchy would be better than the horrible corruption which the country suffered for so long under republican presidents À¢€“ Unfortunately, as you also know, the referendum did not restore the Orleans & Braganca family to the throneÀ¢€¦ As a result, Brazil obtained, instead, lovely presidents such as Mr. Collor de Mello and now Lula (what a name!) À¢€“ LOL

    Finally, to conclude this essay, IÀ¢€™m sure that you À¢€“ Dnbaiacu (as well as Double-Dot, Four-Dot, and any Nameless around) would like to join me (and many others) as I extend to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II and HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh, my congratulations on their Diamond Anniversary Year (the 60th wedding anniversary of the Queen and Duke).


    PART-2 Dnbaiacu did NOT uphold the agreement – Thus Augustus indulges in Rituals À¢€œConstitutional MonarchyÀ¢€Â
    While you praise the merits of Mumbo-jumbo primitive seers in some corners of À¢€œquestionable importanceÀ¢€Â, some of which (in certain areas of Brazil) conduct themselves in disagreeable fashion, by spitting and puffing around, wearing white clothes, in circles, uttering incomprehensible words which are bound to scare any eventual innocent witnessesÀ¢€¦. I elect to uphold the brilliance of a crown and scepter as they are graciously carried with dignity by a proud Monarch, over a red carpet, moving graciously towards an imposing throne, while they are observed by the adoring eyes of the nationÀ¢€™s Peerage, along with its Gentry, and the Leading Representatives of the Middle Classes.

    Indeed, being related to Portuguese (and by default also Brazilian) peerage, cousin of a Baronet and descendant of a Viscountess, I cannot help but uphold these values, which although no longer part of life in either Portugal or Brazil, they remain a significant part of their common culture and popular respect (e.g. Princess Isabel).

    Regarding some of the condescending views of some in Brazil and here in the U.S.A, where one tends to dismiss and/or dislike anything related to a Monarchy, I would like to bring to your attention that all the historical negative aspects of a Kingdom or Empire are inevitably and indubitably associated with YOUR favorite topic À¢€“ Religion. Taking Portugal & France as my first examples (the former until 1821 and the latter up to 1792), these countries were governed by Absolute Monarchies, where the King was held as a À¢€œRepresentative of God on EarthÀ¢€Â!
    Likewise, with the Inquisition in Spain and with the pervasive weight of the Catholic Church upon the Austro-Hungarian Empire, the Kings and Emperors were tainted by association with the nefarious and questionable conduct of clerics, who supported (and in some cases manipulated) a totalitarianism of the Absolute Monarchy, thereby ensuring the À¢€œsubmissionÀ¢€Â of the people to its beliefs. This horrific anachronism survived as recently as 1917 under the Iron Rule of the Russian Romanovs who were thoroughly controlled by the Christian Orthodox ChurchÀ¢€¦ We all know the tragedy which followedÀ¢€¦



    PART-1 Dnbaiacu did NOT uphold the agreement – Thus Augustus indulges in Rituals À¢€œConstitutional MonarchyÀ¢€Â
    Esteemed Dnbaiacu
    I must say that IÀ¢€™m a bit disappointed by your last entry.
    While you start your discussion by À¢€œagreeing to disagreeÀ¢€Â, as I had honorably suggested À¢€“ thatÀ¢€™s what gentlemen & civilized sentient beings generally do À¢€“ you proceed by completely dismissing the very spirit of the Agreement by providing what represents, in essence, a mini-essay on the merits of Religious Rites & Symbolisms, a topic that I consider À¢€œbeneath my considerationÀ¢€Â and À¢€œunworthy of a truly enlightened individualÀ¢€Â, while at the same time concluding your thoughts by dismissing altogether À¢€“ in a single sentence – the rituals of a Constitutional Monarchy (the Opening of Parliament), which I uphold in the highest possible regard!

    As such, I shall retaliate with my very own versionÀ¢€¦
    Firstly, I would like to borrow and quoting your terminology, À¢€œin the end it all comes down to what you chose to believeÀ¢€Â AND admire À¢€“ with THIS I must agree indeed!



    to dnbaiacu from Augustus — Let’s agree to disagree
    Esteemed dnbaiacu
    It’s quite clear that I shall never convince you (nor have I actually tried to do so) about the absolute random, accidental chain of events in the Cosmos…
    Likewise, you shall never EVER even begin to draw my attention to the remote possibility that a Divine being directed matters in the universe for the exclusive benefit of humanity (or any other similar, divinely inspired point of view).

    Esteemed friend, as the repulsion I feel to any thing remotely connected to “divineÀ¢€Â (or related to some “blind faith” or worse yet, submission to the laws of an alleged divine being) is BEYOND the used of acceptable words, lest I may express potentially offensive remarks to those who elect to advocate to such practices, we should just drop this particular issue… It’ beyond description how strongly I feel against any such practices…

    As such, because we are equally convinced about our respective points of view in such radical positions, and because they are so irreconcilable, as to render any debate, utterly futile. I strongly suggest dear dnbaiacu that we just AGREE TO DISAGREE and attempt to have a bare minimum respect to each other’s point of view.

    In order to finalize (and I mean it REALLY terminate) this potentially dangerous subject, in connection to your last remark, of course I have seen documentaries alleging that some US presidents were free-masons (just mambo-jumbo to me, sorry!) IÀ¢€™ve been living in the United States of America for decades, and I heard all types of À¢€œstoriesÀ¢€Â (not to mention have had to deal with the American religious fervor).

    Finally, in the event you want to discuss a “ritual” with me, I will be glad to talk about the Opening of the Olympics, the opening of the British Parliament by her Majesty the Queen, or some coronation and/or Royal Wedding (if any)… That’s my LIMIT of ritualistic interest! No more religion! I hope you are in a position to indulgeÀ¢€¦


    AFTERTHOUGHT BY AUGUSTUS…. Regarding some “agencies” (also surprised by nearly simultaneous entry with Double-Dot)
    All that talk of Marley perturbed me (and still…)
    I failed to mention that Four-Dots overlooked my VERY favorites: The former Soviet KGB (they are still around, Stronger than ever, just bearing a different designation) and the GOOD OLD Brazilian grown SNI (Servico Nacional de Informacoes) – WOW… those were the days to live as a child in Brazil… Of course if you were a member of the elite most issues did not really matter and/or affect you… Yet, I still recall the day when, as a boy, I carried a banned book by HEGEL inside my pants – petrified – LOL (I was so curious… the innocence of youth in the 1970’s)
    Further thoughts on the former KGB – it was the MOST efficient of all of the secret services EVER (short of the Gestapo naturally)


    “DOUBLE” & “FOUR” DOTS (LOL) – (How much I wish you BOTH would ONCE & for all, select a more amiable designation (Marley? / Lennon?) 🙂

    Perhaps twenty five years ago I would have been more in agreement with you… In fact I used to LOVE Bob Marley, particularly during one of my few prolonged visits to the indescribable city of Amsterdam, where I was with a couple of friendsÀ¢€¦ We were staying at a “not-so-respectful” Hostel (room ZERO À¢€“ nowÀ¢€¦ imagine someone like ME in such a place À¢€“ LOL). Well, my dear friends, I simply the experience, and associate it MarleyÀ¢€¦. I just recall listening to his sweet music while I wasÀ¢€¦ how can I put itÀ¢€¦. – completely “OUT THERE” (LOL), along with every other foreigner visiting that FABULOUS City, which, in all fairness is also filled with tons of History & Civilization, not to mention that fact that the United Provinces (as Holland was once called) had always been a great traditional allied of the United Kingdom…

    Anyhow, as I only have fantastic memories of Marley, mostly due to those amazing days “in the clouds” in Amsterdam (in fact, IÀ¢€™m not quite sure where I was most of the time)À¢€¦ I just loved Marley, while I was thereÀ¢€¦ In fact, I could not have helped it, as they were always playing his music at the Hostel, over & over – that’s even how the owners used to forcefully awaken their guests at 10 am: playing Marley’s music BLASTINGÀ¢€¦ SOMEHOW… we managed daily to get out of bed… Looking over at ourselves to certify whether we remained in ONE PIECE À¢€“ LOL)

    Regarding Sir Lennon, I like the lyrics you quoted, albeit conceding that it represents completely unrealistic expectations for the sentient creature called human, and I even do NOT dislike to melody… Yet, as I have ALWAYS strongly disliked that horrid, UGLY wife of his – YOKO, not to mention that famous photo of John & Yoko while they lying in bed during some kind of protest… I just could never, as a result, bring myself to like the rebellious English Knight À¢€“ Sir Lennon…
    Yet (again) Marley… that is a WHOLE other story !!! LOL
    (my goodness, where are my proper manners and gentleman-like countenance ? 8) 😉 )

  • Double-Dot

    [quote]I wish no troubles with M.I 8 or the FBI, RCMP, Interpol or Mossad [/quote]

    You being a member of the exclusive Bilderberg Group, I anticipate no trouble with the (Not so) secret agencies you have listed above.

    [quote]I still insist that many “rock” stars are a vanguard of social conscience and observation…Bob Marley anyone??? [/quote]

    It is time for Lord Augustus to wake up and come back to this century and express his words of wisdom about Rock Stars and Bob Marley. We can not do any further free consulting work for him 🙁

  • ….

    Double Dot, my humblest apologies to my playful nature with your “name”

    I wish no troubles with M.I 8 or the FBI, RCMP, Interpol or Mossad

    I still insist that many “rock” stars are a vanguard of social conscience and observation…Bob Marley anyone??? 😉 😉 😉

  • Double-Dot

    Four Dots
    It is indeed painful to be addressed as Double “Trouble” Dot 😥

    As to your question:[quote]Rock Stars are Poets too, Sim?[/quote]

    Though Lord Augustus may not agree with you, I concur with your intelligent and brilliant observation. You may be pleased to know that I have the CD with this wonderful poem. Late Sir John Lennon was a great singer too.

    P.S: Please do not increase anymore “dot” to your name. My contacts in M.I. 8 have already furnished your true identity 😉

  • ….

    Rock Stars are Poets too, Sim?
    Lord Augustus and Double Trouble Dot, please consider this:

    ….Imagine there’s no Heaven
    It’s easy if you try
    No hell below us
    Above us only sky
    Imagine all the people
    Living for today

    Imagine there’s no countries
    It isn’t hard to do
    Nothing to kill or die for
    And no religion too
    Imagine all the people
    Living life in peace

    You may say that I’m a dreamer
    But I’m not the only one
    I hope someday you’ll join us
    And the world will be as one

    Imagine no possessions
    I wonder if you can
    No need for greed or hunger
    A brotherhood of man …………………..John Lennon, circa 1971


    Once again, I misread the intention (and author) of a previous comment! This time around, I misread Double-dot comments intended for dnbaiacu AS IF they had been from dnbaiacu directed to me to me… LOL

    I even thought, at that time, that I had made dnbaiacu’s error in the misspelling of the illustrious English poet’s name, while I was hastily writing one of the long earlier entries… LOL

    Again, I repeat that I must struggle with Technology every day of my life and unfortunately find myself regretting À¢€“ when I rise from bed in the morning À¢€“ for finding myself existing in this horrific, insipid century every single day… I know… It’s rather sad…

    (the only exception being, I must concede is the blessing of À¢€œair conditioningÀ¢€Â À¢€“ not sure how could anyone survive in NYC during the summer without such devices À¢€“ well, on further reflection, if we were in 1868, as I would have preferred, I would probably be in Devonshire or Kent, if not in London, wouldnÀ¢€™t I? LOL)


    From Augustus to DOUBLE-DOT about alledged Imposter “dot”
    In light of the recent emergence of a possible imposter, would you NOT now consider the possibility of perhaps adopting a more “inspiring” designation, such as “Achilles” or “Caesar” or perhaps even “Alexander”? LOLÀ¢€¦
    Just a suggestion…

    I did realize the impostor (intended or otherwise) did not “sound” like you in any way whatsoever!


    Have you not, dnbaiacu ever made an error? PleaseÀ¢€¦ Would you NOT attempt to À¢€œgive me a breakÀ¢€Â? – using one of my acquired American quiches
    Please take into account that the hastily composed, and relatively long entry you so harshly criticized was typed rather QUICKLY, in between business meetings, during this late afternoon at my office.
    Actually, I was unaware of your claim to perfection?
    NowÀ¢€¦ would you NOT have any comments on the remaining of portions of my views, which were expressly intended for YOU, despite my eager efforts to explain and address all issues questioned before?

  • Double-Dot

    [quote]But you must agree that your quotes from Sir Williams Woodsworth the poet are no more noteworthy than the lyricist King David in Psalms.[/quote]

    Young man, please stop referring to Sir William WORDSWORTH as “WOODSWORTH”. In a few minutes, you may change it to “William WOOLWORTH”, which will unnecessarily arouse the interest of our Swiss adversary who may decide to buy out the “WOOLWORTHS”

  • Double-Dot

    [quote]…..Feed the babies
    Who dont have enough to eat
    Shoe the children
    With no shoes on their feet
    House the people
    Livin in the street
    Oh, oh, theres a solution….

    Steve Miller, rock musician circa 1975[/quote]

    Twas not me either, Lord Augustus. I suggest we designate him as Four-Dots.

    I am in utter disbelief that “Four-Dots” had to bring in a “rock” musician of the 20 th century into the topic under discussion. However, after scrutinizing his comments with my customary thoroughness, I tend to agree with this Steven Miller.


    ESTEMEED dnbaiacu (I will never get used to YOUR name – LOL LOL LOL – the things such name tend to “suggest” -LOL)

    Firstly, I STRONGLY feel that in our Planet, as well as in any other world where the rare event called À¢€œLIFEÀ¢€Â may have emerged, such process resulted primarily of random forces which are TYPICAL of a CHAOTIC forces resulting form an IMMENSIVELY violet and catastrophic universe.

    IÀ¢€™m thoroughly convinced that NOTHING happened by designed, but rather the results of an AMAZING, rare, and coincidental series of steps and/or events.

    Our solar system was formed about 4.7 billion years ago, Proto-Earth about 4.6 billion years ago, until Thea, a then very close planet which nearly shared our orbit, hit the Proto Earth, temporarily generating a Saturn-Like ring, which eventually consolidated into what today we call the Moon. Had we NEVER had a moon and had Thea never hit the Proto-Earth, our planet would have been way too small to have sufficient gravity to hold on to whichever atmosphere it could formÀ¢€¦. In addition, the moon, once in place, permitted a more stable orbit without less frequent À¢€œwobblingÀ¢€Â of the planetary axisÀ¢€¦

    Apparently microbial life was formed circa 3.8 billion years ago, and would have remained as such À¢€“ just microbial life – until today (as IÀ¢€™m CERTAIN to be the case in many other Extra-solar planets of our Universe), had the Earth NOT undergone two long periods when it was completely frozen À¢€“ often referred to as À¢€œSnow-Ball EarthÀ¢€Â À¢€“ this rare even happened about 3 billion and then again 600 million years agoÀ¢€¦ Each time it happened, the RESULTING life (in the oceans) was significantly more sophisticated than before, and surely after the Second Snow ball Earth visible critters started walking around at the bottom of the earth, a that was the À¢€œofficial beginningÀ¢€Â of what became every thing we know on this Rock called Terra: from Dinosaurs, to Elephants, insects, and, yes primates À¯ƒÂ  various higher monkeys À¯ƒÂ  chimpanzees À¯ƒÂ  humansÀ¢€¦

    Now that an À¢€œequivalent processÀ¢€Â could easily have happened in another world where the gravity is 2g (instead of 1g), and atmosphere of liquid hydrogen, where the temperature is about À¢€“ 100 Fahrenheit, under pressures any human could not withstandÀ¢€¦ Yet, some form of life could EASILY have emerged into such a hypothetical world, due to its own very series of accidents and catastrophic galactic events, which could easily lead to a totally distinct type of life whichÀ¢€¦ under the appropriate conditions.. for THEM, even intenteligent life could ALSO emerge À¢€“ naturally TOTALLY DIFFERENT from anything we could recognizeÀ¢€¦

    As for the À¢€œEVENTSÀ¢€Â you described in BahiaÀ¢€¦ and the like, I must remind you that I grew up in Rio de Janeiro SURROUNDED by such absurdities which our servant advocated (and even one of my Grand mother and Grand Aunt = to my utter shock joined in). As so, I DO know EXACTLY what you are talking aboutÀ¢€¦. IÀ¢€™m afraid.
    To this I make comparison to the ancient Prophets and/or Seers in Ancient Greece, who allegedly possessed magical powersÀ¢€¦ Simply put, I believe that certain elements of the human population are slightly ahead along the evolutionary path, and are in a position to access certain extra-senses, which primitive cultures, when observing them in action, cannot help but to attribute to one type of Divinity OR ANOTHERÀ¢€¦
    ItÀ¢€™s natural for primitive civilizations and/or ignorant individuals to make such an automatic association, as they À¢€œcould not know any betterÀ¢€Â

    Regarding WordsworthÀ¢€¦ quotation, I will not stop admire the beautiful lines and /or words which mention God in the same way I would love them (actually more) if they mentioned JUPITER or APOLLO = À¯ÂÅ 

    Enough for now À¯ÂÅ 

  • ….

    …..Feed the babies
    Who dont have enough to eat
    Shoe the children
    With no shoes on their feet
    House the people
    Livin in the street
    Oh, oh, theres a solution….

    Steve Miller, rock musician circa 1975


    to dnbaiacu -remarks from Augustus
    Naturally you are entitled to say or think whatever you desire… and should be respected for your convictions, provided your views and remarks remain À¢€œrelatively respectfulÀ¢€Â as it has been the case so far.

    Yet, I do NOT refute or repent what I previously stated above!
    In fact, IÀ¢€™m exceedingly proud of most of my ancestors and what the glorious European (and even Colonial) Past they represent (although some aspects thereof are considered objectionable, when examined under the prism of Modern moralityÀ¢€¦

    As for your quotation of psalmsÀ¢€¦ I would rather you consider sparing of it going forward, as such À¢€œfablesÀ¢€Â will always fall on deaf ears from these quartersÀ¢€¦ since IÀ¢€™m a radical atheist, and would never consider observing current Mythology of whatever persuasionÀ¢€¦

    Good Luck

  • forrest allen brown

    tit for tat
    import laws along with export also .

    countries should stop trying to defend there own countries business by over tax on imports
    as most things are built every where and you are only protecting
    the big business money makers


    The Swiss Visitor goes on & on AND ON… AD INFINITUM! — His attempts to involve “native (South) Americans.. Enough Already!
    The influence of native (South) Americans in Brazil, is unfortunately, not as significant as in Peru or Bolivia, or even Chile; and precisely due to the impact from some of MY ancestors, as you rightly put it; as they were unfortunately not exposed to Late 20th, Early 21st centuries politically-correct thoughts and ideals, and, therefore, took misfortunate, questionable steps which, in the long run triggered the gradual elimination of the vast majority of the native tribes located in areas where the most important centers of Brazilian modern society currently exists, namely: the Southeastern, Southern, and pockets of Northeastern regions. Most the surviving tribes, those which were lucky to remain concealed from European explorers, currently reside within the deep Amazon basin, and, as such, isolatedÀ¢€¦ Consequently, the significance of your (customary) nefarious remarks lack foundation.

    As a Brazilian with Iberian-Italic background, with relatively special connections, I trust being entitled to recognize and criticize the conduct of colonialist practices; thus I fail to see any objection to my observations or being the source thereof.

    As for the À¢€œmost important segments of my direct ancestorsÀ¢€Â, if they were to be examined in comparison to yours – ch-c – I strongly suspect that the distinction found would be strikingÀ¢€¦ Many of mine actually lived in manor houses À¢€¦ Would yours perhaps, may I further conjecture, have any remote connections with À¢€œplowing the fieldsÀ¢€Â of some obscure Swiss community?

  • ch.c.

    “failed to generate the most basic agreement, in view of the alarming Food Crisis plaguing the planet, whereby millions are either starving on in the brink of going hungry! ”
    Somewhat right !
    Why then is Brazil, the apparent world food garden, not making bilateral deals with these countries ????

    Simple : these countries DONT WANT. Such as India….your great friends. If you read as to what happens India wants to protect
    THEIR farmers, and dont want to be inundated with foreign foods, regardless if they come fron the EU, USA or……BRAZIL.
    And the same is for most countries where there is HUNGER ….SADLY !!!
    Sudan, Somalia, North Korea, Haiti just to name 3
    Better yet these countries EXPECT NOT TO PAY BUT TO RECEIVE EITHER FOOD DONATIONS OR LOANS TO PAY FOR THESE FOODS….WITH CHEAP INTERESTS RATES…..OF COURSE. And as we all know some of these loans are not even getting repaid.
    And Brazil, THE WORLD FOOD GARDEN is not willing to help or give anything…of course !

    An amazing but true story was when Morales in Bolivia was elected and asked that his country debts should be cancelled.
    Of course Bin the Crook said yesss….Bolivia foreign debts should be cancelled, and pressured the World Bank to do so.
    Ohhhh yesssssss….but but but Bin the Crook was NOT willing to include the Bolivia debts to…..BRAZIL…..of course.

    And the same for ALL NON INDIANS Brazilians….by definition !!!!
    And the descendants of what you call these colonialists are not doing any differently TODAY…..if you would dare to read what is happening on a daily basis !!!!!
    Yessssss….these descendants continue to steal the land of the Indians and kill many of them… 90 % with total impunity….of course, and with the verbal blessing from the Brazilian Supreme Court of INjustice…..since very very very few killers ever end up in jail.
    Better yet when a killer ADMIT their crimes, they go in jail for ONE year or so, and then they are freed…by the highest Brazilian Courts.
    You should read more first about Brazilian HISTORY AND PRESENT…. and think twice.
    Look no further but to Sister Dorothy killing.

    And JAY GLENN is dead right. Under what reasoning are the Iphones and Ipods the World Most Expensive in….BRAZIL ?????
    Costing 60 to 100 % MORE than in developed or many others developing countries ????
    Thus one must understand…that Brazil is VERY CLOSED to FOREIGN GOODS. Even from goods coming from EMERGING countries.
    More funny is that neither the Iphones nor the Ipods are built in the USA or EU but in….ASIA !!!! Hey hey.
    Better yet 3 years ago Brazil requested China to refrain to export too much textiles to Brazil.
    And guess what means “too much” in the Brazilian view ! The Chinese textiles exports TO BRAZIL amounted to AROUND US$ 250 MILLION PER YEAR reprensiting…..ONE PERCENT of the Brazilian textile industry. THAT WAS….. TOO MUCH….AS PER BIN THE CROOK !!!

    But Jay is somewhat wrong for Dell. They recently set up an assembly line in Brazil. And only in the case their is a manufacturing or assembly plant located in Brazil….do Brazilians not eliminate import taxes…but reduce them.
    And the same is just as true for cars, trucks, harvesters, etc etc. Yesss the filthy Brazilian laws say that if 60 % of a product is built inside Brazil then these products will get a reduced TAX !!!
    Guess what would happen if Brazil would be more open ? Cars could be made in Germany, France, Italy…..or CHINA.
    Quite strange that the same car model in many instances are more expensive in BRAZIL….. WHEN BUILT IN BRAZIL….THAN IN THE UK WHEN IMPORTED FROM…..CONTINENTAL EUROPE !!!!!!
    You can even look inside Mercosur. Cars made in Argentina are cheaper than in Brazil. But Brazil by an agreement they of course refused to change when Argentina requested it, allows Brazil to sell 2,5 times more cars or automotive spare parts to Argentina, than Argentina can sell to Brazil !!!!

    Hmmmmm more filthy than Brazili…there is NOT !!


    Information on Daffodils
    I was not familiar with this particular work and honestly have a very light understand of a variety of selected authors, as opposed to claiming expertise in any of them. Because I literally worship a particular time period (1799-1832), which includes, in its entirety, the Regency Era in the United Kingdom, I naturally came across a great variety of magnificent scholars, of which the period is significantly noted.

    All this explanation just to answer your simple direct questions… LOL
    There is no particular work of him bearing this name, but itÀ¢€™s the subject of an apparently significant piece – called “I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud” as it’s available in two volumes.

    Furthermore I located a small segment containing the quotation to which you may have specifically referred, namely:’
    ” all at once I saw a crowd, a host, of golden daffodils, beside the lake, beneath the trees”

    Thanks for the kind words… even if undeserving.

    I Wandered Lonely as a Cloud

  • ..

    [quote]William Wordsworth (1770-1850)[/quote]

    Thanks for your clarification. If my failing memory recalls: Didn’t Bill Wordsworth write a poem about Daffodils?

    Cant believe that there is another well read Brazilian in this thread. You make us proud. Just continue demonstrating your strong personality. A good leader in making.


    LET the people purchase what they want.
    Let Brazil citizens buy dell, compact, sony computers with out paying $100’s of dollars tariff.


    Augustus answers for two unidentified entries (..) possible whom I call “Double_Dot”
    Although I’m exceedingly eager with the few pieces I’ve read from Lord Byron, I’m afraid to disappoint you, but it’s not the case.

    The author is nearly a contemporary of the former, but preceed him by a few decades.
    These lines were composed by one of England’s greatest poets at the Late XVIII, early XIX century England – they were written by William Wordsworth (1770-1850)

  • ..

    [quote]À¢€œGod save thee, ancient Marinere!
    From the fiends that plague thee thusÀ¢€¦À¢€Â
    ———À¯ƒÂ  (Mariner) [/quote]

    I think it was Homer. Odyssey ?, Iliad ? Just curious.

  • ..

    [quote]À¢€œThe Ice was here, the Ice was there,
    The Ice was all around:
    It crackˢ۪d and growlˢ۪d, and roarˢ۪d and howlˢ۪d
    Like noises of a swoundÀ¢€Â
    ———À¯ƒÂ  (swooned)

    À¢€œGod save thee, ancient Marinere!
    From the fiends that plague thee thusÀ¢€¦À¢€Â
    ———À¯ƒÂ  (Mariner) [/quote]

    A beautiful quote. Who said it? Was it Lord Byron?


    Regrettable Conclusion – Understandable concerns À¢€“ Fateful ConsequencesÀ¢€¦ (by Augustus Severus)
    While extremely disappointing, the failure of yet another attempt to overcome differences initiated in Doha nearly seven years ago (at the outset of this À¢€œFateful RoundÀ¢€Â), and without the full knowledge of its details, I must firstly express a certain understanding for the reluctance of emerging economies such as China and India (some of which shared by Brazil) vis-ÀƒÂ -vis three to four centuries of European (and later North American) predominance, not to mention their colonial proclivitiesÀ¢€¦

    On the other hand, itÀ¢€™s very hard to comprehend how the main players of the World Economy (both the traditional as well as the recently emerging À¢€œPowerhousesÀ¢€Â) failed to generate the most basic agreement, in view of the alarming Food Crisis plaguing the planet, whereby millions are either starving on in the brink of going hungry!

    IÀ¢€™m afraid I must admit that such results are beyond À¢€œdisappointÀ¢€Â, but nearly criminalÀ¢€¦

    Finalizing my views borrowing some noble À¢€œwordsÀ¢€Â of an ancient scholar:

    À¢€œThe Ice was here, the Ice was there,
    The Ice was all around:
    It crackˢ۪d and growlˢ۪d, and roarˢ۪d and howlˢ۪d
    Like noises of a swoundÀ¢€Â
    ———À¯ƒÂ  (swooned)

    À¢€œGod save thee, ancient Marinere!
    From the fiends that plague thee thusÀ¢€¦À¢€Â
    ———À¯ƒÂ  (Mariner)

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